BMW M3 gets juice and needs your valuable experience
12-25-2003, 04:32 PM
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BMW M3 gets juice and needs your valuable experience I am a new to the forum and would like to get help:
Car is a turbocharged BMW M3 3,2L engine (yeah small block and little displacement) 30 psi of boost gives around 900 hp. I bought a NX DP kit adjustable between 150 and 375 hp. I also purchased a Maximizer from NX too. At the end, if we can successfully tune the N2O system we may end up with 1000+ hp.
1- On an inline 6 cylinder engine (the one I have got, a BMW M3) would it be better to have equal length of each line of nitrous oxide and fuel? So, each cylinder receives at the same time and 99,99% equal amounts of N2O and fuel. In order to achieve this, what do you recommend? 3rd and 4th cylinders' N2O and fuel lines are easily trimmed as the selenoids are mounted in between these cylinders. Should I use longer lines for the 3rd and 4th cylinders to equalize the feed lines coming from the selenoids?
2- About the fuel pressure safety switch: is it better to install it before or after the fuel selenoid? Would it be better to install the fpss after the selenoid so we can monitor and control the real fuel pressure? Cause there may be some pressure drop through the selenoid.
3- About the maximizer: is there anyone using the maximizer and has some recomendations? I could not find a timing retarder for my car. For that reason timing will be retarded by the piggyback system.
4- Nozzle mounting: The M3 engine has six individual throttle bodies. We can either install the nozzles after the throttle bodies and have the most direct spray into the combustion chamber or mount the nozzles on the intake manifold where the juice and fuel mixture have to travel through the runners. BTW the intake runners are about 2 inches long. So, either after each throttle body or on the intake runners?
5- I like to monitor the fuel pressure inside the car. Can I install a separate fuel pressure gauge inside the car and monitor the fuel pressure?
6- We will start with 150 shot jets (the smallest jets out of the kit) and pulse via Maximizer. I fear of not being able to control the pulsing and and hitting 150 shot at once. How can I be sure that the Maximizer works properly?
7- About the purge valve: Is it mounted before the n2o selenoid? Easiest question but donno.
Some of the questions may be very simple to answer. However, I cannot get any proper answers. I know N2O has a bad reputation of damaging engines. This is because of A- bad tuning, B- lack of safety devices (rpm switch, fuel safety switch...) C- too big of a shot. As a conclusion, I would like to get your experience and knowlegde which would be very worthy for me.
Mert
Car is a turbocharged BMW M3 3,2L engine (yeah small block and little displacement) 30 psi of boost gives around 900 hp. I bought a NX DP kit adjustable between 150 and 375 hp. I also purchased a Maximizer from NX too. At the end, if we can successfully tune the N2O system we may end up with 1000+ hp.
1- On an inline 6 cylinder engine (the one I have got, a BMW M3) would it be better to have equal length of each line of nitrous oxide and fuel? So, each cylinder receives at the same time and 99,99% equal amounts of N2O and fuel. In order to achieve this, what do you recommend? 3rd and 4th cylinders' N2O and fuel lines are easily trimmed as the selenoids are mounted in between these cylinders. Should I use longer lines for the 3rd and 4th cylinders to equalize the feed lines coming from the selenoids?
2- About the fuel pressure safety switch: is it better to install it before or after the fuel selenoid? Would it be better to install the fpss after the selenoid so we can monitor and control the real fuel pressure? Cause there may be some pressure drop through the selenoid.
3- About the maximizer: is there anyone using the maximizer and has some recomendations? I could not find a timing retarder for my car. For that reason timing will be retarded by the piggyback system.
4- Nozzle mounting: The M3 engine has six individual throttle bodies. We can either install the nozzles after the throttle bodies and have the most direct spray into the combustion chamber or mount the nozzles on the intake manifold where the juice and fuel mixture have to travel through the runners. BTW the intake runners are about 2 inches long. So, either after each throttle body or on the intake runners?
5- I like to monitor the fuel pressure inside the car. Can I install a separate fuel pressure gauge inside the car and monitor the fuel pressure?
6- We will start with 150 shot jets (the smallest jets out of the kit) and pulse via Maximizer. I fear of not being able to control the pulsing and and hitting 150 shot at once. How can I be sure that the Maximizer works properly?
