if you were going to build a new n/a motor...
03-26-2006, 06:41 PM
#1
if you were going to build a new n/a motor... If you were going to build a new n/a motor for a car that sees about 2000 miles a year on the street and about 30 or so track passes a year, what would you build? The only real limitation is that it needs to run on pump gas. I'm not looking to build a motor that's capable of running 8's, but to build anything less then what's needed to run better then 11 flat seems like it would be a waste. What heads, displacment, alum or iron, what intake, etc.etc?
The motor is going to go into a car that has a Th400 in it, if that matters at all.
I think I might be finding myself in the market for a new motor...
The motor is going to go into a car that has a Th400 in it, if that matters at all.
I think I might be finding myself in the market for a new motor...
03-26-2006, 06:49 PM
#3
Any budget concerns? Id start with a 402 built by a vendor of your choice (as long as its not SLP 
). Throw on some AFR or ETP heads, a fast 90/90 and a custom cam in the 25x range. A TH400, a big stall and a 12 bolt should get you there. Might as well add a wet nitrous kit in the 200 range for a little added fun on those track passes. I doubt youll need the juice to get down to low 11s, possibly quicker depending on the rest of the setup.
). Throw on some AFR or ETP heads, a fast 90/90 and a custom cam in the 25x range. A TH400, a big stall and a 12 bolt should get you there. Might as well add a wet nitrous kit in the 200 range for a little added fun on those track passes. I doubt youll need the juice to get down to low 11s, possibly quicker depending on the rest of the setup. 
03-26-2006, 07:25 PM
#5
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most of what you guys have said is way overkill for what he's talking about. i would say something like an iron block 370, stock crank, scat rods, wiseco pistons (call HKE, Erik is building mine) nice set of Dart ported heads (or ETP if you want to drop a ton of money that you don't really need to.) solid roller cam (somewhere in the 250 .700 112 area), T&D rockers, single plane manifold with an elbow and 90mm tb (or a fast setup if you want to spend that extra cash) a set of Kooks 1.875-2" stepped race headers, the right converter and you're running low 10s on motor.
03-26-2006, 09:14 PM
#6
The th400 has a big stall that's going in with it.. the plan was to put it in next month and see what the h/c setup I already have would get me... I knwo my 3700 race weight car was not gonna turn the world on it's head, but I figured mid 11's were in a realm of reasonable expectations.... until today when I think it decided to eat a piston or something. Dipstick decided to eject itself after a highway pull of 3rd and 4th, it's running rough to say the least. Not sure which went, I knwo it's not 5 or 7 I pulled those plugs thinking they would be the culprit.
It's what I get for pushing on the stock bottom end, I shoudl have known better, I always laugh when I see others doing it, and here I am.
I am explorign alot of options right now, the budget isn't exact, but I am figuring by teh time I'm done it's gonna be a 10K bill with the upgraded fuel pump and iinjectors to feed it. I am not looking for an 8 sec all motor setup, but to build somethign that will run anythign less then 11 flat is kind of senseless to me if I'm gonna do it.
I have to talk to my shop and see what they think, whatever I end up doing, I want it to work with teh tranny setup that I already have sitting all ready to go in, I figure I mine as well try to maximize that the best I can, no sense in building a motor taht's gonna require restalling teh converter and all that, just gonna add more uneeded cost.
Something I wanted to try was a 4.15 bore, stock stroke motor, with ET heads, or maybe AFR's, and a single plane intake, I think it woudl make for a real strong motor that would easily pull to 7400 and have a really good power curve for street and track use... but I'm undecided at this point.
Keep the ideas coming, I think that a motor setup that is big and srong enough to be able to grow into would be a smart move.. I wasn't really aiming to have a 10 second car when I finally get it back to the track ( which now won't happen this year that's for sure ) mid to low 11's were gonna make this guy very happy... but now I guess if I am going to try to do something that will make the power, or at least have the potential ( via some added help from nitrous, or whatever ) to get into teh 10's would be a smart move. The good part is that the motor in the car doesn' have a rod thru it or anything like that, it still starts and will run, so it's not a deal where everythign is scrap..... so doing something with it, the good ls6 heads that are on it, is still a possibility.
