Conversions & Hybrids - Checklist for Purchasing a Donor Engine

This is my first post but I've been ghosting for a while gathering info from here and the rest of the web. The reason I've been hanging around is I'm getting ready to do a 5.3 conversion in my 1992 Jeep Wrangler. In my search for a motor I've been to salvage yards and had the opportunity to look at some of junk :barf: for sale on craigslist. After going out and looking at six different engines and walking away from all of them I decided to make this checklist to use while I continue my search:

5.3L "Take Out" Engine Specs

VIN Number from donor vehicle - Either a copy of a title, proof of insurance, registration or some confirmation of ownership or transfer. No VIN, No deal. VIN Provided will be cross checked to engine block. A bill of sale will need to be provided. For person to person transactions complete page 2.

VIN# __________________________________________________ _______

Engine should be a 2003 or later build – Earlier engines had issues with piston noise. Verify on the vehicle build date or use VIN Date Code. VIN Date is position #10 in the 17 digit code. X=1999, Y=2000, 1=2001, 2=2002, 3=2003, 4=2004, 5=2005 6=2006, 7=2007, 8=2008, 9=2001, A=2010.

VIN Date Code or build date _______________________________________

Engine must be fully dressed – Meaning engine was pulled in a running condition. With the exception of cut hoses it must be complete and unmolested meaning all accessories have not been removed such as:

Power Steering Pump
Alternator
Idler Pully
Tensioner
Exhaust Manifolds (Truck preferred)
Intake Manifold
Injectors
Coils
A/C Compressor. If it's there I'll use it and convert it to an Onboard Air Compressor.

Note: A “Longblock” with a pile of parts and a bag of bolts is not preferred and will be carefully considered.

Complete Wire Harness – Must be uncut with all connectors still on it with everything from the engine to the ECM. Harness should be in it's factory configuration (unmodified) also.

Transmission Harness - For 4L60E. Also includes the rear O2 Sensor connector(s).

OBDII Connector and Harness – From under the dash. Needed for future diagnostics.

PDB – Power Distribution Box (Underhood Fuse/Relay box) with fuses and relays installed and unmolested.

ECU – Confirm ECU is correct for the Reluctor (Gray = 58 or Black = 24) and Drive by Wire. Gray (58 tooth) reluctor sensor engines are not compatible with drive by cable setup. Truck Ecu's part numbers by MY are: 2003 = 12576106, 2005-2006 = 125862432 or 12583560, 2007 = 12597121. Confirm ECU matches the plug.

Oxygen Sensors – Low mileage engines only. High mileage should be replaced with new.

MAF – Mass Air Flow Sensor. Confirm Wire Harness is intact also.

Exhaust Down Pipe – At minimum a section from the Flanges to 3” past the O2 Bung for both RH & LH.

Accelerator Pedal & TAC Module – Only if Drive by Wire. Avoid pedals from adjustable height systems. 2005+ Pedals have integral Tac Module. Other years are separate and there are numerous combinations.

Page 1 of 2



Seller Statement:

I hereby confirm that I am the rightful owner of this engine assembly and all supporting components listed on page 1 and that I have full rights to sell to the purchaser. I assure that all of the items presented to the purchaser have been removed only from the vehicle (VIN #) listed on page 1.

VIN # __________________________________________________ ________

Sale Price __________________________________________________ _____

Name______________________________________________ _____________

Address __________________________________________________ ______

Telephone_________________________________________ ______________

Seller Signature/Date______________________________________________


Purchaser Statement:

I hereby agree to purchase this Engine Assembly and all supporting components listed on page 1 and agree that the items are being purchased “AS IS” and with out a warranty of any kind.


Purchaser Signature/Date___________________________________________



Note: One copy to Seller and one copy to Purchaser.


Page 2 of 2

There are some format issues to clean up from the copy/paste I did from my MS Word document that I will address via editing the original post.

If there are any errors please post what I screwed up and I will edit. Also if I missed something important like...."Look for broken Exhaust Manifold Bolts", I'll add those to the original post.

Ken

exhaust manifolds break real easy FYI, I had three on my 1st engine which one I could not remove from the head.

That form is pretty beefy (and I'm in law school!) Forms like these have a tendency to scare people away... even good people. Nobody wants to commit to something they don't completely understand, or might interpret differently than you do. If you asked me to sign that form, I would cross off or mark up about about half of it first.

Anyway, if I was going to buy an engine with all the good stuff you want included in that form, I would do one of two things:

1) Go on eBay and see what's available. The inventory there turns over pretty frequently, meaning new stuff is added every week or so. You also get some good information/pictures on exactly what you are getting. Prices are competitive. Buy from a reputable seller - preferably a salvage yard that sells stuff out of a regular shop as well as on eBay.

2) Find a good salvage yard in your area that is on the Hollander/EDEN system. It's a nationwide network of the biggest and best salvage yards. They didn't get big and survive for years by screwing people. These yards can go on their computer system and see who has engines all over the country. You may pay a little more, but you have a better chance of getting the harness, fuse box, etc... especially if you can find someone that has the engine still in the vehicle. You'll also probably get a warranty. Freight shipping is not expensive.

This is not legal advice! (disclaimer) My parents own a salvage yard, and seeing what I see in their business, those are probably the two best alternatives you have. You are asking for a lot, so you might have to pay a little more, but it will probably be worth it in the end.

Asking for the VIN is a minimum....

