wow.... my harmonic balancer just flew off... help
06-18-2009, 12:12 AM
#1
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wow.... my harmonic balancer just flew off... help I was gunning my new car and the balancer flew off..... i instantly pressed in the clutch and the car shut itself off after i heard two loud bangs (the pulley bouncing around)... I had to tow it home, and thats when i inspected it visually...
The crank is sitting straight, but im terrified that something might have happened... there is no visual damage, and didnt spill any fluids (except a tiny bit of oil from the front main, while it was still rolling)...
Is there something i can do to ensure nothing bad happened?
So what do yall think my damage is?
Do you think ill be okay with a new pulley and bolt???
Car is a 02 ws6 w/ a 402c.i. Stroker LS2....
If anyone has a SLP pulley.. i need it btw
HELP!!
The crank is sitting straight, but im terrified that something might have happened... there is no visual damage, and didnt spill any fluids (except a tiny bit of oil from the front main, while it was still rolling)...
Is there something i can do to ensure nothing bad happened?
So what do yall think my damage is?
Do you think ill be okay with a new pulley and bolt???
Car is a 02 ws6 w/ a 402c.i. Stroker LS2....
If anyone has a SLP pulley.. i need it btw
HELP!!
06-18-2009, 02:32 AM
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as long at your pulley wasnt out of balance " my thoughts" would be that it should be fine since our motors are internally balanced. as long as the pulley wasnt "wobbling" for a while which might could have thrown the "trueness" of the crank off
06-18-2009, 10:16 AM
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i dont think it was wobbling.... i would have noticed it. Thats good to hear.... i ordered a new pulley in and will keep this updated...
How far back in the crank are the threads bor the balancer bolt??
How far back in the crank are the threads bor the balancer bolt??
06-18-2009, 12:02 PM
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it probably wasnt torqued down tight enough when the motor was assembled. I know those bolts are supposed to be tighter that S*&$. seen one come off on a vette once when the bolt wasnt tightened enough right after a cam swap. hopefully nothing was hurt on ur setup
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06-20-2009, 09:08 AM
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+1 mine also flew off. I coasted off the motorway about 2min. It still started and ran without it, but I had it towed.
My crank had a keyway, so I got a keyed underdrive fitted in replacement.
You will need to check the pulley the surface of the pulley and the crank seal might be screwed. Like the the other dude said, try and get one keyed to your crank. You can do that by drilling the crank with a special clamp and drifting a steel pin in between the crank and the pulley.
Then tighten it down properly.
My crank had a keyway, so I got a keyed underdrive fitted in replacement.
You will need to check the pulley the surface of the pulley and the crank seal might be screwed. Like the the other dude said, try and get one keyed to your crank. You can do that by drilling the crank with a special clamp and drifting a steel pin in between the crank and the pulley.
Then tighten it down properly.
06-20-2009, 10:47 AM
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+1 mine also flew off. I coasted off the motorway about 2min. It still started and ran without it, but I had it towed.
My crank had a keyway, so I got a keyed underdrive fitted in replacement.
You will need to check the pulley the surface of the pulley and the crank seal might be screwed. Like the the other dude said, try and get one keyed to your crank. You can do that by drilling the crank with a special clamp and drifting a steel pin in between the crank and the pulley.
Then tighten it down properly.
My crank had a keyway, so I got a keyed underdrive fitted in replacement.
You will need to check the pulley the surface of the pulley and the crank seal might be screwed. Like the the other dude said, try and get one keyed to your crank. You can do that by drilling the crank with a special clamp and drifting a steel pin in between the crank and the pulley.
Then tighten it down properly.
An Harmonic Balancer or Underdrive Pulley beeing loose for some seconds might induce multitude of bad vibrations inside your engine internals...having the Timing Set Gear Bolts comming loose is apparently first on the list!!!!!
That's what I got from HKE.
Christian
06-20-2009, 11:41 AM
#13
Who built the engine and how long ago? If I was you I would get with them and do what they say (if you was me the car would be running already
). They might be willing to help you out some. Also I am sure they will want to know about this if for no other reason then quality control.
). They might be willing to help you out some. Also I am sure they will want to know about this if for no other reason then quality control.
06-22-2009, 05:34 AM
#14
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THAT'S A VERY BAD MOVE according to Erik Koenig (racer7088) and following the numerous emails exchanged with him...
An Harmonic Balancer or Underdrive Pulley beeing loose for some seconds might induce multitude of bad vibrations inside your engine internals...having the Timing Set Gear Bolts comming loose is apparently first on the list!!!!!
