Spark plug reading help
06-27-2013, 03:40 AM
#1
Spark plug reading help Hello everybody. I went ahead and made some full 1/4 mile passes today. I was skating everywhere but managed to get it down the track. This car works on motor but is absolutely tractionless on bottle. The specs on the kit are 62 N20 Jet, 35 fuel jet, 7 degrees timing pulled. It is a nitrous outlet 78mm plate on a cammed LS1.
Went ahead and did some pulls. Pushed the car up to the line, no burnout, ran the car and shut it down at the stripe. Here are the photos. I do not see a lot of color on the plugs, so maybe these dont have enough time on them? However, I do not know how I would be able to get more time on a set of plugs safely. 1/4 mile is about all I can do around these parts. Thank you in advance everyone.
Went ahead and did some pulls. Pushed the car up to the line, no burnout, ran the car and shut it down at the stripe. Here are the photos. I do not see a lot of color on the plugs, so maybe these dont have enough time on them? However, I do not know how I would be able to get more time on a set of plugs safely. 1/4 mile is about all I can do around these parts. Thank you in advance everyone.
06-27-2013, 03:44 AM
#3
It also looks like there is some peppering on the porcelain. That is likely mostly due to using the dremel to cut the threads off. Prior to chopping the threads I did my very best to look for peppering on the porcelain and didn't see anything. However, I have never actually seen "peppering" in person, only seen it from pictures off the internet. Thank you everyone. Your assistance is truly appreciated.
06-27-2013, 08:36 AM
#4
Looks rich and possibly over timed to me. I'd start by pulling fuel in the form of going back to the 33 jet, and pulling 8 degrees. Does the car have a wide band?
What is the total timing that you're running? IMO that is way more important than how much you're pulling.
It looks to me as if it's over fueled and that fuel is covering up the heat on the plug. Pulling fuel out of it and timing will show whether or not this is true.
What is the total timing that you're running? IMO that is way more important than how much you're pulling.
It looks to me as if it's over fueled and that fuel is covering up the heat on the plug. Pulling fuel out of it and timing will show whether or not this is true.
06-27-2013, 11:54 AM
#5
Thank you Martin. That is very helpful. I do not know the total timing as of now, I am going to have my tuner look at that when he has time next week. I will go ahead and move down to a 33 jet again and pull another degree of timing to see where i'm at. The main problem im having now is traction. Car works WELL on motor but is just a skate contest on the bottle. I am worried that the lack of traction might be messing with the readings also since there really isn't full load on the motor when the tires are boiling.
Anyways at the advice of another member I went ahead and gently wiped the strap with my thumb. I however did not know exactly how hard to wipe. I wasn't sure if it was possible to "wipe away" information from the strap. Thank you again Martin and anybody else that is willing to chime in.
Anyways at the advice of another member I went ahead and gently wiped the strap with my thumb. I however did not know exactly how hard to wipe. I wasn't sure if it was possible to "wipe away" information from the strap. Thank you again Martin and anybody else that is willing to chime in.
06-27-2013, 04:23 PM
#6
Your Tune is not far off. This is the point where you have to ask your self is this a street car and you are not going to be pulling plugs on all the time or is this a track car and you will be pulling plugs to verify tune up every time you go out.
Not seeing the plug in person and going by pictures can be misleading. The first pics show a hint of fuel and the top of the plug a little dirty. In some circumstances the top of the plug being dirty can be fuel or due to not enough heat because of to cold of a plug or not enough timing. Being that you have a BR7 plug we know its not to cold and I can see where the timing is so it appears to be dirty due to fuel. However we do not have a dark thick fuel ring at the base. Which can be due to not enough run time.
But the bottom pics show a pretty clean tune up with a bit of an aggressive timing mark. Top of the plug is clean and the top of the porcelain is also clean not showing any dark tent.
If the bottom plug is a full wide open blast and this is a street car I would leave it alone air fuel wise. I see a hint of color at the base of the plug which is what I like.
My next step would be to make a back to back pass removing a degree of timing. Compare mph and ET to the pass before. If the car picks up keep doing it until it slows down. The more efficient the motor is the less timing it will need. If the car does not respond to timing being taken out and you are happy leave it where it is.
If this were a race car and I was competing my next step would be to give it a half degree to 1 degree of timing to watch MPH and ET in comparison. As doing this I would be watching the coloring of the strap using my magnified tuning tool. I would also be watching for signs or detonation on the porcelain.
I do not advise getting carried away with timing. Timing is the number one nitrous engine killer.
The rule of the timing mark needs to be on the top of the curve of the strap is nothing more than a good safe point of reference for a safe tune or a stopping point for a novice tuner. Every engine will want different things. Knowing how to let the engine talk to you and understanding what it is telling you is something not everyone is good at.
After I am happy with the timing I like to go one step further and give it a tad more fuel. Again comparing MPH and ET. While doing this I am watching how it is affecting the heat and timing marks on the plug. If the car pics up I give it a tad more fuel again until I decide ok I am happy with this lets leave it alone.
To much fuel is not good for a nitrous engine either so again you have to watch the fuel ring and listen to the car.
What I am trying to say is that the advice of a faint tan fuel ring and timing mark on the top of the curve of the strap is not always what the motor is most happy with. But it is a very safe reference to tell non advance tuners to go buy. Giving a real aggressive tune up to the average joe will eventually cost them a motor.
Hope that helps.
