PowerTalk

Buddy of mine wants to order a cam and do the install on both our cars together at the same time. He wants a 224/230 because another friend of ours has had good results with one.

The car is DD and drag raced once a month. He likes 'em really lopey

He already has a new packet of PAC1218 springs. Does that limit him to XER lobes only or can he still run an XFI?
Could he use 1518s and XFI or stick to XER?

Last question, which LSA and advance should he order?
111+1
112+0
112+2
113+2
114
114+4
etc etc etc

Thanks all

PREDATOR-Z

need a bit more info, M6, A4, stall, bolt ons, gears, cam only?

JPH

iTrader: (2)

Exactly.

PowerTalk

AFAIK, all bolt on supporting mods, like longtubes, true duals, LS6 manifold, ported TB, SD tune etc

-3.7s or 3.9s can't remember.
-Also has A4 with a larger (bigger than 3500+) stall.

JPH

iTrader: (2)

111+2

PowerTalk

Thank you sir

Why not 109+0?

Any help on the lobes/springs scenario? Will XFIs work with 1218s?

JPH

iTrader: (2)

Well I know the Crane stuff better than Comp, but I believe an XFI intake lobe/XER exhaust lobe is a good profile. Predator Z would know better then me on that one. 109LDA wouldn't advise. Springs, depends on lift and lobes used.

PowerTalk

This should be VERY interesting

Predator-Z suggested this to suit my requirements in another thread:
I wonder which will make more HP seeing as its mainly the exhaust is different

Still not sure on his springs though

ZFSix

iTrader: (14)

I had a 224/230 .581/.588 114lsa comp grind (XER maybe?)

With 1-3/4" long tubes, ported TB, stock LS6 intake, MSD wires, u/d pulley it made 400rwhp/383rwtq through a 6 speed (stock clutch) with 3.73s.

Took it out and put it in my buddies GTO with the same ported TB (I went with a 90/90 and bigger cam). He has an 04, auto, stock rear end gears, stock converter, pacesetter headers, made 370rwhp/350rwtq.

I loved that cam, made great mid range power and drove like it did with bolt ons. Not very choppy at idle. You could tell it was cammed but it wasn't too wild.

bayer-z28

iTrader: (14)

Pat G Torquer Cam!!! (custom grind thru Thunder Racing) I've got it w/ Wheel 2 Wheel LS6 heads and it pulls NICE but drives almost like stock when you're babying it!!

224/228 .637 .639 110+0 (Really minimal lope! But noticeable!) It ground out and degreed to slightly different, but it's the same result.. Don't go with a large cam, please!! IMO, too many people are over camming these cars and you can get about the same power with better driveability with a medium cam.

PREDATOR-Z

You shouldnt look at a cam in function of just Hp but in function of Powerband. A Hp/Trq band is a curve and this is where we all try to adjust very hard to seek such and such characteristic.
To do that you manipulate valve events (VE)s.


0.050
224/230
111 LSA/109 ICL


IVO>3
IVC>41
EVO>48
EVC>2
113>ECL
5*Overlap

So as per JPH suggestion, this cam should peak around 6100 (LS6 intake), will carry well past that to 6500, is exhaust biased (slightly), 48 EVO is good midrange trq, 5* overlap medium chochop (sound), power range 1800>6500 rpm

Now, I cannot remember the mods but genericaly the 224/224 looks like this:

0.050
224/224
111 LSA/110 ICL


IVO>2
IVC>42
EVO>44
EVC>0
112>ECL
2* Overlap

So (genericaly, and might react different depending on mods), it will peak around 6200rpm, slightly exhaust biased, 2* overlap, GREAT trq in midrange (44 EVO), but there is a trick here, I know the lobes and this is a XFI/XE-R cam which at .200 will act as a reverse split and make lots of trq.
TRQ is what is needed for acceleration so that is what this cam is best for.
Properly done I've seen 400+rwhp and 400rwtq out of a cam exactly like this one.
As a matter of fact, being power hungry as we are, the guy who loved it wanted more and decided to go 228/232 to get more Hp, well he didn't get his wish, lost Hp and trq and slowed down 0.2 at the track. He was baffled.
Morale it is not the size of the cam, but the combination of all parts, that makes THE power desired WHEN desired

PowerTalk

I understand. I didn't mean only a dyno peak HP figure, was only generalising.

Thanks for all your input in both threads!! They both seem like great cams and should do very well.

Do you recommend duals with all XFI?
I am with mine but he has some 1218s sitting there, are they ok?

Cheers

N4cer

iTrader: (11)

Screw Comp and Crane. Go with Futral since they use Cam Motion lobes. They always seem to make better track times than a similar Comp cam.

PREDATOR-Z

Yes, they are Ok if installed at proper height and seat pressures. If 1218s are used, I recommend Titanium retainers. The lighter the effective moving mass, the better with beehives.

PowerTalk

Thanks a bunch! That will save him some extra coin no doubt.

I assume Im still better off running the PP Golds as I haven't purchased the springs yet myself

PREDATOR-Z

Show me 1 Cammotion lobes in the top 5 of the fastest list. They are good, but not agressive enough. Again you are generalising by looking at .050 specs while that is just 1 facet of a cam spec. There is ramp rate, design (symetrical or assymetric), lifts at .006, .200 and .400
All of these determine how a cam behaves.

PREDATOR-Z

Yes for everyday use, much better safety cushion.

JPH

iTrader: (2)

I've used Crane beehive springs (#99831-16) on 224/232 (lshs/hr5) lobe stuff with stock steel retainers and haven't had any issues.(I turn the motor 6500max) I think the stock "steel" retainer is only like 4 grams heavier than an aftermarket beehive TI retainer, if I'm not mistaken. What are the specs on the #1218s again?

PowerTalk

Just found this:

PAC-1218 Set of 16
Browse by Category: Beehive Springs
Click to view this Product

Beehive LS1 Spring
OD: 1.290"
130 lbs @ 1.800"
318 lbs @ 1.200"
Lift: 0.600"

Set of 16

224XFI would be .609 though and 230XFI exhaust would be .604

PREDATOR-Z

That is why I said "at proper height and seat pressures"
Meaning shim the spring to .050 of coilbind. That increases seat pressures (open/closed).
I've done that with Comp 918s (same) on .612 lift XE-R with no issues for 15K miles.

If he gets the 1518s he still has to install at recommended height which still might require shims on some valves unless they are all perfectly seated equal.