Red SS Barchetta

I am a long time poster on both LS1 and LS2 - I read a lot over here but don't post a whole lot.
Some time ago I decided to do a heads/cam/headers on my 14,000 mile 98 SS. After quite a bit of research, I finally decided to go with the PP S2 heads, mainly because some people on this board were getting good results and the price was fairly good.
I purchased the heads and parts last fall (probably around October). It was my winter project on weekends to do the swap. I finished in March and first drove the car in April.
My mods are TR 224 cam, FLP long tube, LS6 intake, ASP UD, PP S2 98 heads. I have a M6 car. Everything worked well and the car ran great. I heat cycle the springs several times and have only gotten "on the car" one time, but pampered it since it is not yet dyno tuned (scheduled for this upcoming friday).
I was driving the car last week and out of the blue, the car starts running like it is only running on 4 cylinders........the car made it home (barely).
After much checking for possible loose electrical connectors, it started to look like a mechanical problem.
Yesterday I took off the valve covers and lo and behold, a broken valve spring!! The car has less than 150 miles of very mild driving on it. (see post on LS2 under Mad Max). This is absolutely the worst quality I can imagine for my cherry 98 SS..............
Now I have to spend 150.00 for a tool to change the springs on the car - AND, there is no way I'm putting any other Patriot Performance spring back on this car.
My question is, what other dual spring is the best, and will I need new retainers too? It just makes me sick.

VINCE

iTrader: (1)

That sucks man. Are these the NEW Gold Springs?

1QWIKZ

iTrader: (6)

crane makes nice dual springs

Mike K.

the cranes are good and the comp 921 are also good, yes you will need new retainers if the springs are different. Don't worry your issues could be alot worse, Just swap the springs and you'll be good to go.

Red SS Barchetta

No they are not the Gold springs. Actually it was about this time when they were having issues with the valve seals. I don't mean to bad mouth them, but I just can't imagine springs made so poorly that they did not even last 200 miles with a moderate lift cam. As a "reputable company", I think they should research these things more before selling to people to install on their cars. I know they did not make the springs, but they assembled the heads. They should have at least contacted the people who bought their older heads with the junk springs and offered the new ones even if the old ones were still working.
Like they say, you get what you pay for. Which brings me back to now - I am going to put on the best spring I can, so this does not happen again.

Beast96Z

iTrader: (21)

If you purchased your heads last fall, then you probablly have a set of the old deffective springs. Patriot replaced springs for alot of people for free, and it was all over the board. If you read the boards alot, you'd think you would've saw it. All you have to do is call Terry@ Patriot and I'm sure he will send you some of the new springs and valve seals for free.

CHRISPY

Sounds like a spring problem.

Were these the gold PP springs or the older version?

Did you call Patriot about this when it happened or post here first? I am sure they would help you out if you contact them.

Chris

Chris

Beast96Z

iTrader: (21)

BTW, Patriots new "gold" spring is one of the best, if not the best, dual replacement spring on the market right now.

foff667

iTrader: (2)

from what i remember they were interfering with the rockers and thats why they were breaking...Terry was pretty kewl about the whole thing with most and probably wouldve sent you new springs if you had spoken to him and since they werent yet installed on the car wouldve been a sinch to replace. Hindsight is always 20/20 though.

lata
Bill

Scalpel

iTrader: (4)

You don't need a $150 tool to replace the spring. You can get one for around $25 and use the TDC method to remove the spring.

However, I'd replace all the springs.

Patriot is very good at getting all their replacement pieces out to their customers, though.

Tally TransAm

iTrader: (17)

as an "educated consumer" you should look on the boards for updates and news regarding the products you purchase. would you have done that you would have known that there was a problem with the original springs and they were replaced for free by terry. im sure you could have found plenty of time to change them out before you even started the car for the first time. and you can make your own spring tool for free.

i also dont think a broken spring is a "MAJOR PROBLEM"

im also willing to bet you didnt attempt to contact terry about the problem before posting it here and knocking their reputation as a "reputable company"

mike m

iTrader: (6)

wow that sucks. Im suprised you didnt see all of the bad posts about the springs. Im sure Terry will replace all of your springs and retainers. keep us posted on your results. And check to see your rocker arms arent hitting the springs.

distortion_69

iTrader: (20)

I've heard that a few spring manufacturers are backordered with duals. It could take a while to get them. I'd definately call Patriot and see what they can do for you.

Josh

Caveman

iTrader: (2)

Lots of bad posts about Patriot heads. You never see bad things about Absolute, TEA or MTI. Just makes you wonder.

foff667

iTrader: (2)

what can ya say? **** happens...everyone and their mother knew there was an interferance problem with the origonal dual springs...check jmx's sight he even explains with some duals clearancing rockers is needed...if people dont do the research things break...as far as patriot heads having alot of bad posts everything that patriot WAS having problems with is now fixed...before i installed my heads i started hearing about the valve seals and sent my heads back to terry and he fixed the issue before their WAS an issue in my car with no problems he even paid for to & from shipping. I think they run a very good buisness and make a good product at a good price. Im sorry to hear of Red SS's issues but these issues were discussed even before patriot had the problems on their heads and shouldve not been looked over before hand.

Red SS Barchetta

I just found the problem last night - I am not trying to "smear" their name. But I do consider dual valve springs that broke with less than 200 miles a "major probem". Luckily (I hope), the valve never contacted the top of the piston, or I would really be in deep water.
After I made the decision to purchase the heads, I pretty much was off the tech boards as I had researched all I needed for the build I had decided on.
The heads themselves and whether or not they were a good value was never a question in my mind (that is why I bought them), but had I known that they had a problem with these springs, I would have changed them before I put them on the car for just this reason.
I just want to make sure the replacement springs are the best quality so this does not occur again. If PP has those springs - fine.
I have not contacted them as of yet (they were probably closed by the time I discovered the problem). My other problem is I have a dyno tune scheduled for friday at LS1speed - I would really like to have this fixed by then.
The reason I posted this is so that if someone else has these heads with these springs, they might change them before they break and cause a major malfunction.

foff667

iTrader: (2)

i completely sympathise with you...just most that watch this board have known about all the issues theyve had in the past...like im sure you knew about the valve issues that came before the spring issues because you probably did alot of research right? And that those problems were fixed...then a couple of people had interference with the larger than stock diameter dual springs so they changed those with a spring of their own the gold duals, then the seal problem which theyve since switched to viton seals...like i said Its been covered on this board as well as JMX's how to site, thought thanks for the heads up to the people that didnt know about a 8 month old problem thats since been fixed.

SilverSurfer

Fluffy, why are jumping all over this guy? You sympathize but then you get all sarcastic? So it's Red's fault for not having done his homework not Patriot's, huh? So aside from the valve, the spring and the seal issues when these heads were first introduced (and many months after) at such a great price to the LS1 community, Patriots are great heads? Yeah great heads, well at least the castings were great. LOL

I see you're looking for gears now. Guess the tuning issue's all fixed. So when are we racing? Or did you forget. LOL

TVWilkes

Call me tuesday,we will replace your broken springs.The older non gold springs was a problem.The gold spring is the best spring on the market,IMO,quality second to none.We will get this resolved for you.

C5 Forever

Speaking of great casting. How thick are the decks on Patriots?