Changing oil pan and rod bolts
05-05-2008, 06:12 PM
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Changing oil pan and rod bolts ok well i have the thread about changing the rod bolts, and it tells how to drop the oil pan and all that. Im just wondering where is the best place to get rod bolts and which ones are the best???? Katech or ARP?? i just want them to be pull old bolt out, put new bolt in style and torque to specs.
05-05-2008, 06:27 PM
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also wanting to change the rod bolt bearings while im in there also, who all have done this and i hear when you change rod bolts to do them one at a time and if i change the bearings i will need to take the rod cap off so what are the steps in that???
05-05-2008, 06:56 PM
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because the crank and bearings wear together. If you dont polish the crank, there is a good chance of spinning one of the new bearings. I would just put in new rod bolts and not mess with the bearings.
05-05-2008, 07:03 PM
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yea thats what im beginning to think, hell if it aint broke dont fix it right lol. I can still get the O ring for the oil pump off without taking the **** off the front of the engine right??? i think its pinched and the ****** who did my oil pump put it in and didnt put a new oil pan gasket on and just put RTV sealant on it and its leaking of course, and on top of that he might have crossthreaded some of the bolts so i might need to rethread them. Anyone ever rethread there bolt holes down there before?? **** thats why now i do all the **** myself.
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05-05-2008, 11:10 PM
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There have not been any people that i recall coming forward claiming the ARP's caused a problem from being slapped on. But then again they don't make any claim that they are meant to be used in that manner, so it's a "try at your own risk" type deal.
The Katechs do make that claim and seem to work about the same. I'd say you were fine with either to be honest.
About the bearings, leave them be until you do a rebuild. And the bolt holes, you might be better off using helicoils if they are fucked up. Just re-threading them will remove material, whereas the helicoil is adding new material to keep a solid seat for the bolt. Plus it is aluminum, so I would feel more secure in the knowledge that they will not fail or backout if it were me.
The Katechs do make that claim and seem to work about the same. I'd say you were fine with either to be honest.
About the bearings, leave them be until you do a rebuild. And the bolt holes, you might be better off using helicoils if they are fucked up. Just re-threading them will remove material, whereas the helicoil is adding new material to keep a solid seat for the bolt. Plus it is aluminum, so I would feel more secure in the knowledge that they will not fail or backout if it were me.
05-06-2008, 03:02 AM
#10
From what I have read, and I have no personal experience with this, you shouldn't take the rod cap off. The LS engines rod's/rod caps are not the same as a Gen 1 engine. Instead of the surface between the rod and the rod cap being smooth, it's irregular which is suppose to help it seat together better. When you take the rod apart it won't go back together the same way which will result in improper bearing clearance.
This is what i don't understand. "They" say to have to rods redone if you put bearings in. So if you take the rods to the machine shop, have them check them, hone them whatever, you still have to take them apart again to put them in the engine.
So how is that different from just taking them apart in the first place? Does the machine shop cut the rod and resize them so the two surfaces are smooth?
I wish someone would explain that because it really doesn't make any sense to me. I am not saying I am right, I just don't know.
This is what i don't understand. "They" say to have to rods redone if you put bearings in. So if you take the rods to the machine shop, have them check them, hone them whatever, you still have to take them apart again to put them in the engine.
So how is that different from just taking them apart in the first place? Does the machine shop cut the rod and resize them so the two surfaces are smooth?
I wish someone would explain that because it really doesn't make any sense to me. I am not saying I am right, I just don't know.
05-06-2008, 04:59 AM
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I put the ARP Pro Series ones in my car. They work fine. Katechs were on back order for god knows how many months when I was looking to do my bolts and I just went with the ARPs. No regrets at all.
05-07-2008, 01:13 PM
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im getting the high performance series bolts, putting in some Spohn solid motor mounts and fixing that damn oil pan gasket/ bolts problem.
05-07-2008, 01:18 PM
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I talked to 3 different engine building/machine shops when preping my LS1 for my truck . I bout pro-series ARP rod bolts and all 3 recommended that i dont touch any of them. they told me to keep the bolts and install then when i do a bottom end rebuild. I ended up not using my bolts. Figured theres no point in screwing up a bottom end that im not ready to rebuild yet.
05-07-2008, 01:35 PM
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well i have a 98 and the rod bolts arent exactly the best, and im wondering if i should get the pro series or the high performance series????? and since mine is a 98 i dont have those stupid ferrules things right???
