Help the Newbie - Step 2
03-24-2011, 09:51 PM
#1
Help the Newbie - Step 2 Hey--
I really appreciate all of your posts in the thread that I started earlier. I created a new thread to avoid confusion--if someone has a problem with it, I'll go back to the old one. Anyway, over the past two days, I've been doing a lot of research online to try to confirm or reject what was previously said. Given my $2000 budget, I've decided to make the following three changes (for now):
Part #1: Short-Throw Shifter
There appear to be three popular models:
Part #2: Clutch and Flywheel
When it comes to the clutch, I've got two OEM LS7 clutch vendors selected:
Selection of a flywheel seems relatively easy. I've seen varying reports from users that claim that the stock steel LS2 flywheel weighs 47-56 pounds. Although I'm tempted to buy an aluminum flywheel to save as much weight as possible, the best price/performance ratio is here (20 lbs) and here (18 lbs). If you know of a problem with either manufacturer, please let me know. I'm worried about the raised edge on the F1 Prolite--won't that cause problems?
Part #3: Spring Kit
This is where I'm really hoping for help. Since Edibach only offers spring kits for the stock CTS these days, I had to do some looking.
H&R offers a sport set here,
I also found a relatively expensive kit from Ground Control here.
I assume, based on the tutorials that I've read, that either will work with my stock load-leveling shocks (provided that I do the Nivomat modification described in the CTS FAQ). But here's the annoying caveat: I'd really like to have some measure of control over how far I drop this car, both for cosmetic reasons and because I may be buying bigger wheels. Is the GC kit the only one that'll satisfy this requirement?
I really appreciate all of your posts in the thread that I started earlier. I created a new thread to avoid confusion--if someone has a problem with it, I'll go back to the old one. Anyway, over the past two days, I've been doing a lot of research online to try to confirm or reject what was previously said. Given my $2000 budget, I've decided to make the following three changes (for now):
- Install a short-throw shifter.
- Replace the clutch and flywheel.
- Lower the car by about 1 inch.
Part #1: Short-Throw Shifter
There appear to be three popular models:
- PISNUOFF (Homebrew) Shifter (price unknown - asked for quote)
- Katech KAT-A3736 Shifter ($260)
- Lindsay Cadillac UUC Shifter (price unknown - asked for quote)
Part #2: Clutch and Flywheel
When it comes to the clutch, I've got two OEM LS7 clutch vendors selected:
- It's hard to argue with this price ($250). What worries me is that he quotes Part #24255748, which is just for the clutch plate and is in direct conflict with the auction title.
- Then there's this one ($320).
Selection of a flywheel seems relatively easy. I've seen varying reports from users that claim that the stock steel LS2 flywheel weighs 47-56 pounds. Although I'm tempted to buy an aluminum flywheel to save as much weight as possible, the best price/performance ratio is here (20 lbs) and here (18 lbs). If you know of a problem with either manufacturer, please let me know. I'm worried about the raised edge on the F1 Prolite--won't that cause problems?
Part #3: Spring Kit
This is where I'm really hoping for help. Since Edibach only offers spring kits for the stock CTS these days, I had to do some looking.
H&R offers a sport set here,
I also found a relatively expensive kit from Ground Control here.
I assume, based on the tutorials that I've read, that either will work with my stock load-leveling shocks (provided that I do the Nivomat modification described in the CTS FAQ). But here's the annoying caveat: I'd really like to have some measure of control over how far I drop this car, both for cosmetic reasons and because I may be buying bigger wheels. Is the GC kit the only one that'll satisfy this requirement?
03-24-2011, 10:00 PM
#2
1. Heard great things about PISNUOFF shifter, I went with B&M and its not bad at all
2. Talk to Luke at Lindsay and just buy the whole LS7 clutch kit from him so its bolt in, youll save yourself a headache
3. H&Rs are awesome, paird with some mightymouse spacers youll be all set.
4. Throw some headers on the car, best mod by far.
2. Talk to Luke at Lindsay and just buy the whole LS7 clutch kit from him so its bolt in, youll save yourself a headache
3. H&Rs are awesome, paird with some mightymouse spacers youll be all set.
4. Throw some headers on the car, best mod by far.
03-24-2011, 10:07 PM
#3
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Is your clutch still good? I wouldn't bother replacing it until it is worn, use that money to get some axles.
Yes the stock flywheel sucks, but if it ain't broke.
UUC shifter is 300+ dollars if I remember correctly.
Yes the stock flywheel sucks, but if it ain't broke.
UUC shifter is 300+ dollars if I remember correctly.
03-25-2011, 09:01 AM
#5
Your logic is truly fuzzy.
Axles are needed because even at stock power levels the car is stupid to try to drive hard off of idle when it's dry, and when it's wet you might as well leave it in the garage. The econo axle and diff bushing are a HUGE change.
