How much can stock crank and block take??
10-01-2005, 10:31 AM
#1
How much can stock crank and block take?? Can someone tell me how much hp a stock LS1 crank can take as well as the stock alum block, I'm looking at either TT or nitrous. And do most people get the block o-ringed?
I'm getting ready to build a new LS1 and if I can use the stock crank and make 600-800 on it then I won't waste money on high $ crank.
Here is what it is going in, and yes that is a Mustang.
I'm getting ready to build a new LS1 and if I can use the stock crank and make 600-800 on it then I won't waste money on high $ crank.
Here is what it is going in, and yes that is a Mustang.
10-01-2005, 01:26 PM
#6
TECH Senior Member
Once you have the block mock assembled and all clearances checked
( blueprinted), then you criogenicaly treat the crank. You'll be able to do 1000 hps all day.
Another way to strengthen the crank is to nitrate treat it.
( blueprinted), then you criogenicaly treat the crank. You'll be able to do 1000 hps all day.
Another way to strengthen the crank is to nitrate treat it.
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10-01-2005, 05:30 PM
#9
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Originally Posted by Slicknic
Has anyone ever chunked the stock crank?
10-02-2005, 12:14 PM
#10
Judging from the responce or lack of, I would say that Bluesix is right 
and that the stock crank is a good choice and not to spend your money on the high dollar cranks.
If anyone has a different opinion, let me know as I'm about to go part shoppin
and that the stock crank is a good choice and not to spend your money on the high dollar cranks.If anyone has a different opinion, let me know as I'm about to go part shoppin
10-02-2005, 02:12 PM
#13
A lot depends on use. A street strip car which is only at peak torque for a few minutes/year on the dyno and strip, these parts can last a long time.
On a road race, oval, or off-road racing car, where the engine run for hours/month at peak torque...the stock crank may fail. Even at moderate power levels. To avoid that you would need to have it x-rayed to insure it is ok. Machining would create radiuses on the journals to reduce stress level. Then you would probably cryo-treat it (to enhance the internal metal structure) and use either an induction harding (like Callies) or a surface hardening (like nitriding) to reduce the chance of crack propagation.
An aftermarket race crank would use material with higher yield stresses and typically have the radiuses, etc to minimize stress levels.
On a road race, oval, or off-road racing car, where the engine run for hours/month at peak torque...the stock crank may fail. Even at moderate power levels. To avoid that you would need to have it x-rayed to insure it is ok. Machining would create radiuses on the journals to reduce stress level. Then you would probably cryo-treat it (to enhance the internal metal structure) and use either an induction harding (like Callies) or a surface hardening (like nitriding) to reduce the chance of crack propagation.
An aftermarket race crank would use material with higher yield stresses and typically have the radiuses, etc to minimize stress levels.
10-02-2005, 03:06 PM
#14
Originally Posted by TS6
I think he is.
Signed, your good friend Mr. Obvious.
Signed, your good friend Mr. Obvious.
I'll start posting my progress once I start coming up with interesting stuff.
10-02-2005, 08:59 PM
#15
Originally Posted by Slicknic
Yes, a stang is what I'm planning but if it's not fast when I'm done i'll never hear the end of it form either side !
I'll start posting my progress once I start coming up with interesting stuff.
I'll start posting my progress once I start coming up with interesting stuff.
lol. And I thought I got flack for an LS6 RX-7. I can only imagine that hate mail that you are going to get. Rock on.
10-02-2005, 09:02 PM
#16
Originally Posted by DavidNJ
A lot depends on use. A street strip car which is only at peak torque for a few minutes/year on the dyno and strip, these parts can last a long time.
On a road race, oval, or off-road racing car, where the engine run for hours/month at peak torque...the stock crank may fail. Even at moderate power levels. To avoid that you would need to have it x-rayed to insure it is ok. Machining would create radiuses on the journals to reduce stress level. Then you would probably cryo-treat it (to enhance the internal metal structure) and use either an induction harding (like Callies) or a surface hardening (like nitriding) to reduce the chance of crack propagation.
An aftermarket race crank would use material with higher yield stresses and typically have the radiuses, etc to minimize stress levels.
On a road race, oval, or off-road racing car, where the engine run for hours/month at peak torque...the stock crank may fail. Even at moderate power levels. To avoid that you would need to have it x-rayed to insure it is ok. Machining would create radiuses on the journals to reduce stress level. Then you would probably cryo-treat it (to enhance the internal metal structure) and use either an induction harding (like Callies) or a surface hardening (like nitriding) to reduce the chance of crack propagation.
An aftermarket race crank would use material with higher yield stresses and typically have the radiuses, etc to minimize stress levels.
10-02-2005, 09:23 PM
#17
It is my understanding that after quenching of steels some austenite is retained in the martensite. And they the cryo treatment completes the transformation. While high cycle fatigue improvement of parts such as cranks and rods may be speculative, brake rotors show a clear and significant improvement.
Apparently, the carbides (carbon clusters causing brittleness) are smaller and more evenly distributed after the cryo treatment.
I have not seen any explanation for cryo treatment for non-ferric parts, although one might exist.
And now we are close to the limit of my metallurgy knowledge.
Apparently, the carbides (carbon clusters causing brittleness) are smaller and more evenly distributed after the cryo treatment.
I have not seen any explanation for cryo treatment for non-ferric parts, although one might exist.
And now we are close to the limit of my metallurgy knowledge.
Last edited by DavidNJ; 10-02-2005 at 09:42 PM.
10-02-2005, 10:02 PM
#18
Originally Posted by DavidNJ
It is my understanding that after quenching of steels some austenite is retained in the martensite. And they the cryo treatment completes the transformation. While high cycle fatigue improvement of parts such as cranks and rods may be speculative, brake rotors show a clear and significant improvement.
Apparently, the carbides (carbon clusters causing brittleness) are smaller and more evenly distributed after the cryo treatment.
I have not seen any explanation for cryo treatment for non-ferric parts, although one might exist.
And now we are close to the limit of my metallurgy knowledge.
Apparently, the carbides (carbon clusters causing brittleness) are smaller and more evenly distributed after the cryo treatment.
I have not seen any explanation for cryo treatment for non-ferric parts, although one might exist.
And now we are close to the limit of my metallurgy knowledge.
I'm sure there is some R&D data out there on this somewhere.
10-03-2005, 01:50 PM
#20
TECH Senior Member
I've used cryo treated cranks , piston rings, cylinder sleeves etc.. in 900 > 1200 HP Toyota twin Turbo six and skyline R32's.
it does work.
The only thing I had to change often were my clutches and trannies.
it does work.
The only thing I had to change often were my clutches and trannies.