View Full Version : F13 Dyno Results- tuned by FMS


Kalijah98z
11-21-2004, 01:34 AM
Here are the mods done to my motor

02 GM LS1 with around 30 miles
LS6 intake
Jet Hot LT's
Asp pulley
F13 cam
Manley springs
FMS hardened pushrods
FMS y-pipe
3:42's 10 bolt
stock TB
open FMS Y-pipe

The first pulls on the motor untuned were 389, 400, 402hp!

Then he went to town tuning and pulled out 430.83hp and 414.43tq!!!

Then Allan pulled off the belt and got a whopping 439.40hp and 421.69tq!!! :hail: :eek2:

He busted his ass tuning my motor staying late and having to figure out a few odd things that happened to come our way. Candy even stopped by to share the enthusiasm.

Here is a scan of the no belt pull
http://www.imagestation.com/mypictures/inbox/view.html?album_id=4155945093&id=4130439294&url=http%3A//www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid147/pf498632527a0a07fb60d617ff6a6da38/f631807e.jpg&caption=349%20dyno


I want to give a HUGE thanks to Jason99TA for installing my motor and FMS for the awsome tune!!! Both of these guys went out of thier way to help me out and i can't say enough about them. :cheers:

Elijah

Josh
11-21-2004, 01:45 AM
Wow! Those are some incredible numbers, congrats. :D

Just out of curiousity, how did the A/F ratio on the first three runs compare to the A/F ratio on the 439 RWHP run?

Josh

Wicked_Hugger99
11-21-2004, 02:58 AM
Futral seems to be on a roll with spectacular cam only setups and strokers. Cant wait to get back there in Janurary for my new cam/nx combo!!

Damian
11-21-2004, 03:37 AM
The FM13 is pound for pound the best fucking cam on the market for a daily driven LS1. The power/reliability combo CANNOT be beat...

That being said, 430 rwhp from stock heads and a measily 230/232 cam is insane :eek2:

Jason99T/A
11-21-2004, 03:45 AM
Elijah, I'm glad everything worked out well with the cam/motor install. :D I'm always happy to help friends out. Very impressive numbers for stock heads, especially with the stock TB! You have another 6-7hp left there.

You might have to let me make a pass in it Wednesday. :)

Jason

Gamble
11-21-2004, 03:59 AM
WOW!!! Great numbers... Forget the MailOrderTune... I'm driving all the way to Lousiana to get my car tuned by Allan... Just have to now... :devil:

Checkmate
11-21-2004, 09:48 AM
WOW!!! Great numbers... Forget the MailOrderTune... I'm driving all the way to Lousiana to get my car tuned by Allan... Just have to now... :devil:

I was thinking the same.

Congrats, those #'s are awesome. :D

JaSSon
11-21-2004, 09:54 AM
Ive been looking at the Fm13 or 14. I just wonder what gain hp power wise over my X1.

Black02SS
11-21-2004, 10:06 AM
Holly Crap that is unreal!! Awsome!!

Turo
11-21-2004, 10:28 AM
what rpm are you revving your car up to? im trying to decide between the f11 and the f13, but on stock internals i dont want to rev past 6500 and the f13 says it has a 2500-6800rpm range

Black02SS
11-21-2004, 10:30 AM
If you notice on the dyno graph, the car makes power all the way up to 6400 rpms then starts falling off. I would say if you wanted, you could shift at 6500 to be on the safe side. JMO

My FM11 stops making power at about 6100 rpms.

Turo
11-21-2004, 10:35 AM
If you notice on the dyno graph, the car makes power all the way up to 6400 rpms then starts falling off. I would say if you wanted, you could shift at 6500 to be on the safe side. JMO

My FM11 stops making power at about 6100 rpms.

very true very true. hmm, i may go with the f13 after all then, ill see what fms tells me :).

by the way, GREAT numbers, Kalijah98z!

KB99WS6
11-21-2004, 10:52 AM
Those number's are pretty much unbelievable.

You figure WITHOUT the cam, at the VERY MOST that car would pull 370rwhp. I actually can't ever recall see a just-exhaust LS1 pull that much but for arguments sake, we will say 370rwhp. That would mean the cam is producing a minimum of an additional 70rwhp. I have never heard of just a cam adding that kind of power. I don't know, something just seems fishy b/c those number's are literally insane! 440rwhp 230/232 cam only?? And thats with stock TB too, lol. Come on....

Also, only 30 miles on that motor and you are doing balls out dyno's?? Arent you supposed to let the motor break in before you start winding it out like that??

Black02SS
11-21-2004, 11:23 AM
I guess I don't personally see where they are that unbelievable. Damian made 470+ with his FM13 and Gomer did good numbers as well.

On my car, I personally didn't see any gain on the dyno with my Shaner TB. Add a set of heads to his car, say 40hp gain, that would bring him up to 480hp. Subtrack say, 10 hp for a rear and he is at the 470 range. Doesn't seem to unreasonable to me.