For example, last night I drove 120 miles to look at a 6.0 with 75k on it as advertised on Craigslist:

"2001 chevy motor and trans 6.0 vortek - $2 (Toledo)
Date: 2010-08-18, 8:15PM EDT Reply to: sale-mebmh-1906551462@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]
Chevy motor and transmission 6.0 engine and heavy duty transmission. 80.000.00 miles.2500 HD series vortek 2001 pulled from one ton truck will interchange up to 2006 will fit any LS model chevy car or truck call paul or ray xxx-xxx-345-9517.$1.500.00 obo
Location: Toledo it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
PostingID: 1906551462"

When I got there I found the motor laying on the floor of the garage and the donor vehicle was nowhere in sight. I looked over the motor and verified it turned over with my own ratchet and socket. Even though the harness was chopped in half he had most of the parts I was looking for but could not present the VIN from the donor truck so I drove back home without the motor.

The seller called me about an hour ago with the VIN and I ran it to find that the last time the vehicle had 80,000 miles on it was in 2005. The current mileage is actually over 171,000 miles because that was what the DMV entered in July of 2009. Based on that, I figure the motor actually had 200K plus on it.

When I called the seller back to ask about the difference all he could do was babble and spit sentence fragments because he knew he was caught.

So yes the format might be a bit intimidating but I believe it's better to miss out on "opportunities" like that one.

Another reason for the VIN is to make sure I'm not receiving stolen property because I call my local PD and have them run the number also.

Obviously when dealing with a professional dismantler (salvage yard) the full format should not be needed. However, using the parts checklist portion at the time of pickup will eliminate the finger pointing when something is missing. :D

Yea, what you experienced on Craigslist probably isn't that unusual. When using Craigslist you definitely have to be on your toes. I have went to look at motorcycles advertised on Craigslist and come across a couple that looked to be almost certainly stolen... restriped/painted, no VIN, no title, etc. That is why I would go with a good salvage yard. Sometimes even the salvage yard won't be able to give you the full VIN of the vehicle it came out of.

Upon customer request, we'll put certain things on the invoice before they pay it. For example, if we sell a door we'll put "with power mirror" on the invoice if they want the power mirror, too. That way there is no confusion. If we deliver (or they come to pickup) the door and there's no power mirror, they can point to the invoice that we made. Salvage yards will probably be more receptive to something like that, and be more willing to accommodate you.

BTW, I think we have a 6.0L LQ4 that is still in the truck. I just had my head under the hood last weekend looking to see how the vacuum lines were run. I think it's a 2005 but I am not sure... we had a couple come and go over the last 6 months, and I know at least one of them was a 2005. Since the engine is still in the truck, I'd be able to get you the VIN. PM me if you're interested. Freight to MI should be relatively cheap... maybe $130-$150? I think I even have a crate and box to ship it in from the shortblock I bought a couple years ago.

-Dave

BTW, now that I think about it, I sold an LQ4 to a guy in Colorado Springs that put it in a CJ. It was from a 2003 Express van. The engine was too tall and the pan too deep for my Jag, but it worked out great for him. I was even able to send him all the small parts he needed (PS resevior, PCM bracket, etc) because I still had the van. You can see pics of me trying to put the engine in my Jag on my webpage: http://www.buyrcars.com/jag.htm It's about 1/3 of the way down.

Asking for the VIN is a minimum....

For example, last night I drove 120 miles to look at a 6.0 with 75k on it as advertised on Craigslist:

"2001 chevy motor and trans 6.0 vortek - $2 (Toledo)
Date: 2010-08-18, 8:15PM EDT Reply to: sale-mebmh-1906551462@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]
Chevy motor and transmission 6.0 engine and heavy duty transmission. 80.000.00 miles.2500 HD series vortek 2001 pulled from one ton truck will interchange up to 2006 will fit any LS model chevy car or truck call paul or ray xxx-xxx-345-9517.$1.500.00 obo
Location: Toledo it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
PostingID: 1906551462"

When I got there I found the motor laying on the floor of the garage and the donor vehicle was nowhere in sight. I looked over the motor and verified it turned over with my own ratchet and socket. Even though the harness was chopped in half he had most of the parts I was looking for but could not present the VIN from the donor truck so I drove back home without the motor.

The seller called me about an hour ago with the VIN and I ran it to find that the last time the vehicle had 80,000 miles on it was in 2005. The current mileage is actually over 171,000 miles because that was what the DMV entered in July of 2009. Based on that, I figure the motor actually had 200K plus on it.

When I called the seller back to ask about the difference all he could do was babble and spit sentence fragments because he knew he was caught.

So yes the format might be a bit intimidating but I believe it's better to miss out on "opportunities" like that one.

Another reason for the VIN is to make sure I'm not receiving stolen property because I call my local PD and have them run the number also.

Obviously when dealing with a professional dismantler (salvage yard) the full format should not be needed. However, using the parts checklist portion at the time of pickup will eliminate the finger pointing when something is missing. :D

Love the Jag Swap!

I have an XJ8 with a Nicasil motor that I'm always worried is gonna show up with 0 compression someday just like many others have. One of these days I'm going to take a look at how I could do that swap when I need to.

Regarding the list... I sent it to Schram today and they said no problem and are tracking down an engine that's still in the vehicle. They will then remove to my specs at a price we have already agreed to.

A couple other yards did not get back to me. I guess it weeded the hacks out.