Best Stock ported Cylinder head options for 416
03-25-2015, 10:46 PM
#1
Best Stock ported Cylinder head options for 416 I plan on going bigger cubes, spun a bearing in the LS1 the motors out. 408 or 416 forged most likely. Was wanting to go 427 LS3 but hear the other options will live longer with a 4 inch vs a 4.100 stroke. Anyway, I have a set of TFS 215s but I'm sure it would be better to go LS3 ported top end. Wanna stick with some stock ported castings to keep the cost down some. Texas Speed CNC LS3s are $1200 but to get the hollow valves its $350 more. Would I be better off finding a set & sending them to BTR? Wanna keep the compression around 11-11.5
03-26-2015, 07:43 AM
#2
TECH Veteran
Keep the TFS head for sure. 215cc is kinda small for a 408/416 but they can be open up for sure! I have seen AFR 205 heads do well on a 402 Ci and it performed well! Really well!!
The cathedral heads have greater velocity and with that being said you'll have awesome throttle response. Just get a great cam cut to match your whole COMBINATION.
Stay away from those 4.1 strokes. I wouldn't do anything over 4" stroke for a street car that's go see alot of miles.
The money you was go spend on heads I would take that money and aims it towards a ported fast intake by Tony Mamo.
The cathedral heads have greater velocity and with that being said you'll have awesome throttle response. Just get a great cam cut to match your whole COMBINATION.
Stay away from those 4.1 strokes. I wouldn't do anything over 4" stroke for a street car that's go see alot of miles.
The money you was go spend on heads I would take that money and aims it towards a ported fast intake by Tony Mamo.
03-26-2015, 11:20 AM
#3
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2 Best options IMHO
1. send your TFS 215s to
Frankenstein Racing have
Chris port/open to 225, 235
With 2.08-2.1" Intake Valves.
If possible. Best bang for your
Buck!
2. Sell TFS get MMS 235s
Tusky is right! For the street
Best Cathedral you can afford
+ Tony ported FAST 102.
Flame suit on. LOL!
1. send your TFS 215s to
Frankenstein Racing have
Chris port/open to 225, 235
With 2.08-2.1" Intake Valves.
If possible. Best bang for your
Buck!
2. Sell TFS get MMS 235s
Tusky is right! For the street
Best Cathedral you can afford
+ Tony ported FAST 102.
Flame suit on. LOL!
03-26-2015, 12:49 PM
#4
Well damn! My plan was to sell the TFS 215s, Ls6 intake & the YT rockers & buy LS3 heads, intake, fuel rails & rockers for about the same $$. Its almost an even trade. But I've heard the square ports don't work as good as cathedral. If I keep what I have I'll have to buy a fast 102, them arent cheap!
03-26-2015, 01:07 PM
#6
TECH Veteran
That cam never will work well with a LS3 head. LS3 heads respond well to a larger split and more lobe separation angle also. I can tell that cam was spec out for cathedral heads right off the bat. I hope you wasn't go install that cam in a LS3 headed 408/416. You got a good top end now so don't sell that!!
I'll make this clear..... what I'm about to say was passed to me by a reputable tuner that has a chassis dyno in his shop. A customer did a 410 ci with L92 heads made great horsepower the same as a 402 setup with a set of aftermarket cathedrals. Similar horsepower numbers on the graph was achieved but the TORQUE graphs looked completely different. The cathedral headed motor torque curve was damn near flat all the way across the board.... While the L92 headed torque curve looked more like a hill.....
03-26-2015, 01:36 PM
#7
Cams really should be matched to head flow and static compression ratio MUCH MORE than towards cubic inches.....
KW
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03-26-2015, 02:20 PM
#8
TECH Veteran
I wouldn't say Chris Frank heads isn't PROVEN.... After all he do ports those guys on street outlaws. Daddy Dave and Monza heads both came from Frankenstein.
03-26-2015, 03:05 PM
#9
TEA heads are proven. Trickflow heads are proven. FRH heads, aren't.
03-26-2015, 06:55 PM
#11
I laid out the short block, either a 408 or 416 w/ flat tops, valve reliefs & 11-11.5:1 compression. Once I decide on top end choice I'd have a cam spec'd. Wanted to ask a lil before I jump ship on cathedral top end stuff i have & go with the LS3 stuff. It seems cathedral port heads are favored over square ports for their velocity.
03-26-2015, 09:20 PM
#14
I'm a little new to ls1tech, buts its not like I was born yesterday.
03-26-2015, 09:44 PM
#15
Prove me wrong. Where's all the results like you see with AFR heads or TEA heads? How fast have his heads gone? Show me something.
Just because you never heard of them or seen anything doesn't mean they are "unproven".
03-26-2015, 09:48 PM
#16
If you have to search for hours for FRH heads, then I think you would only be proving my point. It would take only minutes to find impressive results for AFR or TEA/TFS heads.
03-26-2015, 09:50 PM
#17
If you have to search for hours for FRH heads, then I think you would only be proving my point. It would take only minutes to find impressive results for AFR or TEA/TFS heads.
Mass produced product vs. low volume/custom **** is not a good comparison.
You don't see nearly as many threads about Greg Good heads, for example, compared to AFR/TFS. But I highly doubt many people, if any, will consider his work "unproven" just because he does low volume of work and is very specific on what he works on.
03-26-2015, 09:58 PM
#18
I thought the Frank Chimera heads were being sent to Australia where 400 inch pro stock engines make 2.5 horse per cube. Pretty sure the guy understands airflow.
To the OP...your TFS 215s are an awfully nice cylinder head. I'd send those to Tony along with a good used FAST92 for a fresh/potent induction combo on top of a 416 incher. Ask him if he'd sign off on that cam that you already have....it looks decent to me...maybe not perfect but it would still run well.
To the OP...your TFS 215s are an awfully nice cylinder head. I'd send those to Tony along with a good used FAST92 for a fresh/potent induction combo on top of a 416 incher. Ask him if he'd sign off on that cam that you already have....it looks decent to me...maybe not perfect but it would still run well.
03-26-2015, 09:59 PM
#19
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The most simplistic way to put it for a given set cam. Different cam or engine combo would result in a different result, maybe* maybe not.
http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/...der-head-test/
What you have now is more than good enough with a custom CNC program or hand porting.
The main thing is to get what ever intake you choose to be ported to meet your lift requirements.
http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/...der-head-test/
What you have now is more than good enough with a custom CNC program or hand porting.
The main thing is to get what ever intake you choose to be ported to meet your lift requirements.
Last edited by lil john; 03-26-2015 at 10:06 PM.
03-26-2015, 10:09 PM
#20
Volume does not necessarily mean quality and performance. To you it seems that having 100 threads about how good AFR heads are vs. a handful of FRH ones means that those are better and proven.
Mass produced product vs. low volume/custom **** is not a good comparison.
You don't see nearly as many threads about Greg Good heads, for example, compared to AFR/TFS. But I highly doubt many people, if any, will consider his work "unproven" just because he does low volume of work and is very specific on what he works on.
Mass produced product vs. low volume/custom **** is not a good comparison.
You don't see nearly as many threads about Greg Good heads, for example, compared to AFR/TFS. But I highly doubt many people, if any, will consider his work "unproven" just because he does low volume of work and is very specific on what he works on.
For example, one "impressionable" result I can remember was when a guy claimed to have picked up 80whp over a set of AFR heads. I'm not saying Chris Frank doesn't know a thing or two about heads, but I don't think he's 80whp better than Tony Mamo's heads...