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Cam recommendation, emphasis on valvetrain/spring friendly lobes and drivability
So I have been kicking around the idea of tossing a cam in my '00 FRC C5 with a 6 speed, stock 3.42 rear. Car is a daily driver on nice days. Currently has longtubes, catless x-pipe, Z06 Ti catback, 3" cutouts, LS6 intake manifold, zip tie mod intake box, and LS6 blue valve springs (all recently installed). It drives like stock and makes ok power but when is that ever enough?
I had a 228R cam in my LQ4 E39 BMW and learned a WHOLE lot about what I do and don't want in a cam.
Absolute top must haves:
Valvetrain reliability. On my old setup a broken aftermarket single beehive PAC spring caused a valve to drop, breaking the piston and putting a rod through the block. That caused me a lot of headache and unnecessary cost, so I am avoiding this at all costs. I will gladly sacrifice peak and or midrange power/torque for a design that will ensure long valvespring life with little to no maintenance. Seeing as my engine has not been opened for 108K miles, I'm running original 2000 lifters, pushrods, etc.
Valvespring Compatibility: As mentioned before the valve springs were replaced with GM OEM LS6 units just a month or so ago. I do not want to have to replace the valve springs, either.
Driveability. Must drive like stock, or damn near close to it. I don't mind a choppy idle, ran a 112LSA on the 228R and liked the chop. I am trying to stay far, far away from low speed bucking, idle surge problems, etc. I realize much of this is related to the skill of the tuner, but the cam choice will directly affect driveability. Again as this is a daily car I want to be able to putter it around in the city where I work, without hating how it drives. Ease of tuning is a big factor as well.
Power: Yes, last on the list is power - a 30-40whp bump would be nice, but I am fine with sacrificing peak power in order to hold fast to the above items. Being primarily a street car I only take it to the strip maybe once a year, the rest is street driving, highway blasts, and back roads.
Some folks have recommended the venerable GM Hot Cam - yes, it's dated, but seems to meet my criteria so far.
The gear change would give some "seat of the pant" umph...
Consider a 206/216 or 212/218 @ .55x range, they would be fine with LS6 springs, drive nice, lots of torque, easy tune, bump in hp. A lot of people don't understand how a "small" cam just kicked their ***
Well you're not gonna have many options as far as cam selection with those valvesprings. GM hotcam or the LS9 cam are about the biggest you're gonna be able to run either way. The hotcam is a 219/228 .525/.525 112 LSA so the idle will be more noticeable since it has more overlap. The LS9 cam is a 211/230 .558/.552 122 LSA. Both can be had for dirt cheap.
I just put a gmpp hot cam in my 1999 m6 firehawk and ported the stock 853 heads myself. I put down 391 hp. and 391 tq. It has a great long flat tq. curve which makes it a lot of fun on the street. Before the cam I put down 330 hp. And 340 tq.
Check out the btr "truck" cams. They are designed to work with LS6 springs. The stage 3 is a 218/224 .553/.553 113+3
It's should make a a tad more tourqe and idle better than the hotcam.
Take a look at our low lift cams. We designed the specifically to work with LS6 blue springs. 212/218 would be perfect for what your doing, or if you give us a call we can go over a few things and custom grind you one.
FYI the LS9 is not a drop in cam for your application. It would require a lot of other parts to make it work. Not worth it.
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There are a lot of good options, EPS grinds are known to be good on valvetrain and making good power. I am sure Martin Smallwood, BTR, Cam Motion, Ed Curtus, or Texas Speed would all be able to spec a great cam for your application. As stated above Ls9 cam would require some work and I think you would be more happy with a 02+ls6 cam or gmpp hot cam if your looking to stick with a "stock"/or gm ground cam. If you are willing to upgrade the springs you could make more power while still maintaining good drive-ability with good tune, by going with a little larger camshaft, (especially if you are thinking of changing rearend gearing.)
Duration at .050 - 220/224
Lift with 1.7 - .544/.527
Lobe separation 116
Intake center line 113
Usable RPM Range 2000-6000
Your 228/228 - 112 LSA cam had 4 degrees of overlap. Most would say it's a cake walk to tune (but I'm not a tuner). This cam has -10 degrees of overlap, should have zero issues like you described with you previous cam, and is honestly about as big as an off-the-shelf grind for LS6 springs gets. Sure you could go custom, but for your modest goal, this would work well.
Last edited by hammertime; 05-06-2016 at 07:53 AM.
Most GT 2-3 cam owners are happy with the power and manners from the Lingenfelter peice
I'm loving the small cam thread everyone has their own idea of what would be best. I thought about the gt 2-3 but doesn't that cam require a more aggressive spring than an LS6?
I'm loving the small cam thread everyone has their own idea of what would be best. I thought about the gt 2-3 but doesn't that cam require a more aggressive spring than an LS6?
I've done this cam for several cars in California and not only does it make very surprising power figures, but it literally drives like stock. It also has just enough lope at idle to let you know that the engine has been cammed. Great response off idle, gobs of bottom end torque and pulls clean to 6500rpm.
I can design this cam several ways with different lobe designs. I can use lobes meant to work with a PAC 1218 drop in spring or a LS6 spring. Both will work with factory retainers and locks while only needing new one piece locators/seals which I sell for 25.00 dollars.
