Problem with my Dart PRC 205 Stage 2
03-04-2006, 06:43 PM
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Problem with my Dart PRC 205 Stage 2 I had the dealership install my Dart 205's ported by PRC and they started to smoke right away. I thought this was fairly normal, burning off, but then it persisted. I tried everything I could think of, replaced intake gaskets, siliconed the intake, and rocker bolts (and loc-tited them as well), then I eliminated the PCV system because I thought it might be coming from there. I did all this and it still smokes like a BANSHEE. Start up, part throttle, full throttle all smoke badly. I had it tuned last week, and the tuner couldn’t put all the timing in because it is getting so much oil into the cylinders. I called Texas Speed to see if they had ever had any problems like this and they said they hadn’t, they told me to try the things I had already done. They said they would call Dart and let me know, but I never got a call back, so I called a few days later and they didn’t remember my previous call.I know they are a reputable company and that is why I bought from them, so hopefully they can help me out with this issue!
I dynoed 410 hp, and 383tq but he couldnt put much timing into it because of the oil consumption.
What do you guys think it could be? Valve seals, bad guides, not assembled properly, just bad altogether?
2001 TA WS6
Dart 205 PRC stage 2
F13 114
LS6
Pacesetter LT
OFR Y
Magnaflow catback
ASP pulley
Fuddle 3400
I dynoed 410 hp, and 383tq but he couldnt put much timing into it because of the oil consumption.
What do you guys think it could be? Valve seals, bad guides, not assembled properly, just bad altogether?
2001 TA WS6
Dart 205 PRC stage 2
F13 114
LS6
Pacesetter LT
OFR Y
Magnaflow catback
ASP pulley
Fuddle 3400
03-04-2006, 07:24 PM
#3
Intake rocker bolt was my first thought, but since you've handled that, I'd say it's probably valve seals.
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03-04-2006, 07:33 PM
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Make sure the dealer didn't switch the hoses on the TB/intake for the PCV and vent. I have heard it can make them smoke. The one behind the TB that is actually on the intake is supposed to be hooked to the PCV and the one off of the TB itself is to the vent.
03-04-2006, 07:54 PM
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I agree, check that all the PVC lines are hooked up correctly.
Are you running a stock TB?
I have a TRIS 90 that can with the PVC vent behind the throttle blade, that would of sucked some oil.
Did the installer put Tread Sealer on all the Rocker Bolts, as they go directly into the intake runners. If they are not sealed they will suck oil.
Keep us posted
Are you running a stock TB?
I have a TRIS 90 that can with the PVC vent behind the throttle blade, that would of sucked some oil.
Did the installer put Tread Sealer on all the Rocker Bolts, as they go directly into the intake runners. If they are not sealed they will suck oil.
Keep us posted
03-04-2006, 09:27 PM
#6
Sorry I didn't get to talk with you again when you called. We were training the last half of the week on our new cnc valve job machine. 
Is the car still blowing the valve cover gaskets? You also mentioned to me the car is smoking out of the oil cap a lot, is this still going on?
The valve seals could definately cause a issue like this, but without looking at them closely it would be very hard to say. Did you ever get a chance to take the y pipe off & see if the car only smokes from one side?
We'll find out whats going on & get this thing running. I'll put another call to Dart Monday to see if they have any ideas. The quality that goes into their guides makes me definately doubt it's a valve guide issue. All of the Darts I've cut on our seat machine has been very similar on guide clearances.
Is the car still blowing the valve cover gaskets? You also mentioned to me the car is smoking out of the oil cap a lot, is this still going on?
The valve seals could definately cause a issue like this, but without looking at them closely it would be very hard to say. Did you ever get a chance to take the y pipe off & see if the car only smokes from one side?
We'll find out whats going on & get this thing running. I'll put another call to Dart Monday to see if they have any ideas. The quality that goes into their guides makes me definately doubt it's a valve guide issue. All of the Darts I've cut on our seat machine has been very similar on guide clearances.
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994rwhp/902lb ft @ 22 psi (mustang dyno) www.Texas-Speed.com
03-04-2006, 10:04 PM
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A buddy of mine ordered a set of the Dart heads 2 weeks before Christmas. They were supposed to ship the 2nd week in January but the ship date was pushed back almost a month because the heads had valve guide problems. Maybe this is your problem.
John
John
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03-05-2006, 07:10 AM
#8
Originally Posted by JNorris
A buddy of mine ordered a set of the Dart heads 2 weeks before Christmas. They were supposed to ship the 2nd week in January but the ship date was pushed back almost a month because the heads had valve guide problems. Maybe this is your problem.
John
John
When I had my Dart 205's apart, the guides appeared to be very good tolerance. What springs are you running? What valve seals, are they the ones that come with the Dart heads? How are they shimmed? Did you take any photo's before the installation?
If the guides were bad, I would think TSP would pick it up on disassembly/assembly. The shims sit over the seat/seal, were the shims under the seat or over the seat? This would bring the seal up closer to the retainer and might close out the clearance as well as lose some of the sealing ability.