You're thinking is sound in replacing the shifter... it's ridiculous. B&M here also and no complaints.
I'm with the compton - if the clutch/flywheel is still functional, there's no need in changing it. The biggest reason I changed it was to hold the power from the maggie and I wanted it to rev faster. Just wait it out and use the money elsewhere.
Seriously... not solely a sales pitch here - buy my diablo tuner, kill the cags and turn off the rear O2's (or find someone local with an HPtuner and buy credits off of them [even cheaper]) then find an exhaust shop that will build you a test pipe and get the cats off of the car. You'll save a fortune that way and add a bit of power from the tuner/exhaust flow. I'd spend my money on this again before I unneccessarily replaced the clutch.
It is your cash though... do with it what you will.
Axles are needed because even at stock power levels the car is stupid to try to drive hard off of idle when it's dry, and when it's wet you might as well leave it in the garage. The econo axle and diff bushing are a HUGE change.
You're thinking is sound in replacing the shifter... it's ridiculous. B&M here also and no complaints.
I'm with the compton - if the clutch/flywheel is still functional, there's no need in changing it. The biggest reason I changed it was to hold the power from the maggie and I wanted it to rev faster. Just wait it out and use the money elsewhere.
Seriously... not solely a sales pitch here - buy my diablo tuner, kill the cags and turn off the rear O2's (or find someone local with an HPtuner and buy credits off of them [even cheaper]) then find an exhaust shop that will build you a test pipe and get the cats off of the car. You'll save a fortune that way and add a bit of power from the tuner/exhaust flow. I'd spend my money on this again before I unneccessarily replaced the clutch.
It is your cash though... do with it what you will.
03-25-2011, 09:35 AM
#6
i really dont mind the stock clutch, the hanging revs are dumb but it holds like it was brand new... i guess as long as you know how to drive
I have the Katech, nice short firm throw. very little play in gear. +threaded shaft for the ****... if i were to do it all over i would go with the PINUOFF shifter.. its cheaper and after trying it out in a friends v it was obvious that it had a shorter throw + a more positive engagement + you can get it customized to your desired hieght
- PISNUOFF (Homebrew) Shifter (price unknown - asked for quote)
- Katech KAT-A3736 Shifter ($260)
- Lindsay Cadillac UUC Shifter (price unknown - asked for quote)
I have the Katech, nice short firm throw. very little play in gear. +threaded shaft for the ****... if i were to do it all over i would go with the PINUOFF shifter.. its cheaper and after trying it out in a friends v it was obvious that it had a shorter throw + a more positive engagement + you can get it customized to your desired hieght
03-26-2011, 10:34 AM
#7
Tommy/Greddy - reading between the lines, it looks like your driving habits are far different than mine. I don't launch this car, period. I tend to drive extremely twisty roads out here in New England, and as a result, I'm far more interested in maintaining as much speed and control as possible through turns. Acceleration matters--a lot--but in third or fourth gear, you simply aren't going to run into wheel hop or be able to put the kind of torque on the rear axle that you will in first or second.
As far as dumping the cats and O2 sensors, I consider that irresponsible for a daily driver. I checked up on the Diablo Tuner--which model is it? As far as I can tell, they don't support CTS-V's, but they support the Corvette Z06. Speaking out of ignorance here, I would assume that each car reports a different vehicle ID through OB2, but maybe not. I'd be interested in picking up a vehicle tuner but unless there's a very detailed tuning tutorial out there that I can learn from, I'd rather leave tuning in the hands of someone that has decades of experience in playing with engine timing.
I've still got a pile of questions, so in the interest of brevity, let's try this:
1. There's a HUGE difference in price between the H&R and GC spring kits. If I do not want to drop the car more than one inch, will I need MM spacers?
2. See above. If I'd like to be able to adjust ride height from 0.75-1.00 inches, do I have to go with the GC spring kit?
3. Some LS7 flywheels have raised edges. A few (that I've found) do not. Can any of you confirm which flywheels are compatible with LS2 and LS7 clutches? See this thread for the reason behind my concern.
4. Remote bleeder kit. Yay or nay?
As far as dumping the cats and O2 sensors, I consider that irresponsible for a daily driver. I checked up on the Diablo Tuner--which model is it? As far as I can tell, they don't support CTS-V's, but they support the Corvette Z06. Speaking out of ignorance here, I would assume that each car reports a different vehicle ID through OB2, but maybe not. I'd be interested in picking up a vehicle tuner but unless there's a very detailed tuning tutorial out there that I can learn from, I'd rather leave tuning in the hands of someone that has decades of experience in playing with engine timing.
I've still got a pile of questions, so in the interest of brevity, let's try this:
1. There's a HUGE difference in price between the H&R and GC spring kits. If I do not want to drop the car more than one inch, will I need MM spacers?