Cam specs are 220/224 115+2. With -8 degrees of overlap @.050 and 46 degrees seat to seat it will drive just like stock and even pass a tail pipe sniffer test if need be.
If used with a PAC 1218 the lift would be .587/.578 and if used with a LS6 spring would be .561/.552.
Difference in power output between the higher lift cam and the lower lift cam would be in the 4-7hp range. LS6 springs will easily last 75-100k miles with this camshaft and the PAC 1218's will last roughly 50-75K miles.
I use Cam Motion 8620 cam cores which I sell for 450.00 dollars shipped.
If I can be of anymore help please call or email me.
Ok, reviving this thread from the dead. I have revised my goals and requirements to be a bit more realistic after doing a few months more homework.
Absolute top must haves:
Valvetrain reliability. On my old setup a broken aftermarket single beehive PAC spring caused a valve to drop, breaking the piston and putting a rod through the block. That caused me a lot of headache and unnecessary cost, so I am avoiding this at all costs. I will gladly sacrifice peak and or midrange power/torque for a design that will ensure long valvespring life with little to no maintenance. Seeing as my engine has not been opened for 108K miles, I'm running original 2000 lifters, pushrods, etc.
Valvespring Compatibility: I am comfortable with replacing the LS6 valve springs with a good quality set of dual springs with Titanium retainers. Of course this opens up a whole new world in terms of what cams are now available for use.
Driveability. Must drive like stock, or damn near close to it. I don't mind a choppy idle, ran a 112LSA on the 228R and liked the chop. I am trying to stay far, far away from low speed bucking, idle surge problems, etc. I realize much of this is related to the skill of the tuner, but the cam choice will directly affect driveability. Again as this is a daily car I want to be able to putter it around in the city where I work, without hating how it drives. Ease of tuning is a big factor as well.
Power: Yes, last on the list is power - a 30-40whp bump would be nice, but I am fine with sacrificing peak power in order to hold fast to the above items. Being primarily a street car I only take it to the strip maybe once a year, the rest is street driving, highway blasts, and back roads. EDIT: I do 3-4 road course days a year where the car spends a fair bit of time above 4000 rpm. I still spend a ton of time on the street, so mid-range torque would be nice. Don't want to have wait til 4000rpm to get going.
Our high lift hot cam does exactly what you want. Made 385 on a 99 ls1 m6 with 853 heads and ls6 intake. He LOVES it. Drives easy no bucking, idles pretty aggressive, he can let out on the clutch and idle it out. The orig hot cam wouldnt do that. He has 3.90 gears also. its super quiet under the hood and super easy on springs. We do normally use the pac1218s on it and they are all brand new not 2 year old batches either. You can use a dual spring of course. it does use a stock pr or you can upgrade. Ultra quiet under the hood, fun to drive, makes very good power, and on sale with pac1218 springs and cam is $500 so $15 off. I would add the viton valve stem seals for $22 as well. Stock style tophat seat/seal. They arent an option on there (yet) but we have them avail.
Our high lift hot cam does exactly what you want. Made 385 on a 99 ls1 m6 with 853 heads and ls6 intake. He LOVES it. Drives easy no bucking, idles pretty aggressive, he can let out on the clutch and idle it out. The orig hot cam wouldnt do that. He has 3.90 gears also. its super quiet under the hood and super easy on springs. We do normally use the pac1218s on it and they are all brand new not 2 year old batches either. You can use a dual spring of course. it does use a stock pr or you can upgrade. Ultra quiet under the hood, fun to drive, makes very good power, and on sale with pac1218 springs and cam is $500 so $15 off. I would add the viton valve stem seals for $22 as well. Stock style tophat seat/seal. They arent an option on there (yet) but we have them avail.
Video and dyno graph are in the link i posted at the end of my post.
We are offering a better asa cam but have not finalized the custom exhaust lobe yet or tested it yet. When we do, i will update everyone! it is DEF in the works though.
I've done this cam for several cars in California and not only does it make very surprising power figures, but it literally drives like stock. It also has just enough lope at idle to let you know that the engine has been cammed. Great response off idle, gobs of bottom end torque and pulls clean to 6500rpm.
I can design this cam several ways with different lobe designs. I can use lobes meant to work with a PAC 1218 drop in spring or a LS6 spring. Both will work with factory retainers and locks while only needing new one piece locators/seals which I sell for 25.00 dollars.
Cam specs are 220/224 115+2. With -8 degrees of overlap @.050 and 46 degrees seat to seat it will drive just like stock and even pass a tail pipe sniffer test if need be.
If used with a PAC 1218 the lift would be .587/.578 and if used with a LS6 spring would be .561/.552.
Difference in power output between the higher lift cam and the lower lift cam would be in the 4-7hp range. LS6 springs will easily last 75-100k miles with this camshaft and the PAC 1218's will last roughly 50-75K miles.
I use Cam Motion 8620 cam cores which I sell for 450.00 dollars shipped.
If I can be of anymore help please call or email me.
Thanks!
This is a great suggestion. This camshaft will drive just like stock and have some very nice power gains.
05-05-2016, 05:33 PM
Cam recommendation, emphasis on valvetrain/spring friendly lobes and drivability 
everyone has their own idea of what would be best. I thought about the gt 2-3 but doesn't that cam require a more aggressive spring than an LS6? 