Last edited by vettenuts; 03-05-2006 at 08:24 AM.
03-05-2006, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by vettenuts
Was this a techical problem or a supply problem? I have heard they are behind on orders, but it was a supply issue. Hard to believe with all the heads and manufacturing experience Dart has they would have problems with the guides.
Good question. I do not know if the problem was supply or technical.
03-05-2006, 07:23 PM
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I hope this week I can get a chance to pull the Y, so I can see if it coming from one head or the other. I guess that I will have to see if I can get it back into the dealer. I will just have to see what Jason finds out from Dart.
Thanks for all the Ideas but it looks like I got all my bases covered. This just sucks I get the new darts that are the best thing going for the money, and get them ported and they have an issue thats just my luck.
Thanks for all the Ideas but it looks like I got all my bases covered. This just sucks I get the new darts that are the best thing going for the money, and get them ported and they have an issue thats just my luck.
03-05-2006, 07:26 PM
#11
Keep us posted on what you find out, I am really curious as to why this occurred.
Do you know what gaskets the dealer used? I have had dealers (not on my Vette) actually replace gaskets without cleaning the surfaces at all. So thier care in installation would also be suspect in my mind. I even had one dealer, used car under warranty, replace the thermostat and install a new gasket without even removing the old one. All came down to time and $$$.
Do you know what gaskets the dealer used? I have had dealers (not on my Vette) actually replace gaskets without cleaning the surfaces at all. So thier care in installation would also be suspect in my mind. I even had one dealer, used car under warranty, replace the thermostat and install a new gasket without even removing the old one. All came down to time and $$$.
Last edited by vettenuts; 03-06-2006 at 06:36 AM.
03-06-2006, 09:23 PM
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Originally Posted by vettenuts
Keep us posted on what you find out, I am really curious as to why this occurred.
Do you know what gaskets the dealer used? I have had dealers (not on my Vette) actually replace gaskets without cleaning the surfaces at all. So thier care in installation would also be suspect in my mind. I even had one dealer, used car under warranty, replace the thermostat and install a new gasket without even removing the old one. All came down to time and $$$.
Do you know what gaskets the dealer used? I have had dealers (not on my Vette) actually replace gaskets without cleaning the surfaces at all. So thier care in installation would also be suspect in my mind. I even had one dealer, used car under warranty, replace the thermostat and install a new gasket without even removing the old one. All came down to time and $$$.
03-07-2006, 09:45 AM
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Did you guys figure out why it smokes out the oil cap & blows valve cover gaskets?
Jason
Jason
Originally Posted by 98whitez28
i work at the dealership and did the work on whoznxt ta. gm gaskets were used and the gasket surfaces were as clean and free of any debris. hopefully he can get that y off and see what head is giving him the problem. when he told me it was smoking i just shrugged it off cause mine did the same for the first day just burning anything left in the combustion chamber but his **** is still smokin like a bastard. so hopefully he can get this taken care of. sucks driving a nice car then look back and see it smokin like a bastard.
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03-07-2006, 09:55 AM
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Guide problems
Originally Posted by JNorris
A buddy of mine ordered a set of the Dart heads 2 weeks before Christmas. They were supposed to ship the 2nd week in January but the ship date was pushed back almost a month because the heads had valve guide problems. Maybe this is your problem.
John
John
In order to get the amount of oil smoke you mention it would have to have no seals, pretty easy to pull a valve cover and check that out. I would check the hoses that could be crossed as this will pull oil directly into the intake tract and cause some serious smoking also.
Thanks
John
Dart
03-08-2006, 05:55 PM
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so you checked that out yet man? you guys still planing on going to firebird friday? i got a job offer at freeway chevy on i10 and ray and saturn of tempe(yay). anyways let me know what you find out with that smoke machine you call a car.
03-08-2006, 07:03 PM
#18
Originally Posted by Dart331Stroker
We (DART) have never had a guide "issue" with these heads. The only thing that has kept us from shipping all orders is just plain and simple supply and demand. In 90 days we have machined and shipped over 900 of these heads. And last week alone we shipped over 120 of these heads. We are making them as fast as the foundry can pour them for us. Guides being out of stock, not an issue we supply them to ourselves, we buy the material in 20 foot lengths and machine them in house. As far as any "issue" that may have been brought up, it was in regards to engineering, we made changes to the heads before they were released, we changed the 11/32 stem diameter that was originally going to be used to 8mm, due in large part to feed back from our dealers, but also in regards to feedback received on this board. You can find information on this board regarding this change and when the heads were being released, and you will see that is what was said about the guides.
In order to get the amount of oil smoke you mention it would have to have no seals, pretty easy to pull a valve cover and check that out. I would check the hoses that could be crossed as this will pull oil directly into the intake tract and cause some serious smoking also.
Thanks
John
Dart
In order to get the amount of oil smoke you mention it would have to have no seals, pretty easy to pull a valve cover and check that out. I would check the hoses that could be crossed as this will pull oil directly into the intake tract and cause some serious smoking also.
Thanks
John
Dart