It's what I get for pushing on the stock bottom end, I shoudl have known better, I always laugh when I see others doing it, and here I am.
I am explorign alot of options right now, the budget isn't exact, but I am figuring by teh time I'm done it's gonna be a 10K bill with the upgraded fuel pump and iinjectors to feed it. I am not looking for an 8 sec all motor setup, but to build somethign that will run anythign less then 11 flat is kind of senseless to me if I'm gonna do it.
I have to talk to my shop and see what they think, whatever I end up doing, I want it to work with teh tranny setup that I already have sitting all ready to go in, I figure I mine as well try to maximize that the best I can, no sense in building a motor taht's gonna require restalling teh converter and all that, just gonna add more uneeded cost.
Something I wanted to try was a 4.15 bore, stock stroke motor, with ET heads, or maybe AFR's, and a single plane intake, I think it woudl make for a real strong motor that would easily pull to 7400 and have a really good power curve for street and track use... but I'm undecided at this point.
Keep the ideas coming, I think that a motor setup that is big and srong enough to be able to grow into would be a smart move.. I wasn't really aiming to have a 10 second car when I finally get it back to the track ( which now won't happen this year that's for sure ) mid to low 11's were gonna make this guy very happy... but now I guess if I am going to try to do something that will make the power, or at least have the potential ( via some added help from nitrous, or whatever ) to get into teh 10's would be a smart move. The good part is that the motor in the car doesn' have a rod thru it or anything like that, it still starts and will run, so it's not a deal where everythign is scrap..... so doing something with it, the good ls6 heads that are on it, is still a possibility.
03-26-2006, 10:09 PM
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if the car already has a th400 in it how did you run through 3rd and 4th? honestly why would you spend the money on a 4.15" bore motor, and ETP heads and A: only have bottom 11s for the goal, and B: not spend some more cash on a better crank. the stock crank will be a weak point in that type of motor especially at a 7400rpm power peak. the setup i mentioned above with something like an 8" all motor converter in the 4400rpm range and a 3500# race weight would put you in the 10.40s easy. i think you ideas and your "goals" are way seperated from eachother.
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03-26-2006, 10:10 PM
#8
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if the car already has a th400 in it how did you run through 3rd and 4th? honestly why would you spend the money on a 4.15" bore motor, and ETP heads and A: only have bottom 11s for the goal, and B: not spend some more cash on a better crank. the stock crank will be a weak point in that type of motor especially at a 7400rpm power peak. the setup i mentioned above with something like an 8" all motor converter in the 4400rpm range and a 3500# race weight would put you in the 10.40s easy. i think you ideas and your "goals" are way seperated from eachother. if you just want low 11s you just need a stock cube stock rebuilt motor with heads and cam and a good trans/converter setup. to spend the kind of money on a huge bore motor your goals should be low 10s easy. there are cam only cars going 10.40s at 3200#+ race weight for gods sake.
03-27-2006, 04:45 AM
#9
The th400 is sitting in my basement, and was going to get swapped in abotu 3 weeks from now.. so when the new motor goes in, it will get done then now. Stick's still in the car.
I can't justify building something that is only going to run in the mid 11's, that was what I was hoping for with the h/c setup that is in the car... but now, I guess I need to probably start thinking about building something that's way more then I need and have some room to grow into it... I'm not really sure how fast I want to go with teh car, I always said that i"d stop before the cargot into the 9's because i didn't want to fully cage the car.. so I guess I'm gonna probably work at a mid 10 sec. setup now and try to be done with it. The th400 setup I ahve has a 4500 converter sitting there waiting to go in with the tranny, so whatever I build at this point, is probably gonna be something that will work with that.
I can't justify building something that is only going to run in the mid 11's, that was what I was hoping for with the h/c setup that is in the car... but now, I guess I need to probably start thinking about building something that's way more then I need and have some room to grow into it... I'm not really sure how fast I want to go with teh car, I always said that i"d stop before the cargot into the 9's because i didn't want to fully cage the car.. so I guess I'm gonna probably work at a mid 10 sec. setup now and try to be done with it. The th400 setup I ahve has a 4500 converter sitting there waiting to go in with the tranny, so whatever I build at this point, is probably gonna be something that will work with that.
