Is it Worth swapping from ported l92's/l76 to TFS 225/235'S on a 402CI?
07-26-2009, 03:23 PM
#1
Is it Worth swapping from ported l92's/l76 to TFS 225/235'S on a 402CI? Have a 402ci with ported l92's w/l76 intake,m6 car,ect. 495hp 458tq closed cutout 517hp 468tq with open cutout on a mustang dyno. 10.89@128mph on motor. I NEED MORE. So,should I wait for the new fast intake,port it and hope for a 20hp gain. Or swap to TFS 225 heads,ported fast and new cam? I want to get a 10.49 car in the 1/4mi what would get me the most power. Are the tfs heads that good to make a big gain over the ported l92's? Thanks,mike c.
Last edited by mike c.; 07-27-2009 at 04:54 PM.
07-26-2009, 04:19 PM
#2
My god...TFS has the worst website I've ever seen, makes you just want to get the hell out of there.
Whats the flow numbers of the 225/235 heads?
The L92's after porting are good for mid 360's. If your L92's and L76 aren't ported yet, that along with a new can should get you to 520-530 RWHP. There's a bunch of 530 RWHP 416's around here with 230 sized cams and ported L92/L76 combos. They idle great.
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Whats the flow numbers of the 225/235 heads?
The L92's after porting are good for mid 360's. If your L92's and L76 aren't ported yet, that along with a new can should get you to 520-530 RWHP. There's a bunch of 530 RWHP 416's around here with 230 sized cams and ported L92/L76 combos. They idle great.
.
07-27-2009, 06:55 AM
#3
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Looking at the Trickflow web site their cnc heads flow about the same as ported 92's. The only advantage of switching to them are you choice of manifolds. You might make 20 more hp with a better manifold. The 225 heads might make a little more, so you would be real close to your goal. The price in my opinion is to high. Are you maxed out on your present combo. Knock a couple tenths off your 60 foot times and you would be close to your goal. A custom ground cam might give you 20-25 more hp then your present combo.
I would look at fine tuning your present combo, If you haven't done so already.
I would look at fine tuning your present combo, If you haven't done so already.
07-27-2009, 07:17 PM
#5
I'm feeding my 441 with the L76 intake, maybe it's starving it a bit but I would think it's fine for your 402. If you were going to go solid roller I'd make the switch, if not just port the stock piece.
07-27-2009, 09:03 PM
#6
You will gain more by swapping to an L92 Victor single plane intake. The L76 is a wonderful manifold for a daily driven street car, but the single plane intake will allow much better cylinder filling (especially above 5500 rpm). What are your current cam specs? That could be an issue too.
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2018 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 Pat G tuned.
LS1,LS2,LS3,LS7,LT1 Custom Camshaft Specialist For custom camshaft help press here.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2018 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 Pat G tuned.
LS1,LS2,LS3,LS7,LT1 Custom Camshaft Specialist For custom camshaft help press here.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
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07-28-2009, 02:39 PM
#8
Stock l92 heads are already ported w/stock valves. The new F.A.S.T for the l92 's should be out soon,so no need to port the l76. This is a NEAR full weight car,a street car That runs 10's n/a not race car. I don't even have a roll cage in it,so no need for a solid roller cam.
PATRICK G- My cam is a LG Motorsport g6x3 236/244 I think? Are the stock valves hurting my l92's? Will the fast 101mm help out when it comes out? I was told I would gain some power and alot of tq going to a TFS 225 head and a ported fast 92mm,over the ported l92/l76.. Are these l92's just as good as a tfs Head? I'm just looking to gain more and move faster.
PATRICK G- My cam is a LG Motorsport g6x3 236/244 I think? Are the stock valves hurting my l92's? Will the fast 101mm help out when it comes out? I was told I would gain some power and alot of tq going to a TFS 225 head and a ported fast 92mm,over the ported l92/l76.. Are these l92's just as good as a tfs Head? I'm just looking to gain more and move faster.
Last edited by mike c.; 07-28-2009 at 03:05 PM.
07-28-2009, 03:04 PM
#9
The September 2009 Hot Rod Magazine has some excellent engine dyno sheets of a 6.0L topped with LS3 heads and the results of swapping various Comp Cams and posting results between the L76 EFI manifold and a Victor intake with a 4150 Holley carb. With a cam a little smaller than the OP is running, the single plane was worth 50 more hp than the L76 intake.
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2018 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 Pat G tuned.
