Joe Kizzire

Just wondering.... Do you people like the headsup class racing like the Thunder Shootout was, index ET racing or bracket racing????

<small>[ November 24, 2002, 08:03 AM: Message edited by: Joe Kizzire ]</small>

Bob2of3

iTrader: (11)

There is benefits to all forms listed. I voted heads-up but I'll never be able to compete in the class I would want to because I'm always going to be lighter than the minimum weights. There needs to be a base weight that get breaks or penalties(?) for each setup. I need weight break for my 346 to go after the all-bores/superstrokers

LAter <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

Joe Kizzire

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Bob2of3:
<strong>There is benefits to all forms listed. I voted heads-up but I'll never be able to compete in the class I would want to because I'm always going to be lighter than the minimum weights. There needs to be a base weight that get breaks or penalties(?) for each setup. I need weight break for my 346 to go after the all-bores/superstrokers

LAter <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Bob this is not a rules thread I was just wondering what people liked.

Bob Cosby

What the hell's wrong with you Joe? You left out INTERNET RACING!. That would win hands down! (I'd vote for it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> )

<img border="0" alt="[Fluffy]" title="" src="graemlins/fluffy.gif" />

Joe Kizzire

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Bob Cosby:
<strong>What the hell's wrong with you Joe? You left out INTERNET RACING!. That would win hands down! (I'd vote for it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> )

<img border="0" alt="[Fluffy]" title="" src="graemlins/fluffy.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Bob you vote don't count because you drive a
<img border="0" alt="[barf]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_barf.gif" /> Ford. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

CHRISPY

I like Index racing. Then there isnt as many restrictions and bullshit you have to go through. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> You enter the index you think you are most competitive in and you still get to go off a pro tree <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="gr_images/icons/cool.gif" />
Chris

CamaroCain

iTrader: (1)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Chris ARE 360:
<strong>I like Index racing. Then there isnt as many restrictions and bullshit you have to go through. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> You enter the index you think you are most competitive in and you still get to go off a pro tree <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="gr_images/icons/cool.gif" />
Chris</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">ditto

Index classes are based on what you run not what you have done to your car.
Also I didn't understand how in SS/A(M) you were allowed a Cam swap <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
But all the new shootouts (Spring & Northern) have all three types of these. They have about 2 heads up classes for the faster guys, index for the average person/racer and a bracket class. I like that setup seems much more fair to me. Of course no matter what someone is always going to bitch about something.

Lynda

Terry Burger

iTrader: (4)

People are not going to drive hundreds of miles to 10.0 index race. They will to heads up race in a "Max NA" class!

Magic Man

Since I had to vote for one I didn't vote as I like all three.Although I don't care for alot of stuff that goes on in brackets I think people should have a choice of where to run but if a race is set up then the rules can be whatever the promotors want to have.A good close 14 sec race is alot more fun to watch than a fuel run where one goes up in smoke or blows up on the line,or the track has no bite and they shut off .My 2 cents worth.

Stefan D.

Index racing sucks. Ive done it with NMCA and NSCA for two years. Its fun but if your running a power adder and going fast its hard to be consisient especially when going to different altitudes and tracks. Line it up heads up and see whos got what <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> . Thunder Shootout was awesome for that reason and I think we should stick to what they started.

Stefan D.

The Big Show

iTrader: (2)

I'm not real big on index racing but I do see where the necessity is for it here. There are more guys/gals that run in the slower classes so index racing at this point would somewhat level the playin' field so to speak. I don't really think car counts are going to be an issue as the F-body internet society is finally starting to want to leave their "dens" and come out and race heads up.

Also, there isn't a fine line between the fastest guys and the faster guys right now. The gap is huge and there just aren't that many "fastest" guys out there now. So either avoid them like the plague or hope they redlight or break <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_tounge.gif" /> Its just good to see some more heads up style racing finally coming into fruition...

Joe Kizzire

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by The Big Show:
<strong>I'm not real big on index racing but I do see where the necessity is for it here. There are more guys/gals that run in the slower classes so index racing at this point would somewhat level the playin' field so to speak. I don't really think car counts are going to be an issue as the F-body internet society is finally starting to want to leave their "dens" and come out and race heads up.

Also, there isn't a fine line between the fastest guys and the faster guys right now. The gap is huge and there just aren't that many "fastest" guys out there now. So either avoid them like the plague or hope they redlight or break <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_tounge.gif" /> Its just good to see some more heads up style racing finally coming into fruition...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Good post Bobby.... I think you are dead on.... Also the the quickest way to get faster is race somebody that's faster than you. It'll make you work harder. <img border="0" alt="[Burnout]" title="" src="graemlins/burnout.gif" />

Guido

Heads up.

I can go to any of the three tracks within an hour of me to race the clock.

Nine Ball

iTrader: (38)

The different types of racing should be selected with your main goals in mind.

-Do you want the most participation?
-Are you just interested in who is the fastest?
-Do you favor heavy regulations, or more simple rules?

Heads up racing, categorized by things such as engine size, power adders or not, raceweight, suspension setups, etc... are great if we just want to prove who the "best of the best" for each category is. The main problem with this format for the LS1 community is that there simply are not enough cars to fill each sort of highly regulated class. If we had 200-300 cars show up, we might get some decent class representation. We might actually have enough cars to fill certain classes. Also, given the strict nature of rules for each class, cars are forced into specific classes. There often isn't a choice of classes that you could make simple adjustements or changes to your car to be competitive in. At the Thunder Shootout, my car was automatically deemed a "Pro Stock" car just because of its engine size. We only had 4 cars in the event. Mine was the slowest by over a .60 second gap. I lost my first round by a full second (9.76 to 10.76). The only way I could have entered another class would have been to do a complete engine swap for a smaller engine, or add a 300 shot of nitrous. Hmmm... not simple.