2. See above. If I'd like to be able to adjust ride height from 0.75-1.00 inches, do I have to go with the GC spring kit?
3. Some LS7 flywheels have raised edges. A few (that I've found) do not. Can any of you confirm which flywheels are compatible with LS2 and LS7 clutches? See this thread for the reason behind my concern.
4. Remote bleeder kit. Yay or nay?
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03-26-2011, 03:08 PM
#8
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Subscribed. Same situation as you. Bought the car this week. Already have a Katech shifter on the way, as well as H&R springs and MM spacers. Also, I got some 2.5-4" tips from Summit on the way. I'll be having the mufflers cut out this week. I hate how the back end looks with the stock tips. I'll have about $140 in that mod (until I can get a real exhaust and some headers... at which time I'll be calling Frost for a tune). I also got some Z06 FRCs on the way. I've already driven the car hard enough to get the coolant temp light on, and I wasn't even on a track. It should help a bit. I'm painting the wheels this weekend (black - with engine paint until I have the time to wait on powdercoating - I have a silver car). I'm having the windows limo'd this week too. I'm planning to order the K&N intake, as well as MSD 8.5mm plug wires with socks this week. FWIW, I build websites. I'm building a website for a car audio shop, and we're trading out. So I'll have $4k or so of stereo equip in there. Has anyone actually put a different head unit in the car? I just hate this one so bad (can't enter destination while moving, buttons wearing off, no iPod jack, etc). Your observation on the flywheel and clutch isn't lost on me. It's horrible. I am a track driver who has had numerous cars with LWFW (lightweight flywheels) and immediately commented (even before the "OH **** THIS SHIFTER SUCKS!" comment) on how heavy the flywheel must be for it to fall so hard on the test drive. Also, the clutch feels like I'm rubbing a slightly wet sponge with my foot. I hate it.
03-26-2011, 03:28 PM
#9
Blakt, have you seen these wheels before? Can't find them anywhere.
What's FRC (fluid something cooling)?
You seem pretty confident in your build. Why did you pick H&R and MM spacers? How far are you planning on dropping your car? As I understand it, MM spacers are only required if you want to lower the car by more than 1 inch.
Just for fun: check out this video comparison of the stock vs. LS7 lightweight flywheel.
What's FRC (fluid something cooling)?
You seem pretty confident in your build. Why did you pick H&R and MM spacers? How far are you planning on dropping your car? As I understand it, MM spacers are only required if you want to lower the car by more than 1 inch.
Just for fun: check out this video comparison of the stock vs. LS7 lightweight flywheel.
03-26-2011, 07:23 PM
#11
Just purchased Magnaflow Exhaust #16537 for $675 shipped. Blakt, this is a steal--check it out.
Will be adding more later. Trying to decide whether or not to go with Kooks or Pacesetter headers. I'm tempted to save a mint and go with the Pacesetters, but after looking around, I realize that if I want to add high-flow catalytic converters to the Pacesetter package, it's really not that great of a deal. Jury's still out.
Anyone have any definitive information on wrapping headers (engine temp, header lifetime reduction, moisture/rust problems, the advantage of titanium materials)?
Will be adding more later. Trying to decide whether or not to go with Kooks or Pacesetter headers. I'm tempted to save a mint and go with the Pacesetters, but after looking around, I realize that if I want to add high-flow catalytic converters to the Pacesetter package, it's really not that great of a deal. Jury's still out.
Anyone have any definitive information on wrapping headers (engine temp, header lifetime reduction, moisture/rust problems, the advantage of titanium materials)?
03-26-2011, 07:59 PM
#12
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Just purchased Magnaflow Exhaust #16537 for $675 shipped. Blakt, this is a steal--check it out.
Will be adding more later. Trying to decide whether or not to go with Kooks or Pacesetter headers. I'm tempted to save a mint and go with the Pacesetters, but after looking around, I realize that if I want to add high-flow catalytic converters to the Pacesetter package, it's really not that great of a deal. Jury's still out.
Anyone have any definitive information on wrapping headers (engine temp, header lifetime reduction, moisture/rust problems, the advantage of titanium materials)?
Will be adding more later. Trying to decide whether or not to go with Kooks or Pacesetter headers. I'm tempted to save a mint and go with the Pacesetters, but after looking around, I realize that if I want to add high-flow catalytic converters to the Pacesetter package, it's really not that great of a deal. Jury's still out.
Anyone have any definitive information on wrapping headers (engine temp, header lifetime reduction, moisture/rust problems, the advantage of titanium materials)?
03-26-2011, 08:03 PM
#13
So you're saying I just wasted my money on a cosmetic change?
Clarification: I'm buying Kooks or OBX headers, and figured that I needed to replace the entire exhaust system in order to see any benefit from the headers. After all, the weakest link in the chain (be it the pipe, cats, or mufflers) applies, right?