Dave
Not seeing the plug in person and going by pictures can be misleading. The first pics show a hint of fuel and the top of the plug a little dirty. In some circumstances the top of the plug being dirty can be fuel or due to not enough heat because of to cold of a plug or not enough timing. Being that you have a BR7 plug we know its not to cold and I can see where the timing is so it appears to be dirty due to fuel. However we do not have a dark thick fuel ring at the base. Which can be due to not enough run time.
But the bottom pics show a pretty clean tune up with a bit of an aggressive timing mark. Top of the plug is clean and the top of the porcelain is also clean not showing any dark tent.
If the bottom plug is a full wide open blast and this is a street car I would leave it alone air fuel wise. I see a hint of color at the base of the plug which is what I like.
My next step would be to make a back to back pass removing a degree of timing. Compare mph and ET to the pass before. If the car picks up keep doing it until it slows down. The more efficient the motor is the less timing it will need. If the car does not respond to timing being taken out and you are happy leave it where it is.
If this were a race car and I was competing my next step would be to give it a half degree to 1 degree of timing to watch MPH and ET in comparison. As doing this I would be watching the coloring of the strap using my magnified tuning tool. I would also be watching for signs or detonation on the porcelain.
I do not advise getting carried away with timing. Timing is the number one nitrous engine killer.
The rule of the timing mark needs to be on the top of the curve of the strap is nothing more than a good safe point of reference for a safe tune or a stopping point for a novice tuner. Every engine will want different things. Knowing how to let the engine talk to you and understanding what it is telling you is something not everyone is good at.
After I am happy with the timing I like to go one step further and give it a tad more fuel. Again comparing MPH and ET. While doing this I am watching how it is affecting the heat and timing marks on the plug. If the car pics up I give it a tad more fuel again until I decide ok I am happy with this lets leave it alone.
To much fuel is not good for a nitrous engine either so again you have to watch the fuel ring and listen to the car.
What I am trying to say is that the advice of a faint tan fuel ring and timing mark on the top of the curve of the strap is not always what the motor is most happy with. But it is a very safe reference to tell non advance tuners to go buy. Giving a real aggressive tune up to the average joe will eventually cost them a motor.
Hope that helps.
Dave
06-27-2013, 06:28 PM
#7
Dave,
That post was extremely helpful and definitely helped solidify my purchase with nitrous outlet.
I completely understand that reading the plugs from pictures off the Internet is much more difficult as opposed to seeing them in person. Your effort to give some advice to a newbie is very much appreciated. This is a street car but will really only be run at the track. I only put about 1000 miles on the car a year. Although the car is going to be primarily run at the track for the rest of its life I want to stay conservative with the tune. Being that I am a newbie to nitrous I don't want to push the envelope just yet. Eventually I want to fine tune the vehicle on bottle but for right no I want to stay on the side of caution until I get more experience using the juice. Taking your advice I will pull one more degree of timing and see what happens.
Just have a question. If I want to try moving up fuel wise what jet should I run? I noticed that the next step up on fuel is a 38 (I am on a 35 now). I would guess that the 38 is too much. In that case do I add fuel using the engine computer rather than adding with the 38 jet?
I am also planning to make another pass with traction. Like I said before I am hoping that the readings aren't being thrown off by the lack of traction. I was just absolutely blowing the tires off last night. Thank you again for the help. I am very happy with my nitrous outlet purchase and will continue to purchase products from the company.
That post was extremely helpful and definitely helped solidify my purchase with nitrous outlet.
I completely understand that reading the plugs from pictures off the Internet is much more difficult as opposed to seeing them in person. Your effort to give some advice to a newbie is very much appreciated. This is a street car but will really only be run at the track. I only put about 1000 miles on the car a year. Although the car is going to be primarily run at the track for the rest of its life I want to stay conservative with the tune. Being that I am a newbie to nitrous I don't want to push the envelope just yet. Eventually I want to fine tune the vehicle on bottle but for right no I want to stay on the side of caution until I get more experience using the juice. Taking your advice I will pull one more degree of timing and see what happens.
Just have a question. If I want to try moving up fuel wise what jet should I run? I noticed that the next step up on fuel is a 38 (I am on a 35 now). I would guess that the 38 is too much. In that case do I add fuel using the engine computer rather than adding with the 38 jet?
I am also planning to make another pass with traction. Like I said before I am hoping that the readings aren't being thrown off by the lack of traction. I was just absolutely blowing the tires off last night. Thank you again for the help. I am very happy with my nitrous outlet purchase and will continue to purchase products from the company.
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06-28-2013, 10:57 AM
#8
Great post Dave!!
KTK, you should be able to get every number when it comes to jets... 35,36,37,38
You dont need to own every single one but if you want to stick with 62n then its worth having all the fuel jets that are close to what you need.
Hope that made sense. LOL !
KTK, you should be able to get every number when it comes to jets... 35,36,37,38
You dont need to own every single one but if you want to stick with 62n then its worth having all the fuel jets that are close to what you need.
Hope that made sense. LOL !
06-28-2013, 07:43 PM
#9
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Two of the baddest nitrous tuners in the country just answered your question, the end. lol.. Honestly, Dave and AtV are two of the best out there, listen to them and you will not go wrong.
06-30-2013, 02:04 PM
#10
Great post Dave!!
KTK, you should be able to get every number when it comes to jets... 35,36,37,38
You dont need to own every single one but if you want to stick with 62n then its worth having all the fuel jets that are close to what you need.
Hope that made sense. LOL !
KTK, you should be able to get every number when it comes to jets... 35,36,37,38
You dont need to own every single one but if you want to stick with 62n then its worth having all the fuel jets that are close to what you need.
Hope that made sense. LOL !