LS1,LS2,LS3,LS7,LT1 Custom Camshaft Specialist For custom camshaft help press here.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2018 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 Pat G tuned.
LS1,LS2,LS3,LS7,LT1 Custom Camshaft Specialist For custom camshaft help press here.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
07-28-2009, 08:31 PM
#10
Curious to know what grind did they consider to be "the best"?
07-28-2009, 09:53 PM
#11
Mike what intake you runing? The Vic Jr with a acufab will give you more.
I'm doing a similar setup. I feel the LS3 type heads are the future. Don't give up yet. Look at cam combos. These heads I think have so much more potential than the cathedral type heads. I know how you feel, I ripped off my LS6 cathedral heads with a fast 92 after a week on the car. Wait for the 102 FAST and match a cam with the new air. Remember the early days of the LS1 where a cam selection was limited. There is more in her.
I'm doing a similar setup. I feel the LS3 type heads are the future. Don't give up yet. Look at cam combos. These heads I think have so much more potential than the cathedral type heads. I know how you feel, I ripped off my LS6 cathedral heads with a fast 92 after a week on the car. Wait for the 102 FAST and match a cam with the new air. Remember the early days of the LS1 where a cam selection was limited. There is more in her.
07-28-2009, 10:12 PM
#13
I don't see how going with 235's is going to get you much faster than what you have.
I mean 530RWHP is about all 402's are gonna make unless you start getting radical. L92/L76 is a pretty good top end.
.
07-29-2009, 05:09 PM
#14
Yes LS6427,you may be right. I see some doing close to 550hp but it's on a dynojet. Not all but I feel dynojets giveout numbers more easy. I was thinking of pulling the heads,having them flowed at livernoise next to their l92 head to see how well my heads are. If theire are better,I may have them run their cnc on mine. Then,the new fast intake should give some nice power over the l76. May be some better cams out too. I may just be maxed out on a 402ci. Maybe I'll sell this motor only 2,500mi on it,forged everything for $6,000 complete motor and start over with more CI's. Thanks,guys.
07-29-2009, 05:37 PM
#15
Yes LS6427,you may be right. I see some doing close to 550hp but it's on a dynojet. Not all but I feel dynojets giveout numbers more easy. I was thinking of pulling the heads,having them flowed at livernoise next to their l92 head to see how well my heads are. If theire are better,I may have them run their cnc on mine. Then,the new fast intake should give some nice power over the l76. May be some better cams out too. I may just be maxed out on a 402ci. Maybe I'll sell this motor only 2,500mi on it,forged everything for $6,000 complete motor and start over with more CI's. Thanks,guys.
I think a 427ci with the L92/L76 top end could make 550-570 RWHP with a good cam and 11.5:1 cr. But as soon as you start doing more cubes, now that top end and all the plastic intakes will become the weak links.
Next step would be the LS7 heads/intake/tb stuff.
.
07-29-2009, 10:16 PM
#18
Yes LS6427,you may be right. I see some doing close to 550hp but it's on a dynojet. Not all but I feel dynojets giveout numbers more easy. I was thinking of pulling the heads,having them flowed at livernoise next to their l92 head to see how well my heads are. If theire are better,I may have them run their cnc on mine. Then,the new fast intake should give some nice power over the l76. May be some better cams out too. I may just be maxed out on a 402ci. Maybe I'll sell this motor only 2,500mi on it,forged everything for $6,000 complete motor and start over with more CI's. Thanks,guys.
07-30-2009, 02:21 PM
#19
I know who ALLENC5 is and his set up is stout do doubt about it. But,we are on different dyno's(jet vs stang dyno) and they read different. If he were to go to the guy I use and make a pull and he made that power I'M SOLD AND WOULD COPY HIS SET UP 100%. Hell,if that happened I may even put a thanks to him on the back of my car. lol
08-01-2009, 07:11 PM
#20
Mike have you ever had your 402 on a dynojet?
With that H/C 346 I bought from you I made the same numbers you did on a stang dyno on a two different dynojets, different months and different tuners.
You made 463 on your stang dyno and I made 458 & 457 on two different dynojets. Then on a mustang dyno I made 464. Mustang dynos can be programmed to read like a dynojet.
With that H/C 346 I bought from you I made the same numbers you did on a stang dyno on a two different dynojets, different months and different tuners.
You made 463 on your stang dyno and I made 458 & 457 on two different dynojets. Then on a mustang dyno I made 464. Mustang dynos can be programmed to read like a dynojet.