That's what I got from HKE.
Christian
An Harmonic Balancer or Underdrive Pulley beeing loose for some seconds might induce multitude of bad vibrations inside your engine internals...having the Timing Set Gear Bolts comming loose is apparently first on the list!!!!!
That's what I got from HKE.
Christian
It fell off under decel.
06-22-2009, 06:07 AM
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On my new engine the new ASP came loose after 46 miles arriving home at the last stop light IDLING for less than ONE minute before I shut it down...
The ASP doesn't show any sign of abuse stress:
The consequences are ENORMOUS (the new shortblock is destroy) with the THREE timing gear bolts completely LOOSE:
I was not warned initially of the damages caused by an unscrewed Harmonic Balancer...but Erik Koenig is affirmative...
A loose Underdrive Pulley is making the timing gear bolts loose... and it will destroy the engine...
Christian
06-22-2009, 09:03 AM
#16
My 1976 TA 400 came from Pontiac with just the hub and no dampener on the hub. I am NOT saying it is not important, just that the type of damage that will occur from a bad dampener or a loose one will take plenty of time to hurt anything. I bet everything is fine, and make sure you torque the new crankshaft bolt to the OEM specs!!!
Did you get a chance to let the builder know what happened?
06-22-2009, 09:38 AM
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Don't worry about it. The balancer on our internally balanced engine is not a balancer, but instead a dampener. It is designed to reduce torsional vibration. It is supposed to protect the rod bearings, main bearings, timing chain, valve train and prevent the crankshaft from splitting due to torsional vibrations. I personally would not worry about damaging the engine from when it came off. I would be more concerned with all the time it was run with the dampener loose. It would have been loose for some time before it came off. Being loose it can not absorb the torsional vibrations as designed.
My 1976 TA 400 came from Pontiac with just the hub and no dampener on the hub. I am NOT saying it is not important, just that the type of damage that will occur from a bad dampener or a loose one will take plenty of time to hurt anything. I bet everything is fine, and make sure you torque the new crankshaft bolt to the OEM specs!!!
I took only ~400 miles from the moment where the UD Pulley came loose to complete destruction of a new short-block...
Christian
06-22-2009, 06:34 PM
#18
I would think the camshaft bolts were not torqued and lock tighted properly. I do agree that the torsional vibrations could also played a role in it too. For piece of mind it would be a good idea to check them in this situation before installing the new dampener. It would also be advisable to place a dial indicator on the end of the shaft and check the crankshaft run out to make certain the nose of the crank is not bent from throwing the dampener off of it. I would think that it would be more likely that whom ever built the engine not only did not torque the crankshaft bolt properly to OEM specs, but also did not torque the camshaft bolts to proper specs either. the thinking to me would be if they did not do one right then why assume they did any bolt torqueing correctly. There are several different engines over the years that were/are designed from the factory that, believe it or not, do not incorporate a dampener. There are actually professional race engines that do not use them as well. Do not get me wrong, our engine require the use of one due to their design. The problem with a dampener coming off is that it is proof that it has been loose for more then a few seconds or miles. When it is loose it can not absorb the torsional vibration it is design to cancel out of the crankshaft, so you have a prolonged period were the crankshaft bearings, camshaft timing components, valve train and crank end up absorbing the torsionals which lead to premature bearing failure, crankshaft breakage, timing component wear, and valve train failure. But it is not going to happen instantly. To give an example, my stock 76 400 Pontiac that was designed with no dampener from the factory did not fail (spun rod bearing) until it had 80,000+ miles on it. In your case, I you have plenty of proof the person who assembled your engine (both Miami's and Candy's) did not torque the dampener properly and therefore it would be logical to believe they did not torque anything properly. That statement will most likely upset the person who built these two engines but that’s what logic points to. I bet they torqued the rods properly and the mains. Most people put alot of care to torque those two items, but I have seen a lot of builders over the years that just hand tighten the camshaft bolts, and use an impact on the crankshaft bolt. It can be a pain in the **** to torque the crankshaft bolt to the OEM specs while the engine is on the engine stand. That much torque will almost make the stand fall over. Not fallowing OEM torque procedures on these two items is not uncommon.
Like I said before, it would be a good idea to double check the camshaft bolts while the dampener is still off. Other then that I doubt it had run long enough to hurt the crankshaft bearings, crankshaft, or the valve train.
Like I said before, it would be a good idea to double check the camshaft bolts while the dampener is still off. Other then that I doubt it had run long enough to hurt the crankshaft bearings, crankshaft, or the valve train.
