FastKat

iTrader: (10)

I have a new 04-07 CTS-V power steering pump. The max pressure is rated at about 1,700 psi. I need the max pressure to be around 1,200 psi, sort of like the F-body pump. Any suggestions? I have heard there is some sort of pressure relief spring you can change out, but I don't know anything about it.

Any idea where I can get some answers to this question? I was thinking about taking the pump apart to see what is inside, but I'd like to get a little more information before I take that step.

garys 68

iTrader: (1)

The high pressure oulet on the truck pumps unscrews. There's a spring under that. The fitting and spring were interchangable even on my 72 Olds pump.

FastKat

iTrader: (10)

Thanks for the info - is this what you're talking about - the black thing? It's in there TIGHT. I need to get my hands on a puller to get the pulley off (needs to come off anyway) so I can get a socket on there. There's not enough clearance for a wrench.

That's good to know about the truck pumps. Does anyone know if those springs are compatible with the car pumps? Any idea where I'd go to get those springs?

79LS1FOX

iTrader: (11)

I bought mine from these guys, www.borgeson.com and yes its behind that big nut.

1dirtyZ

iTrader: (1)

going a bit off topic here , but what are the symptoms or signs of having too much powersteering pressure vs. too little?

and what would cause the powersteering fluid to foam ?

S10xGN

iTrader: (11)

When I first started my Maverick swap and tried to bleed the steering, all I had to do was touch the steering wheel and it would jerk violently from stop to stop. I added the DSE flow restrictor valve and all is good now.

flatlander757

I don't normally post here much but figured I may be able to help...

I am more into offroad/4x4 Jeeps and stuff... we modify our PS pumps for more pressure and flow when we add an assist cylinder... the reverse could easily be done to lower pressure.

The big spring doesn't do much of anything for overall pressure... based on what *I* can tell in how a PS pump works... it seems to be there just for keeping the piston stable when it's not needing to flow a ridiculous amount of fluid(high load, full lock, etc)... otherwise it would flap around and I THINK the volume of fluid delivered would either be erratic or it would just be nearly full pressure/full flow all the time. I'm fairly certain it's basically just there to limit flow at basically idle/near-zero load situations.

What you want to modify is the piston itself. Inside of it is the valve for controlling the high pressure bypass.

The way it is controlled is by adding or removing shims from the piston adding or taking away tension on the internal spring that holds tension over the plunger.

Here is a link explaining the parts w/ pictures:

http://westtexasoffroad.homestead.co...rsteering.html

Keep in mind it explains INCREASING PRESSURE... you will want to just add shims to DECREASE the pressure to a desired level.



FWIW I've found that all CB and TC style pumps(Jeep pumps are TC as are most other Chrysler pumps, Chevy stuff is all CB except for the truck pumps which are P pumps... the P pumps are the ones that have the built-in can-of-ham looking reservoir). interchange springs and fittings and stuff to get what you want. I am not 100% sure about the P pumps if stuff can be interchanged because I haven't had to deal with one(at least not modifying, I've replaced plenty though).

Here is a link to my own monkeying around with pumps... in my case I added hydro assist to my Jeep on 40s and using a Grand Cherokee 99-04 V8 pump with a different sized fitting, adapted it to turn my tires just fine.

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f22/f...ml#post9545600


Hopefully you guys find this helpful.

And FWIW, most aftermarket companies do not use shims on the piston... they instead use thread-locking compound and merely just don't screw it all the way down. I've never seen one come apart or cause problems, but it's kind of half-assed. If you can muster up some usable shims, then do so.

edit: And here is a really good PS tech article... it ends up talking more about full hydraulic steering... but the stuff about how the pumps work and all that good stuff are still relevant.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billav...ing/index.html

FastKat

iTrader: (10)

Thanks a lot - those are really great sources of information that aren't easy to come by. I'll update when I get my pump taken apart... right now I need to find a pulley puller.

flatlander757

I edited that last post of mine, I accidentally left out a link so I added it... also here:

http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billav...ing/index.html

You'll want to go from that introduction page to page 1(Basic Hydraulics).

LOTS of good stuff about cavitation, what causes it and how to prevent it, etc etc as well as the basic principles... the part about PUMPS specifically is what is important per this thread though... I heavily recommend bookmarking that page

monzaaddict

I am in the process of cobbling together an accessory drive using cts-v parts to install a 5.3 into a chevrolet monza and I came upon this thread. For the most part others have already answered your questions but I will add some info I came across as it might help someone. I am by no means an expert on power steering pump operation so if there are mistakes in this info feel free to correct me.

I am sure you saw the post on here listing pressure and volume for various ls pumps

Cadillac CTS-V, all years with LS6 and LS2:
1.9-2.1 GPM 1640/1740 psi

I am wondering if pressure is minimum or maximum and for that matter I wonder the same for the ratings given for early style pumps that vary from the 800 psi to 1200 psi depending on application..

I haven't take my pump apart but from what I have read the internals of the toyota pump are similar to the gm parts. There are basically 2 parts the flow valve and pressure relief valve.
http://static.speedwaymotors.com/pdf...lveInstall.pdf

When you look down the outlet fitting (flow valve) the internal restriction is what controls the output volume. Drilling this passage larger increases volume. Use hardened numbered drill bits and increase diameter in small increments.
http://www.affordablegokarts.com/Dri...ain%20Jets.php

The pressure relief valve has an internal check needle and spring. The relief valve diverts fluid back to the intake side of the pump. Pressure can be varied by altering the spring pressure exerted on the needle. At the back end of the pressure valve is a fitting that can be removed and additional shims installed thereby decreasing the pressure at which the needle is moved off its seat. If shims are not available you may be able to reinstall fitting loosely with lock tite.

measuring pressure and volume output looks costly
http://www.denlorstools.com/home/dt1...ostic_tes.html

but pressure only gauges are on ebay for $30.