7- About the purge valve: Is it mounted before the n2o selenoid? Easiest question but donno.
Some of the questions may be very simple to answer. However, I cannot get any proper answers. I know N2O has a bad reputation of damaging engines. This is because of A- bad tuning, B- lack of safety devices (rpm switch, fuel safety switch...) C- too big of a shot. As a conclusion, I would like to get your experience and knowlegde which would be very worthy for me.
Mert
12-25-2003, 04:40 PM
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Only contribution i can make is from my experience with a M Roadster. He put the nozzle too close to the motor and it didnt atomize and only hit about 3 cylinders and didnt take long to kill the motor. I would put it as far away from the motor as possible. And its my honest hope that motor is frickin built to hell.
12-25-2003, 04:51 PM
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Venkman thanks for the instant reply. So, it will be better to allow the mixture to mix. But, as far as for the atomization, it can be done only by pressure. So, when n2o and fuel come out of the nozzles there is no way to atomize them. Fuel and n2o are atomized right at the exit of the nozzle. Unless the mixture is hold under pressure of a different gas. Maybe the air which is coming from the turbocharger (30 psi) will atomize them. But 30 psi seems to low for atmizing this juice and fuel.
My english is not so good. What do you mean by "the motor is frickin built to hell" ?
My english is not so good. What do you mean by "the motor is frickin built to hell" ?
12-25-2003, 05:09 PM
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He means that 30psi is a tremendous amount of boost for a motor to withstand. It will take a very strong motor (internally) to withstand that much boost and nitrous oxide.
To me, that sounds like a recipe for disaster. Mixing power adders at that level of boost isn't the best way to go in my opinion. I feel your better off with more boost from a tuning standpoint.
To me, that sounds like a recipe for disaster. Mixing power adders at that level of boost isn't the best way to go in my opinion. I feel your better off with more boost from a tuning standpoint.
12-25-2003, 05:27 PM
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Unit 213,
I sometimes think the same way as you mentioned.
But I already have the NX kit.
There will too much stress on the engine and internal parts: 30 psi, 8200-8500 redline, n2o. I know it is not easy. Too difficult and too dangerous.
I sometimes think the same way as you mentioned.
But I already have the NX kit.
There will too much stress on the engine and internal parts: 30 psi, 8200-8500 redline, n2o. I know it is not easy. Too difficult and too dangerous.
12-25-2003, 08:51 PM
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ok,
1) some ppl will argue that it needs to be same length, but look at the NXL Kit, not equal length. It doesnt matter.
2)The FPSS mounts off the rail, or test port. Once pressure drops below wet psi, shuts off DP Kit.
3)Sorry, I spray out the hole for now.
4)Since it is a DP kit, I would mount after TB somewhere in the intake tract just before the cylinder. Unlike the aforementioned example, you shouldnt worry about atomization using a DP kit and mounting XXXX far away.
5)yes, as long as you have an electrical gauge and sending unit.
6)see 3. Also, I am sure you can safely see if it is pulsing, leave bottle off, test it with fuel only.
7)most purges are mounted right onto the inlet side of the N2O solenoid. So, yeah before.
Your right about the tuning and etc messing up engines. As well as straight up failure from overload. If you are pushing 30psi and spray that is a nice lot of work for an engine...but sounds fun as hell. I wouldnt spray ontop of FI, unless it was an intake charge cooler/intercooler spray bar type. But I dont do FI, just Nitrous.
Charlie
1) some ppl will argue that it needs to be same length, but look at the NXL Kit, not equal length. It doesnt matter.
2)The FPSS mounts off the rail, or test port. Once pressure drops below wet psi, shuts off DP Kit.
3)Sorry, I spray out the hole for now.
4)Since it is a DP kit, I would mount after TB somewhere in the intake tract just before the cylinder. Unlike the aforementioned example, you shouldnt worry about atomization using a DP kit and mounting XXXX far away.
5)yes, as long as you have an electrical gauge and sending unit.
6)see 3. Also, I am sure you can safely see if it is pulsing, leave bottle off, test it with fuel only.
7)most purges are mounted right onto the inlet side of the N2O solenoid. So, yeah before.
Your right about the tuning and etc messing up engines. As well as straight up failure from overload. If you are pushing 30psi and spray that is a nice lot of work for an engine...but sounds fun as hell. I wouldnt spray ontop of FI, unless it was an intake charge cooler/intercooler spray bar type. But I dont do FI, just Nitrous.
Charlie
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12-26-2003, 02:16 PM
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I definitely wouldn't start out with a 150 shot. And a 150 shot on that motor would probably make well over 1000hp, if this is all legit. What size turbo are you running, and how do you keep from lifting a head?
12-26-2003, 04:45 PM
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SMOKIN V8
I could not find ARP fasteners for the Euro M3 engine. Got studs from Race Ware Fasteners.
We found one weird thing: The washers below the studs' nuts cracked. Not all of the washers but half of them. Donno why the washers cracked. We did have detonation and melted a piston but it has nothing to do with pistons. Maybe the extreme pressure spikes due to detonation forced the nuts and cracked the washers. So washers acted as a fuse. If the head does not lift off under pressure spikes of detonation it may stay there under boost and juice. Noone can say a certain thing till we see.
The inline has small displacement but revs excellent.
Stock M3 revs 7600 rpm. We will rev 8500 rpm. With lighter JE pistons, different vibration damper.
I could not find ARP fasteners for the Euro M3 engine. Got studs from Race Ware Fasteners.
We found one weird thing: The washers below the studs' nuts cracked. Not all of the washers but half of them. Donno why the washers cracked. We did have detonation and melted a piston but it has nothing to do with pistons. Maybe the extreme pressure spikes due to detonation forced the nuts and cracked the washers. So washers acted as a fuse. If the head does not lift off under pressure spikes of detonation it may stay there under boost and juice. Noone can say a certain thing till we see.
The inline has small displacement but revs excellent.
Stock M3 revs 7600 rpm. We will rev 8500 rpm. With lighter JE pistons, different vibration damper.
01-01-2004, 11:06 PM
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This whole setup is very extreme. What type of turbo are you using? What compression are you running? And for godsakes, please take pics. I believe quite a few people are wanting to see this.
01-02-2004, 03:55 AM
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TNTZ: I use a Garret twin ball bearing with water and oil cooling features. It is rated 700 hp at 14,7 psi. We do boost 30 psi and the air temperatures after the intercooler are quite close to the ambient temps.
Compression ratio is 6,8:1. The head design is so superior that most of the mechanicals or head specialists do not want to work on it. The stock engine is a 3,2L and 321 hp unit, so very efficient.
With the turbochargers we have not got many pics but we will have many soon. Also you can check my webpage and see the car in the supercharger set up back in 2002.
http://www.racingflix.com/getvideo.asp?v=344&p=5
http://www.racingflix.com/getvideo.asp?v=345&p=5
http://www.racingflix.com/getvideo.asp?v=348&p=5
These are the mpegs we made when the car was supercharged and made only a miserable 415 hp. Now we will go over 1,000hp soon with the juice.
Have fun with the mpegs.
Compression ratio is 6,8:1. The head design is so superior that most of the mechanicals or head specialists do not want to work on it. The stock engine is a 3,2L and 321 hp unit, so very efficient.
With the turbochargers we have not got many pics but we will have many soon. Also you can check my webpage and see the car in the supercharger set up back in 2002.
http://www.racingflix.com/getvideo.asp?v=344&p=5
http://www.racingflix.com/getvideo.asp?v=345&p=5
http://www.racingflix.com/getvideo.asp?v=348&p=5
These are the mpegs we made when the car was supercharged and made only a miserable 415 hp. Now we will go over 1,000hp soon with the juice.
Have fun with the mpegs.
12-12-2004, 11:17 AM
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These are the mpegs we made when the car was supercharged and made only a miserable 415 hp. Now we will go over 1,000hp soon with the juice.
Have fun with the mpegs.[/QUOTE]
1000hp, but how much TQ?
Have fun with the mpegs.[/QUOTE]
1000hp, but how much TQ?
12-15-2004, 12:31 AM
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just looked at when it was started jeez that's one bad m2 though if it really can make that much power. I'm not doubting it though with money anything is possible.