More power? H/C vs Stroke
12-31-2008, 08:19 AM
#1
More power? H/C vs Stroke I was looking into getting some good power for my car. Heard heads and a cam do wonders but was wondering what a stroker kit would do? Any input would be nice. Goals are 450rwhp but will settle for anything near that 
12-31-2008, 08:43 AM
#2
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The only replacement for displacement is HORSE POWER!
You can reach 450rwhp with a great Head/Cam combo, but that’s all your really going to reach with a stock short block (assuming it’s a 346 LS1) naturally aspirated. A great sep-up with tons of growing room would be a 370 cid (new 6.0L cast-iron block, factory GM LS1 crankshaft, Scat H-beam 6.125" connecting rods with ARP 8740 rod bolts, and Diamond Racing or Wiseco flat-top pistons with -2cc valve reliefs) for around $3000. With a great Head/Cam combo on this 370 you would be over the 450hp goal, with a lot more to build on.
Say the budget is $4000; you could go one of two ways.
A: 420+RWHP; a new 370cid short block with the stock heads, intake, and other items off the old LS1 with a good mild cam kit for the new motor.
B: 450RWHP (maybe); with a set on BADASS 225 Trick Flows CNC’d to flow crazy numbers and a radical custom ground cam.
I would go with “A”
You can reach 450rwhp with a great Head/Cam combo, but that’s all your really going to reach with a stock short block (assuming it’s a 346 LS1) naturally aspirated. A great sep-up with tons of growing room would be a 370 cid (new 6.0L cast-iron block, factory GM LS1 crankshaft, Scat H-beam 6.125" connecting rods with ARP 8740 rod bolts, and Diamond Racing or Wiseco flat-top pistons with -2cc valve reliefs) for around $3000. With a great Head/Cam combo on this 370 you would be over the 450hp goal, with a lot more to build on.
Say the budget is $4000; you could go one of two ways.
A: 420+RWHP; a new 370cid short block with the stock heads, intake, and other items off the old LS1 with a good mild cam kit for the new motor.
B: 450RWHP (maybe); with a set on BADASS 225 Trick Flows CNC’d to flow crazy numbers and a radical custom ground cam.
I would go with “A”
12-31-2008, 08:56 AM
#3
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450 rwhp is atainable with a well setup h/c.
a stoker will make the power easier (more street friendly), and likely make more torque.
the same h/c in a stroker will make more power, be more friendly, and probably more reliable (better internals).
what's you budget?
a stoker will make the power easier (more street friendly), and likely make more torque.
the same h/c in a stroker will make more power, be more friendly, and probably more reliable (better internals).
what's you budget?
12-31-2008, 09:01 AM
#4
Im going to be saving up for this so I would say $4000 will be my budget. And I have the 346 LS1. Street friendly would help but would I need to get a new engine to do that? Or just a new rotating assembly? Kinda new to the internals as far as stroke goes.
12-31-2008, 12:29 PM
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I made 507rwhp with a H/C on a stock LS1 346... but my H/C setup with FAST 90/90, bolt ons and exhaust would blow away that $4K mark.
You would probobly get to 450HP with $4K if you use cheaper heads, stick to a ported LS6 intake and so on. I hit 450 with CARTEK 5.3 heads and an LS6 intake about 3 years ago. Not that hard to do.
You would probobly get to 450HP with $4K if you use cheaper heads, stick to a ported LS6 intake and so on. I hit 450 with CARTEK 5.3 heads and an LS6 intake about 3 years ago. Not that hard to do.
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12-31-2008, 02:28 PM
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Now, if you wanted to go the cheapest route possible you could go with a Forged 347 with stock crank; but for $700 more you get an iron block 370 with forged rods and pistons…
Is this making any sense???
347 LS1 with forged rods and pistons…$2900 http://www.texas-speed.com/shop/item...id=42&catid=27
383 LS1 with forged rods, pistons and stroker crank…$3650 http://www.texas-speed.com/shop/item...id=43&catid=86
370 iron block with forged rods and pistons…$2900 http://www.texas-speed.com/shop/item...d=683&catid=83
408 iron block with forged rods, pistons and stroker crank…$3475 http://www.texas-speed.com/shop/item...id=46&catid=28
414 LS2 with forged rods, pistons and stroker crank…$4000 http://www.texas-speed.com/shop/item...d=825&catid=28
12-31-2008, 02:35 PM
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Best way to get above and beyond your goal N/A would be increasing displacement. "There is NO REPLACEMENT FOR DISPLACEMENT!"
Like suggested, try to find a cheap 6.0 Iron Block (LQ9/LQ4), but bore and stroke it to a 408 or bigger, IMO. You can re-use just about everything from your LS1 on the "new" engine to save money too. This will give you big power and big torque, without having to "over cam" it.
Like suggested, try to find a cheap 6.0 Iron Block (LQ9/LQ4), but bore and stroke it to a 408 or bigger, IMO. You can re-use just about everything from your LS1 on the "new" engine to save money too. This will give you big power and big torque, without having to "over cam" it.