If you think I'm wasting my money (I don't give a rip about making the car louder), let me know and I'll cancel my order.
Clarification: I'm buying Kooks or OBX headers, and figured that I needed to replace the entire exhaust system in order to see any benefit from the headers. After all, the weakest link in the chain (be it the pipe, cats, or mufflers) applies, right?
If you think I'm wasting my money (I don't give a rip about making the car louder), let me know and I'll cancel my order.
Last edited by FuzzyLog1c; 03-26-2011 at 08:26 PM.
03-26-2011, 08:45 PM
#14
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So you're saying I just wasted my money on a cosmetic change?
Clarification: I'm buying Kooks or OBX headers, and figured that I needed to replace the entire exhaust system in order to see any benefit from the headers. After all, the weakest link in the chain (be it the pipe, cats, or mufflers) applies, right?
If you think I'm wasting my money (I don't give a rip about making the car louder), let me know and I'll cancel my order.
Clarification: I'm buying Kooks or OBX headers, and figured that I needed to replace the entire exhaust system in order to see any benefit from the headers. After all, the weakest link in the chain (be it the pipe, cats, or mufflers) applies, right?
If you think I'm wasting my money (I don't give a rip about making the car louder), let me know and I'll cancel my order.
Also with the magnaflow, you'll have to have welding done for fitment issues with kooks or maybe other headers. Hacking up the stock catback is waay easier mentally than an aftermarket catback that you threw down some change on.
Heres a crappy vid of my x-pipe/gutted muffler setup. I had the Magnaflow and sold it off as I got sick of hauling my stock catback around when I move (and times are tough too
):http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwirccdtMkw
03-26-2011, 09:43 PM
#16
Okay, well I contacted the seller to see if I can cancel the Magnaflow. Regardless of whether or not he allows it, I got a great deal so I won't be *that* annoyed.
In the meantime, I ordered OBX headers, Katech short throw shifter, and a 160 degree thermostat.
Couple of follow-up questions:
1. Should I wrap the headers? If so, what material would you recommend?
2. What's the deal with 160 degree thermostats and cold weather?
3. How hard will it be to swap in/out the cats for emissions checks?
In the meantime, I ordered OBX headers, Katech short throw shifter, and a 160 degree thermostat.
Couple of follow-up questions:
1. Should I wrap the headers? If so, what material would you recommend?
2. What's the deal with 160 degree thermostats and cold weather?
3. How hard will it be to swap in/out the cats for emissions checks?
03-27-2011, 12:02 AM
#17
Okay, well I contacted the seller to see if I can cancel the Magnaflow. Regardless of whether or not he allows it, I got a great deal so I won't be *that* annoyed.
In the meantime, I ordered OBX headers, Katech short throw shifter, and a 160 degree thermostat.
Couple of follow-up questions:
1. Should I wrap the headers? If so, what material would you recommend?
2. What's the deal with 160 degree thermostats and cold weather?
3. How hard will it be to swap in/out the cats for emissions checks?
In the meantime, I ordered OBX headers, Katech short throw shifter, and a 160 degree thermostat.
Couple of follow-up questions:
1. Should I wrap the headers? If so, what material would you recommend?
2. What's the deal with 160 degree thermostats and cold weather?
3. How hard will it be to swap in/out the cats for emissions checks?
3. if you wanted to use the stock cats, you would haev to swap the entire header/cat in and out... not worth it... you would have to have cats fabbed into the obx connectors, which if you were going to do, i would just run cats all the time (which for a street driven car, i recommend)
As for a question further up, even if you only want to lower the car 1" you will still need a system to modify the rear shocks as they will pump it back to stock height.
If you are looking for maintaining speed, and do not launch the car, i am not sure a lighter flywheel has much to offer you... it seems like the lighter flywheel will help you more in taking off in 1st and 2nd, with diminishing benefits for each gear after that.
03-27-2011, 07:31 AM
#18
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So you're saying I just wasted my money on a cosmetic change?
Clarification: I'm buying Kooks or OBX headers, and figured that I needed to replace the entire exhaust system in order to see any benefit from the headers. After all, the weakest link in the chain (be it the pipe, cats, or mufflers) applies, right?
If you think I'm wasting my money (I don't give a rip about making the car louder), let me know and I'll cancel my order.
Clarification: I'm buying Kooks or OBX headers, and figured that I needed to replace the entire exhaust system in order to see any benefit from the headers. After all, the weakest link in the chain (be it the pipe, cats, or mufflers) applies, right?
If you think I'm wasting my money (I don't give a rip about making the car louder), let me know and I'll cancel my order.
You can also get a little extra sound from the stock system for free by gutting the mufflers. Or for cheap, you can replace the mufflers with straight pipe or the straight-through muffler of your choice.
If you search, a guy dynoed his mildly modded car with the factory catback and with cutouts opened. Difference was like 2hp.
