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I'm planning my cam swap for my 01 WS6, 6 speed car, 4:10 rear. I've been reading threads for the last few days, and making a list of parts.
I have a cam I bought used from lemons12 and 3 years later still haven't installed lol. Specs are 226/228 .588 .588 114.
I have a FAST 102 and NW 102 TB waiting to go on, 1 7/8" Speed Engineering headers and y pipe are on the way, and the car has a Magnaflow cat back.
My plans for this car have been to keep it a mildly modified daily driver I will occasionally autocross, so I'm not building something I'll be drag racing every weekend.
At the time I grabbed the cam because it seems like a good grind and being used, I can always get my money back if I decide on a different one. I was initially thinking I'd get some springs, push rods, and timing set and that would be it. But after some reading I'm convinced I should replace the lifters, and might as well upgrade the oil pump. Since the heads are coming off, I'll probably throw some rings and bearings in it. (Everything snowballs lol)
Here's what I'm thinking. Before I drop the money I figured I'd see if anyone thinks I should do something different.
BTR .660 Platnum springs with Ti retainers
COMP CAM LS1/LS2 HEX-A-JUST TIMING CHAIN SET 3158KT
Trick Flow Timing Chain Dampener K30675600
BTR 3/8"pushrods. (Gonna have heads off so might as well make 3/8"s fit)
Staub bronze bushing trunion upgrade
Stock replacement head gaskets and bolts.
Mellings 10295 oil pump
Powerbond UD pulley
After reading up on lifters, my thoughts are:
Morel 5315 with new trays. Cheap, better than LS7, downside is they still use trays. Should be ok with the rest of the valve train.
Morel 5290, supposedly about the same as 5315s but use link bars. The extra cost isn't bad for getting rid of the trays.
Johnson 2116LSR, better than Morel 5290s, and cheaper than other link bar Morels. I'm ok with the price if these lifters would be the best choice.
I'm not apposed to selling the cam and getting a complete cam kit if for some reason a different grind might be better.
I don't want to spend unnecessary money that could be spent elsewhere, but I'm willing to spend it where it's worth spending for longevity of the parts.
I rarely take my own advice that I'm about to give you but their are times I regret being gung-ho with my rebuilds.
Generally, a lower mileage motor doesn't need a complete rebuild. I've taken motors apart with 80k that had perfect bearings and healthy rings. I've taken apart motors with 250k miles that had a fantastic bottom end and brittle rings. I always rebuild both just to play it safe but a healthy motor with healthy rings can probably get away with lifters and trays.
The only time I'd suggest a complete rebuild of the bottom end is if you were refreshing the top end (valve job) and you have higher mileage.
I rarely take my own advice that I'm about to give you but their are times I regret being gung-ho with my rebuilds.
Generally, a lower mileage motor doesn't need a complete rebuild. I've taken motors apart with 80k that had perfect bearings and healthy rings. I've taken apart motors with 250k miles that had a fantastic bottom end and brittle rings. I always rebuild both just to play it safe but a healthy motor with healthy rings can probably get away with lifters and trays.
The only time I'd suggest a complete rebuild of the bottom end is if you were refreshing the top end (valve job) and you have higher mileage.
Yeah I'm more concerned about condition than mileage. I'm a tech and I've seen engines break right off the lot, and I've seen stuff last 300k and run like new.
This car does have 170k miles though, so I figure with the heads off and cam out, rings and bearings are cheap if I don't need any machine work. The car runs fine though.
Overall, your list looks pretty good. Personally, I'm with you - don't go chintzy on lifters. They're too much of a pain to get back out if there's a problem. You did mention 3/8" pushrods as well. Good man! Go with the largest OD you can to minimize / eliminate deflection. On the retainers, keepers, and valves, if you are upgrading stuff, go as light as your budget can afford. General rule, you want heavy on the lifter side and light ont he valve side.
You can save some money by NOT getting the hexadjust and just getting the cloyes 3220 LS2 timing set for $38 at o'reilly's.
On the cam specs itself, it's a decent mid-range cam. Since you're already geared, you might find that you could use a bit larger cam. Something in the 227/232 range like cam motion titan 4 or BTR stage 2. A couple degrees makes a big difference. Once you get much above 230, you start seeing diminishing returns - meaning you give up a lot to gain a little. Vey highly recommend cam motion, as you get the cam Dr printout with the cam. It won't be more than 0.25 degrees off on anything, and it's rarely that far off. So, you won't need the hexadjust anyway.
Get an adjustable pushrod and actually measure your pushrod lengths. Don't guess at length. This will save you a ton of trouble later on.
Last, on your exhaust. Make sure your merge is parallel and not angular like this one. if it looks like this, it will rob power and cause detonation:
I think I'll go with the Johnson 2116LSR lifters. The extra money isn't much for the peace of mind, unless someone thinks it's just a total waste over one of the cheaper options for what my goals are.
Getting Ti retainers for the springs is a no brainer. I don't want to touch the heads or valves. At that point I might as well look at getting after market heads, and if I was gonna do that, I might as well get a stroker kit lol.
I hadn't seen that Cloyes timing set. Saving money there would be nice if I don't need the adjust-ability.
Over all the years reading on here, I never noticed much about Cam Motion cams. That Titan 4 might be a good choice. Especially if they are accurate enough that I don't need an adjustable timing set. I don't want to go too big on the cam, but I don't really want to leave power on the table if a slightly bigger cam will still be good in a street car I drive a lot. I think selling my cam and saving on the cheaper timing set would almost cover the cost of the new cam.
I've got adjustable push rods, so I'll for sure measure for the right length.