12-31-2008, 02:40 PM
#10
For 4k and 450 rwhp I'd go h/c if you had no further aspirations with the car.
BUT if your only going to get to 450 get used to the power and then say I want more then a 408 short block would be my choice. Best bang for the buck. You could do a short block and put your current top end back on and probably be where you want power wise then when money permits do the top end.
A good AFR h/c setup will net you great low and mid range power. Mamo has done this time and time again with his 224/228 cam. Best thing is you dont lose bottom end with the setup vs mid to top end range set ups that arent exactly street friendly.
Do you want a fast street car or are you looking for 1/4 mile at time car.
All depends on your plans for the car in the future. I see both of them as being viable.
BUT if your only going to get to 450 get used to the power and then say I want more then a 408 short block would be my choice. Best bang for the buck. You could do a short block and put your current top end back on and probably be where you want power wise then when money permits do the top end.
A good AFR h/c setup will net you great low and mid range power. Mamo has done this time and time again with his 224/228 cam. Best thing is you dont lose bottom end with the setup vs mid to top end range set ups that arent exactly street friendly.
Do you want a fast street car or are you looking for 1/4 mile at time car.
All depends on your plans for the car in the future. I see both of them as being viable.
12-31-2008, 02:47 PM
#11
1969mach1 - It makes plenty of since to me and I appreciate all the help everyone has put in this. My car MIGHT see the track - more for street than anything. Would like to put down a few 1/4 times to see where I am. Brother has a 07 GT that he is putting parts on so he can smoke me - hahaha. Im saving up to blow him off the road. Plus I want to build it right, build it strong, and build it once. Will probably look into some more power down the road as I get used to the new setup.
and I appreciate all the help everyone has put in this. My car MIGHT see the track - more for street than anything. Would like to put down a few 1/4 times to see where I am. Brother has a 07 GT that he is putting parts on so he can smoke me - hahaha. Im saving up to blow him off the road. Plus I want to build it right, build it strong, and build it once. Will probably look into some more power down the road as I get used to the new setup. 
12-31-2008, 02:55 PM
#13
1969mach1 - It makes plenty of since to me and I appreciate all the help everyone has put in this. My car MIGHT see the track - more for street than anything. Would like to put down a few 1/4 times to see where I am. Brother has a 07 GT that he is putting parts on so he can smoke me - hahaha. Im saving up to blow him off the road.
and I appreciate all the help everyone has put in this. My car MIGHT see the track - more for street than anything. Would like to put down a few 1/4 times to see where I am. Brother has a 07 GT that he is putting parts on so he can smoke me - hahaha. Im saving up to blow him off the road.Then go with the 408, your future plans will be greatly enhanced by the iron block. Our 408's are a little more money but they're built for purpose.
If you buy heads right now to maximize the 346 they wont be great to maximize bigger cubes later down the road if you go that way so take that all into consideration. Of course premium heads hold their value more so you can always get good resale on them but a solid game plan even if its a 5 year plan is the best way to not waste money.
12-31-2008, 03:01 PM
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Do you have plans on going F/I, either turbo or supercharger???
Adding the little extra stroke also adds weight and slows down the rate of rotation. Yes is adds cubic inches which will create the ability to move more air; but it too comes with a cost. We are talking about 38 cid. At 1hp per cubic inch that’s 38hp, I agree… THERE IS NO REPLACEMENT FOR DISPLACEMENT but HORSEPOWER… the difference between the 370 and 408 is $800. Besides the shorter stroked motor will get to the peak Horsepower quicker, there are Pros and Cons to every build and the 408 is a great build…for a forced induction build. The 370 is a better build for a Naturally Aspirated build. The rod length to stroke ratio is better suited for a N/A or nitrous build.
Adding the little extra stroke also adds weight and slows down the rate of rotation. Yes is adds cubic inches which will create the ability to move more air; but it too comes with a cost. We are talking about 38 cid. At 1hp per cubic inch that’s 38hp, I agree… THERE IS NO REPLACEMENT FOR DISPLACEMENT but HORSEPOWER… the difference between the 370 and 408 is $800. Besides the shorter stroked motor will get to the peak Horsepower quicker, there are Pros and Cons to every build and the 408 is a great build…for a forced induction build. The 370 is a better build for a Naturally Aspirated build. The rod length to stroke ratio is better suited for a N/A or nitrous build.
12-31-2008, 04:10 PM
#18
Swapped was heads, cam, pushrods, fast 90/90, water pump, qtp headers,
Time differances:
I live in Colorado so keep that in mind with times. bandimere speedway 5.800 feet
Stock LS1 14.4
LS1 Old set up h/c 12.8's
New 408: 11.6
w/Nitrous 10.7's (150 shot)
12-31-2008, 04:24 PM
#19
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Look into the Vengeance racing vindicator h/c package. That with one of their ported 90/90 combos almost always nets close to 500whp. even in a big stalled auto. I saw that car put down 470/450 on a dyno the supposedly reads low and being stopped about 500 rom short. I think all that with tuning was right around $4K.