Hope this helps someone and check links below some of them require scrolling to find relevant info. Also if you modify your pump let me know where you got the shims and how thick they were. The shims from a gm kit might work.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showt...=338735&page=3
http://www.cdxetextbook.com/steersus...trolvalve.html
http://jeffd.50megs.com/Pump_valve_mod_page.htm
http://www.pozziracing.com/camaro_steering.htm
http://forum.ih8mud.com/60-series-wa...p-rebuild.html
http://www.offroadsc.com/showthread....ring-Pump-Tech
http://www.pacificp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10246
http://planetsoarer.com/Power%20steering%20pump.htm
http://www.lexls.com/tutorials/steer...mprebuild.html
http://static.speedwaymotors.com/pdf/466-21304.pdf
http://static.speedwaymotors.com/pdf...lveInstall.pdf

here is a good article on modifying steering boxes
http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles...e/viewall.html

subaru, mitsubishi and others I am sure use a variation of the toyota pump.

http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/10...p-rebuild.html

http://s232.photobucket.com/albums/e...3DIMG_9262.jpg

FastKat

iTrader: (10)

Good info! I was waiting to post to this thread until I had my pump finished, but here's what I have now:

Yes, it is a Toyota pump. It has an body identical to the pump used on many Toyota vehicles through the 2000's (minus a pressure sensor fitting.) I took apart the pump and the pressure relief valve is not serviceable - it doesn't seem to come apart without breaking. Therefore, I decided to find a valve with a lower pressure rating.

I could not find anyone to sell me just a valve, so I called Cardone. Cardone remanufactures many parts, including power steering pumps. They were able to give me the relief valve pressures for many Toyota vehicles by year/make/model/engine. It turns out the pump on the 2002-2006 Camry is rated at 1275 psi. I bought a used Camry pump and plan on swapping over the pressure relief valve. I should have the pump in a few days.

The end result should be a 2004-2007 CTS-V power steering pump with the pressure lowered from about 1700 psi to about 1275 psi, which is pretty close to where my steering rack wants it.

I will post back when I confirm that the Camry relief valve fits!

BTW, I also talked to PSC Motorsports. They specialize in offroad steering. They told me that the Toyota relief valves were "throw away" parts and that nothing they had - mostly domestic stuff - would fit.

monzaaddict

Thank you for updating thread. Did you also verify the output volume of the camry pump. Did you email cardone at tech@cardone.com or contact them by phone. If by phone do you have the contact info.

monzaaddict

here is a thread that related to finding a hose that uses the factory outlet on the cts-v pump. I really am not sure how this is installed or for that matter once installed how it is removed. I can't figure out what holds the tube in place except maybe that copper c clip.

https://ls1tech.com/forums/conversio...en-f-body.html

FastKat

iTrader: (10)

I emailed Cardone first and then they emailed me back with a phone number.

The only part from the Camry pump that I am using is the valve assembly - it looks like a small cylinder. That controls (in this case reduces) the max pressure that can go out of the pressure line. I am still using the CTS-V flow control assembly. The flow control assembly is actually part of the large nut that holds the pressure hose. (This is the part that all those 4x4 guys drill out to get more flow.) The CTS-V pump flows about 2.0 GPM which is ideal for me, so I left it alone.

It is possible that the Camry pump's flow control valve flows more, but I didn't ask the guys at Cardone.

Also, I think I found a good solution for the pressure hose. I bought a "fuel line repair kit", Dorman part# 800-153. It is a piece of tube with a special flare and o-ring on one end. The flare and o-ring side will go into the pump, and the other side of the tube will be flared into a 37* flare with a tube nut and tube sleeve. I usually use the local Parker store, which is very reasonably priced. After that, you can get your existing power steering hose, and have Parker cut the hose and crimp on a hose end to match Dorman part mentioned above. I did this a couple years ago for my project (different GM pump) and it cost me about $25 -> $15 for the Dorman kit and $8 at the Parker store.

I know that sounds confusing. I am going to do it this weekend and I will post pictures on my website!

Edit: Actually, I already have pics on my website from when I did it the first time. Check out the Sept 25, 2010 entry.
http://www.buyrcars.com/jag.htm

monzaaddict

I noticed the ps pump and bracket included in the 2009-2011 cts-v accessory drive kit for use with the blower have different part numbers. From the vague pics I can find on the web it looks like a different pump. I wonder if it is a GM pump.

monzaaddict

There is no need to use the toyota pump when doing an engine swap when using a cts-v accessory drive.
I was searching ebay recently and came across a listing by custom built motors:
http://myworld.ebay.com/custombuiltmotors/
They mention that you can use the factory cts-v power steering bracket to mount an aluminum or steel sweet (or stock gm) type power steering pump. These pumps are available in varied pressure and volume outputs. Pressure and volume is easily adjusted by changing out the valve. A factory pulley from a 4.6 cadillac #12558529 (dorman 300-124) or billet equivalent is also needed.

monzaaddict

I don't think this will change the pressure but it will change the volume and allows for an-6 hose hookup to cts-v /toyoda pump without interference betweein hose fitting and pulley.

https://ls1tech.com/forums/conversio...estrictor.html

http://www.turnone-steering.com/an-6-flow-restrictors/

S10xGN

iTrader: (11)

Correct on the pressure. These valves only limit flow, pressure is still controlled by the relief spring. If the spring is untouched, pressure will stay the same. The valve just opens further, bypassing more to maintain the pressure...