05-07-2008, 01:51 PM
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well now the more i read the more it makes me not want to do rod bolts, I dont want to spend that much money on katechs and ARP is a good company from everything ive read. i just plan on doing heads and cam in the future and it would be a piece of mind also, plus im already gonna have the oil pan off and all that anyways.
05-07-2008, 01:59 PM
#17
I emailed LPE a while back asking about rod bolts and oil pumps. This was his reply.
---------------------------------------------
I wouldn't consider the oil pump and the rod bolts to be weak points that are "so prone" to failure. I would say those are two of the areas that problems sometimes happen but they aren't prone to those problems happening (the failures on these parts are still very low).
The rod bolts aren't a problem on stock engines. It is when you start to increase the engine rpm that it becomes an issue. That being said, I am not sure if we have every seen a rod bolt failure on the stock LS1 engines.
On the ASA engines testing was done for extended periods of time at elevated engine rpms (around 6800 to 7000 rpm) and the rod bolts showed to be a durability concern under these conditions.
For durability reasons in race engines that would see sustained high rpm use, the decision was made to change the rod bolts on the ASA LS1 engines. For further durability improvements the maximum rpm level was also reduced to below the level where failure was occuring.
The newer engines, I think starting in around 2001 with the LS6 engines, went to a higher strength rod bolt design that addressed these issues as well.
On the oil pumps, the pressure control valve sometimes sticks causing a loss in oil pressure. Several possible causes for this exist. The different pressure control valve and spring design of the high volume pump and of the Melling pump address most of these issues.
If you have a basically stock engine I would not recommend our high volume pump - it is too much oil flow for your application. I would stick with you stock pump that is working fine now. If you are going to have the engine apart anyway for a camshaft change or some other change, then I would consider switching to the stock volume Melling pump (don't remember the number off the top of my head).
---------------------------------------------
I wouldn't consider the oil pump and the rod bolts to be weak points that are "so prone" to failure. I would say those are two of the areas that problems sometimes happen but they aren't prone to those problems happening (the failures on these parts are still very low).
The rod bolts aren't a problem on stock engines. It is when you start to increase the engine rpm that it becomes an issue. That being said, I am not sure if we have every seen a rod bolt failure on the stock LS1 engines.
On the ASA engines testing was done for extended periods of time at elevated engine rpms (around 6800 to 7000 rpm) and the rod bolts showed to be a durability concern under these conditions.
For durability reasons in race engines that would see sustained high rpm use, the decision was made to change the rod bolts on the ASA LS1 engines. For further durability improvements the maximum rpm level was also reduced to below the level where failure was occuring.
The newer engines, I think starting in around 2001 with the LS6 engines, went to a higher strength rod bolt design that addressed these issues as well.
On the oil pumps, the pressure control valve sometimes sticks causing a loss in oil pressure. Several possible causes for this exist. The different pressure control valve and spring design of the high volume pump and of the Melling pump address most of these issues.
If you have a basically stock engine I would not recommend our high volume pump - it is too much oil flow for your application. I would stick with you stock pump that is working fine now. If you are going to have the engine apart anyway for a camshaft change or some other change, then I would consider switching to the stock volume Melling pump (don't remember the number off the top of my head).
05-07-2008, 02:05 PM
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ok i keep hearing different stories so im not gonna do the rod bolts, i mean i dont rev my engine past 6000 rpm anyways so no point. hell more money for stuff like the strut tower brace and all that lol.
05-07-2008, 04:53 PM
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I just got to see a set of LS1 rods out of a motor last weekend. When they say the LS1's have a "cracked" rodcap it is exactly that. Instead of a nice flat smooth surfaces for the cap/rod to mate it is jagged. Break a piece of styrofoam and look at the break surfaces. They will be all uneven and jagged and will only go back together EXACTLY the way it was before the break. All the nooks will line back up just right. This is how the rod cap and rods are. I guess the rod is at one time 1 piece it probably gets frozen and a machine cracks off the bottom cap section. The break is obviously very clean it's actually pretty neat. I will try to get pics.
05-07-2008, 11:12 PM
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I just got to see a set of LS1 rods out of a motor last weekend. When they say the LS1's have a "cracked" rodcap it is exactly that. Instead of a nice flat smooth surfaces for the cap/rod to mate it is jagged. Break a piece of styrofoam and look at the break surfaces. They will be all uneven and jagged and will only go back together EXACTLY the way it was before the break. All the nooks will line back up just right. This is how the rod cap and rods are. I guess the rod is at one time 1 piece it probably gets frozen and a machine cracks off the bottom cap section. The break is obviously very clean it's actually pretty neat. I will try to get pics.