03-27-2006, 04:55 AM
#10
You and I are about the same, 2000 miles a year and 30 passes at the track a year.
'mI waiting to see how much the LS7 block is going to cost and if it's only $500 more than a LS2 block, I might build me a 427.
I plan on keeping my car for many years to come so I'm not in a huge hurry.
'mI waiting to see how much the LS7 block is going to cost and if it's only $500 more than a LS2 block, I might build me a 427.
I plan on keeping my car for many years to come so I'm not in a huge hurry.
03-27-2006, 05:05 AM
#11
I'm not getting rid of the car.. I look at that as if that's letting the car win LOL. It is going to live to be pummelled senseless another day.. may take a while before that happens, but it will eventually happen.
Right now the problem that I am goign to face is if I go with a big CI setup, my 1 3/4 headers, ls6 intake setup, fuel stuff is all gonna have to go as well, so it's really either build another 346 and not have ot do all that over again, or go for a big CI setup and do it all..... and that means a 15K bill, maybe more.
Gonna take alot of ******* overtime at $31 an hour to come up with that kind of cash after the man gets done taking his third of it
Right now the problem that I am goign to face is if I go with a big CI setup, my 1 3/4 headers, ls6 intake setup, fuel stuff is all gonna have to go as well, so it's really either build another 346 and not have ot do all that over again, or go for a big CI setup and do it all..... and that means a 15K bill, maybe more.
Gonna take alot of ******* overtime at $31 an hour to come up with that kind of cash after the man gets done taking his third of it
03-27-2006, 12:47 PM
#12
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Originally Posted by JL ws-6
I'm not getting rid of the car.. I look at that as if that's letting the car win LOL. It is going to live to be pummelled senseless another day.. may take a while before that happens, but it will eventually happen.
Right now the problem that I am goign to face is if I go with a big CI setup, my 1 3/4 headers, ls6 intake setup, fuel stuff is all gonna have to go as well, so it's really either build another 346 and not have ot do all that over again, or go for a big CI setup and do it all..... and that means a 15K bill, maybe more.
Gonna take alot of ******* overtime at $31 an hour to come up with that kind of cash after the man gets done taking his third of it
Right now the problem that I am goign to face is if I go with a big CI setup, my 1 3/4 headers, ls6 intake setup, fuel stuff is all gonna have to go as well, so it's really either build another 346 and not have ot do all that over again, or go for a big CI setup and do it all..... and that means a 15K bill, maybe more.
Gonna take alot of ******* overtime at $31 an hour to come up with that kind of cash after the man gets done taking his third of it
04-11-2006, 10:57 PM
#13
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i just got some bad rod knock in my t/a, time to get something new...what would you all do? have the stock motor rebuilt, that already has upgraded everything bottom end (which is why i dont understand why it would have broke) but it was a cammed ls1 with ported stock heads and forged internals, for spray. it made good power and it would be about 2,500 to rebuild. or i have heard about this slp 402... that i'd be interested in..
anyone spray this motor? or is it not a good idea? i could have this one put in and i'd hope to spend about 5,000 on this. i can afford to do the 402 but i really dont wanna spend that much money. i feel stuck on what i could do, any feedback on this would be greatly appreciated!
anyone spray this motor? or is it not a good idea? i could have this one put in and i'd hope to spend about 5,000 on this. i can afford to do the 402 but i really dont wanna spend that much money. i feel stuck on what i could do, any feedback on this would be greatly appreciated!
04-12-2006, 07:43 AM
#16
I think I'm all set with the engine builder, I'm having Eastside Performance take care of it. All the above mentioned shops are more then adequate and capable of building something above and beyond what I need, as well as Eastside for that matter.. and the price guesstimates I have above ( the 15K ) is for a motor that is so much more then what I need it's not even funny... the 402 that I am going to go with will be well under that mark I'm positive of it.