Index racing promotes participation. We have alot more 10-second F-bodies of all types of formats (NA, turbos, supercharged, nitroused) and can actually fill the class. Also, with the relaxed tech rules and low restrictions, that also allows the classes to fill. This goes for each type of index class, they could very likely be filled with cars for any given event. With Index classes, you can make simple changes to your car and be competitive in your choice of classes. I could drop as much raceweight as I want and run 10.0 index (no limits on weight reduction), or keep the weight and add a 50 shot, or I could add 400 lbs or simply short-shift and run 11.0 index. Simple changes anyone can do.

Bracket racing is mostly tradition. I've never been to any events without one. This class is THE most popular class when it comes to participation. Where else can a guy in a 14 second F-body be competitive with a 10 second F-body? The brackets!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">People are not going to drive hundreds of miles to 10.0 index race. They will to heads up race in a "Max NA" class!</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Terry, for the LS1/LT1 cars, a 9-second NA class would be a VERY low turnout. Right now there are probably less than 10 LS1/LT1 "street" cars capable of running 9s NA. And, even if half of them showed up for the event, a field of 5 cars is pretty weak. Its hard to get a sponsor to donate $1000 for a field of 5 cars. The majority of the faster NA LS1/LT1 cars are going to be in the 10s. Those cars alone could probably fill a class by themselves. Turnout for a 9-second NA (which is basically your "all-out NA" asking) would be dismal for now. In a few years, it would be nice to see a ton of 9-second (or better) capable LS1/LT1 cars. But, we need to be realistic and work with what we have here right now. The majority of cars at these events are bolt-ons and heads/cam cars, not 9-second NA warriors. We need full, competitive classes to keep LS1/LT1 racing popular.

-Tony

GeorgeC

Well, I can go either way on this one...

True heads-up racing is a real rush. Loads of fun. But... not many folks can afford to be competetive in it. I can't afford to go out and build a bigger motor for my car, and the weight requirements aren't usually in my favor, so my 'lil 382 has some trouble with the "big dogs" out there. It's still fun to try.

Index racing is a good combination of both heads-up and bracket racing. Pro-tree start, and you do run the car all out to a point. You can still break out, and there is some driver skill involved.

Bracket racing? Personally I love it. But, I can bracket race for some pretty good purses locally most anytime. Why drive 10 hours or more to bracket race since I can do that here? Bracket racing also takes more driving skill to be succesful at than either of the other two, IMHO.

I guess it all comes down to how classes are broken up. The North vs. South race looks like fun, and I'll probably attend, but I can forget any hopes of being able to run in the heads-up class, since it looks like everyone's going to be thrown into the same mix (NA, FI, N2O). Sure, there will be some weight breaks, but they come far from leveling out the field.

FSTR-THANU

iTrader: (9)

Great Post!

I fully agree with Tony here. I like heads up racing as much as anybody but trying to come up with specific rules to make it fair for all and still draw a large group is very difficult. Heads up racing with an index opens the feild up for much more competition. I agree that most of us can "race a tree" close to home but to get a chance to run with so many awesome f-cars from around the country is alot more than just racing a tree.

Tom

Joe Kizzire

Well guys I wish you luck in your upcoming races but I'm 99% sure that the Thunder Shootout 2003 race will be heads-up class racing and a bracket race. There will be more classes and the rules will be treeked and fomat will be spread over two days.

The objective in the beginning of the Thunder Shootout was to put a race on for the racers not to make a buck so car count was never a big issue. It will grow and there will be more cars in 2003. <img border="0" alt="[Burnout]" title="" src="graemlins/burnout.gif" />

Joe Kizzire

ttt

Nine Ball

iTrader: (38)

Another great thing about index classes is that we can race against different body styles. With index racing, you can line heads up with Corvettes, Trucks, hybrids, etc... that are running the same ET range as your f-body.

With heads up classes, that isn't possible. The rules, weight breaks, blah blah would be ridiculous to organize and set for consistency.

Joe, a large turnout isn't about making money, its about having more people to party with and have a BIGGER, better time. Personally, I'd rather see a ton of 9-10-11 second cars racing all day long than just a handful.

If the Pro Stock class is the only class my car will fit in next year, I will not be entering that class. I'll just stick with the bracket event and hope to win it this time <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

Thunder has a 2-day event planned, so lets have a real TRUE STREET. 3200 lbs, DOT tires, LS1/LT1, etc...

-Tony

KTamez

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Nine Ball:
<strong>Another great thing about index classes is that we can race against different body styles. With index racing, you can line heads up with Corvettes, Trucks, hybrids, etc... that are running the same ET range as your f-body.

With heads up classes, that isn't possible. The rules, weight breaks, blah blah would be ridiculous to organize and set for consistency.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hmm, seems alot of sanctioning bodies have figured out ways to mesh together Cars of all Makes and Models. IMO, making a set of FAIR rules isn't THAT hard. The problem is everyone gets upset, because they aren't doing whats actually possible with their combination.

Headsup racing is about one thing. Maximizing the combination within the rules. Problem is everyone around here want their own class.

If anyone sees a class for <400ci, 23* headed, Stock block, Stock Suspension, 3200lb, M/T Tires No Wider then 11.5", White F-Bodies, requiring the owners name to start with "K", please let me know, I think I'd do really well. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />