LSK lobes too harsh?
#1
LSK lobes too harsh?
I just got off the phone with COMP Cams helpline. Spec'ing a custom cam. The guy tried to tell me that an intake lobe of .231 duration with .643 lift is too high and will collapse a lifter anywhere above 6500 RPM.
Anybody got any thoughts?
Anybody got any thoughts?
#3
LS1 Tech Administrator
iTrader: (14)
Unfortunately, the most of the tech people at Comp are not up to speed in regards to LSX cam recommendations. You should bypass Comp and order directly from Thunder Racing or TSP. They get quick turnaround from Comp and will probably sell it to you cheaper than Comp and their techincal know-how with LS1s is FAR superior to that of most of the tech support at Comp.
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2018 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 Pat G tuned.
LS1,LS2,LS3,LS7,LT1 Custom Camshaft Specialist For custom camshaft help press here.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2018 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 Pat G tuned.
LS1,LS2,LS3,LS7,LT1 Custom Camshaft Specialist For custom camshaft help press here.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
#4
Here is a good quote from another tread:
Originally Posted by bluecamaroz28
Here is some additional information on valve springs for hydraulic roller engines (obtained from a cam grinder, not a sponser here or I will mention the name):
Hydraulic roller cams present a unique problem for higher rpm use, especially above 6000-6500. The heavy lifters and relatively fast acting profiles (which is what makes real power) require lots of spring pressure to get that heavy tappet back on the base circle of the lobe and hold the valve closed. However, virtually all springs you can find from other sources that do have enough seat pressure, also give very high open pressures. This sucks, since open pressures over 340-350 will squeeze the oil out of the lifter, and making the profile "look" smaller to the engine. (If you have difficulty with this one, contact the actual lifter manufacturers). It's as if a slice of the backside of the lobe was removed, as far as the breathing part of the engine is concerned. Therefore, the rpm ability given by the higher seat pressure is taken away by the heavy open pressure reducing the duration seen by the engine. Without that duration, the engine will not rev as well or make as much high end power.
Hydraulic roller cams present a unique problem for higher rpm use, especially above 6000-6500. The heavy lifters and relatively fast acting profiles (which is what makes real power) require lots of spring pressure to get that heavy tappet back on the base circle of the lobe and hold the valve closed. However, virtually all springs you can find from other sources that do have enough seat pressure, also give very high open pressures. This sucks, since open pressures over 340-350 will squeeze the oil out of the lifter, and making the profile "look" smaller to the engine. (If you have difficulty with this one, contact the actual lifter manufacturers). It's as if a slice of the backside of the lobe was removed, as far as the breathing part of the engine is concerned. Therefore, the rpm ability given by the higher seat pressure is taken away by the heavy open pressure reducing the duration seen by the engine. Without that duration, the engine will not rev as well or make as much high end power.
#7
Thanks for the tip cws T/A! I wonder what kind of cam lift and profile the racing CTVS Cadilac uses?
Originally Posted by bg-sdpc
NEW GM Performance Parts Hydraulic Roller Lifter for LS-Engines
#SD8689 $217.85/set
You heard it first from SDPC! This new lifter will work in all LS- engine applications and is specifically suited for race cams and high RPM applications. They can also be used as an upgrade for stock lifters and are suitable for street applications. These lifters were developed for the CTSV Cadillac Race Team that used the “short stroke” LS7 style engines that raced in the Grand Am Cup Series during 2005. If you recall these engines were built using the LS7 block, LS7heads, and LS7 intake but the sanctioning body required the teams to meet the 5.7-liter engine size of 346ci. There were several different combinations tried but most of these engines used a stroke of approximately 3.200”. The demand to make race winning horsepower with a short stroke guarantees the unavoidable element of high RPM’s.
Initial testing, before these new lifters were developed, showed a definite valvetrain stability problem above 7000-rpm’s. Several remedies were tried, but in the end it was determined that the lifter had the biggest contribution to the RPM limit. This new lifter has internal changes made to the hydraulic components which resulted in a significant RPM increase. After installing the new lifters, these engines were now making power at 8000-rpm and they regularly saw 8500-rpm’s without any problems! WOW! The CTSV dominated the first races, not only did the sanctioning body enforce an RPM limit on the short stoke Caddies but they eventually implemented more restrictions to limit the horsepower on these LS7 equipped 346ci engines.
As a reminder, hydraulic roller cam valvetrain stability is a function of many different variables; camshaft design (ramp acceleration), pushrods, valve springs, rocker ratios, spring pressures, valve weight, the weight of all valvetrain components, oil pressure, RPM, etc. It is imperative that you have sufficient spring pressures, quality push rods and lifters, proper lash adjustment, and the lightest valvetrain components you can afford to maintain accurate stability at high RPM’s. Match your components to meet your RPM range!
We recommend a preload setting of 0.060” (cold) with these lifters, in most cases with adjustable rockers this is usually somewhere between 1-full turn and 1-1/2 from the “Zero-Lash” point. This is the same preload as a stock lifter!
Stock lifter on the left in both pictures.
#SD8689 $217.85/set
You heard it first from SDPC! This new lifter will work in all LS- engine applications and is specifically suited for race cams and high RPM applications. They can also be used as an upgrade for stock lifters and are suitable for street applications. These lifters were developed for the CTSV Cadillac Race Team that used the “short stroke” LS7 style engines that raced in the Grand Am Cup Series during 2005. If you recall these engines were built using the LS7 block, LS7heads, and LS7 intake but the sanctioning body required the teams to meet the 5.7-liter engine size of 346ci. There were several different combinations tried but most of these engines used a stroke of approximately 3.200”. The demand to make race winning horsepower with a short stroke guarantees the unavoidable element of high RPM’s.
Initial testing, before these new lifters were developed, showed a definite valvetrain stability problem above 7000-rpm’s. Several remedies were tried, but in the end it was determined that the lifter had the biggest contribution to the RPM limit. This new lifter has internal changes made to the hydraulic components which resulted in a significant RPM increase. After installing the new lifters, these engines were now making power at 8000-rpm and they regularly saw 8500-rpm’s without any problems! WOW! The CTSV dominated the first races, not only did the sanctioning body enforce an RPM limit on the short stoke Caddies but they eventually implemented more restrictions to limit the horsepower on these LS7 equipped 346ci engines.
As a reminder, hydraulic roller cam valvetrain stability is a function of many different variables; camshaft design (ramp acceleration), pushrods, valve springs, rocker ratios, spring pressures, valve weight, the weight of all valvetrain components, oil pressure, RPM, etc. It is imperative that you have sufficient spring pressures, quality push rods and lifters, proper lash adjustment, and the lightest valvetrain components you can afford to maintain accurate stability at high RPM’s. Match your components to meet your RPM range!
We recommend a preload setting of 0.060” (cold) with these lifters, in most cases with adjustable rockers this is usually somewhere between 1-full turn and 1-1/2 from the “Zero-Lash” point. This is the same preload as a stock lifter!
Stock lifter on the left in both pictures.
Last edited by gollum; 09-28-2006 at 06:17 PM.
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#10
LS1 Tech Administrator
iTrader: (14)
Originally Posted by N4cer
So do you guys think it's a good idea to move to these lifters if running LSK lobes then?
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2018 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 Pat G tuned.
LS1,LS2,LS3,LS7,LT1 Custom Camshaft Specialist For custom camshaft help press here.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2018 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 Pat G tuned.
LS1,LS2,LS3,LS7,LT1 Custom Camshaft Specialist For custom camshaft help press here.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
#13
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Originally Posted by N4cer
80k miles... what 'cha think?