I like to fab and was planning to build my own y pipe, but the Speed Engineering one is cheap so I just went a head and got it too. It looks like it merges nicely. I think I'll cut the end off where the cat back pipe slips on and step it up to 4" and ad a 4" I pipe to the cat back.
I think I'll go with the Johnson 2116LSR lifters. The extra money isn't much for the peace of mind, unless someone thinks it's just a total waste over one of the cheaper options for what my goals are.
Good choice. Make sure you follow through with your plan and measure good and carefully for pushrod length. Don't just take stab at 7.450" or something and toss them in.
Getting Ti retainers for the springs is a no brainer. I don't want to touch the heads or valves. At that point I might as well look at getting after market heads, and if I was gonna do that, I might as well get a stroker kit lol.
I hear you there, but I do find that spending the money on heads and valvetrain ends up being worth it. If you're not planning to rev into the 7000's, you're probably fine
Over all the years reading on here, I never noticed much about Cam Motion cams. That Titan 4 might be a good choice. Especially if they are accurate enough that I don't need an adjustable timing set. I don't want to go too big on the cam, but I don't really want to leave power on the table if a slightly bigger cam will still be good in a street car I drive a lot. I think selling my cam and saving on the cheaper timing set would almost cover the cost of the new cam.
If you start asking around, you'll see that cammotion is really gaining in popularity. I challenge you to find a bad review. I know that Martin Smallwood switched over to using CM, and I've seen a couple of Mamo builds also using CM cams (me included). AS to cam specs, overall, I find that 227-231 is about the sweet spot for intake duration. Beyond that, you start giving up a lot to gain a little. There is a Titan 5, which is 232/238-113+4, but that will have a lot of overlap, and it's a big jump from the 227/232-113+4 of the titan 4. Kip will grind you a custom cam as well, so if you decided you wanted something like (and i'm totally making this up) 230/236-114+4, it's no trouble for him. And yes, his cams are that accurate. if you want to see the polish and grind quality, check my avatar...
If it is a street car, stick to mostly OEM Style parts, like OEM strength springs and OEM cam lobe profiles. Do not use big lifts, big compression, big clearance parts. Big duration is fine (it doesn't affect longevity, only drivability, and I dont care about that so much) That way you maintain reliability and longevity. All it takes is one of those parts, like a super stiff valvespring, to ruin your daily driver status.
With a sub .600 lift cam, I would just use .600 rated single beehive valvesprings and leave the rest of the valvetrain stock.
That was kind of my initial plan, but it's like if I'm gonna do this, I might as well do that, and so on lol.
If I could get away with this cam, beehive springs, and stock everything else, that would be great. I might put it in my GTA instead and get all this other stuff for the '01.
.600 lift springs like the PAC1218s usually don't have enough open pressure to bend the factory pushrods, break the stock timing chain, damage the stock lifters, etc.
Guys have ran low 8s on stock valvetrain thanks to a small cam and low pressure springs, something I hope to do this year. I have a few thousand miles on my stock valvetrain combo, small springs and a 218/218 cam. I made 700whp/800wtq on medium boost pump gas. Haven't been on the dyno yet at high boost. Stock lifters, rockers, pushrods, timing chain, gears, trays, oil pump, etc.
.600 lift springs like the PAC1218s usually don't have enough open pressure to bend the factory pushrods, break the stock timing chain, damage the stock lifters, etc.
Guys have ran low 8s on stock valvetrain thanks to a small cam and low pressure springs, something I hope to do this year. I have a few thousand miles on my stock valvetrain combo, small springs and a 218/218 cam. I made 700whp/800wtq on medium boost pump gas. Haven't been on the dyno yet at high boost. Stock lifters, rockers, pushrods, timing chain, gears, trays, oil pump, etc.
Nice. Well maybe since the 01 is high mileage I'll replace everything and use the bigger cam. The engine in my GTA only has 55k, so I'd be a little more comfortable using my current cam in that with all stock parts and behive springs.
I'm also building a turbo 5.3 so a small cam with stock parts on that one would be great too.
The lift does not necessarily determine what spring to run. For example I would never run a 1218 with a XER lobe and those lobes came in around .588 lift. Johnson's 2110 lifters are a good choice and I think that 226/228 cam is fine. 3/8 push rods are over kill, some Manton 11/32 would be more then enough. LS6 oild pump is a solid piece, LS2 chain/trays, and stock replacement chain gears is also plenty... get some 1 7/8 headers and ditch the y pipe exhaust in favor of TD's.
The lift does not necessarily determine what spring to run. For example I would never run a 1218 with a XER lobe and those lobes came in around .588 lift. Johnson's 2110 lifters are a good choice and I think that 226/228 cam is fine. 3/8 push rods are over kill, some Manton 11/32 would be more then enough. LS6 oild pump is a solid piece, LS2 chain/trays, and stock replacement chain gears is also plenty... get some 1 7/8 headers and ditch the y pipe exhaust in favor of TD's.
I'm with you on the XER, except I wouldn't run one period. I much prefer a 53-55 degree ramp rate. 3/8 are cheaper than 11/32, so if they fit, why not?
I agree...53 lobe is agressive as I would go for a street car. If that 226/228 cam is a XER lobe then yes I would swap it for a Titan 4 or 227/231. did not realize 3/8 were cheaper. Is that including the cost to drill the heads to make them fit?
I agree...53 lobe is agressive as I would go for a street car. If that 226/228 cam is a XER lobe then yes I would swap it for a Titan 4 or 227/231. did not realize 3/8 were cheaper. Is that including the cost to drill the heads to make them fit?
04-23-2016, 09:05 AM
Cam upgrade. Your thoughts on my parts list? 