30th t/a
11-21-2004, 12:17 PM
this is what i think. the numbers are freaking awesome BUT i dont belive its the cam. that cam usually is around 400rwhp 95% of the time which is still excellent for a cam only. I bet if he put a tr224 in that car it would make 415 + rwhp which is alot more RWHP than the norm. it seems Damians car gomers and a few others ALWAYS make big numbers with ANY cam and people see this and wow! thats what i want and then they go the setup and dont produce the same numbers of these freak cars.

kinda like my setup. the guy before my me made 430rwhp with a AUTO using my heads i bought from him and the same exact comp cam. i figured with my 6speed i should see 450ish rwhp. Mikey from rapid did the tune and he got 429rwhp out of the setup. hmmm.

congrats on the excellent numbers and a freak car.

KB99WS6
11-21-2004, 12:26 PM
Good point 30th. I am thinking the guy got an 02 LS6 motor, not an 02 LS1.

I noticed Damian said this is the best daily driver cam around?? I would have thought this wouldn't be all that daily driver friendly. I'd like to hear mor input on there characteristics:

idle (futral description is "rough")
How is it in stop and go traffic.
How is the power around town at low rpms?
How is it cruising at 70 mph in 6th gear-do you get a chug-chug trying to go up a slight incline?

Black02SS
11-21-2004, 12:37 PM
I will tell you this KB, I went from a comp 224 to my FM11 (228/230) and the drivability and other aspects you mention are better. With my car, 70mph with 4.11's I receive no surging.

KB99WS6
11-21-2004, 12:46 PM
Thanks for the input Black, but the FM11 is listed as "fair" idle + you also have heads to beef up the lower end of your power band + you also have 4.11's which means 70mp is a higher idle point for you.

Glad you mentioned your experience though b/c an FM11 cam was always a consideration for me. I have heard from a few people that it's a surprisingly smooth running cam. I also heard one sound clip of an FM11 on LS1sounds.com and it sounded smoother than all the TR224 clips I heard.

Black02SS
11-21-2004, 01:35 PM
Thanks for the input Black, but the FM11 is listed as "fair" idle + you also have heads to beef up the lower end of your power band + you also have 4.11's which means 70mp is a higher idle point for you.

Glad you mentioned your experience though b/c an FM11 cam was always a consideration for me. I have heard from a few people that it's a surprisingly smooth running cam. I also heard one sound clip of an FM11 on LS1sounds.com and it sounded smoother than all the TR224 clips I heard.


I will get ahold of my buddy. He swaped in a FM11 for his TR224, cam only. Thanks for the compliment, I do believe that is my sound clip. :)

Also, I did notice a low end difference when I swapped to the FM11.

Damian
11-21-2004, 02:08 PM
KB99WS6, I made the #'s in my sig with the FM13 and Stg 1.5 (stock exhaust valve) TEA heads through an 8.8/4:10 combinations. Without the heads, my car would still be in the 410-420 rwhp range still. This guy's #'s are very much believable. You forget to consider he still has the 10 bolt/3:42's, that is the absolute BEST combination to dyno with in an M6. With a 12 bolt/4:10 setup, it'd be a 420-425 rwhp car. Still bad ass #'s regardless...

As for the driveability to the FM13, factoring in how much power it makes, it's second to NONE. I've driven all over the planet with that cam, including a 880 mile round trip to Florida which I got 29mpg. I have zero driveabiity tuning and a STOCK IDLE. It's by far the best driving 230 cam on the planet IMO....

YsoFast
11-21-2004, 02:15 PM
Kalijah98z,
What is the LSA of the FM13 cam that you are running? Great numbers by the way.

KB99WS6
11-21-2004, 02:15 PM
Damian, thanks for the feedback, but how in the world can you have a STOCK idle, when even Futral themselves advertises the cam as having a "rough" idle??

FRCBobby
11-21-2004, 03:08 PM
Great numbers for cam only, threads like this is definitely putting Futral to the top of the list for who I will get my cam from.

I think you can get this cam on a 112 or a 114 lsa

Also I don't think there is any way that the car would have stock idle

Jason99T/A
11-21-2004, 03:23 PM
Good point 30th. I am thinking the guy got an 02 LS6 motor, not an 02 LS1.


The motor is definitely a '02 LS1 w/ LS1 "241" castings. These are proven to make a few more hp than the older "853" LS1 castings (~5hp). This, along with the stock rear/3.42s, and a fresh motor, the #s are definitely believable.

Jason

gomer
11-21-2004, 03:47 PM
I ran the F13 for a while and it is a damn nice cam. I was really impressed with the power I made with it. I did 474/422 thru a 10 bolt and drove the car every day with that cam. I'm running the F15 (ron jeremy) cam right now and I'm REALLY impressed with how good it drives. I found a few problems with the car today, so expect some pretty good numbers from it later this week when I redyno :devil:

Futral
11-21-2004, 04:03 PM
Congrats Elijah !

I know you are real happy with the results,and you only wanted 400 ;)

The first few pulls were rich,dipped off the graph. During some 41x pulls,the A\F was about 11.8- 12.0,the 430 pull ended up at 13.0-13.2 A\F. Final timing was 28 deg.

I was shocked also and had to make sure it had 241 heads.

Guess he just got a good non-rung out Wednesday motor :D Also everybodys interpatation of idle is different,we list fair or rough to give customers an idea of idle. This cam does idle good with proper tuning,but not silky smooth like stock.

Wicked_Hugger99
11-21-2004, 04:07 PM
Would that F13 be a good step up from my F11 Allan, while still playing well with 50-75hp wet juice?

Sport Side
11-21-2004, 04:17 PM
What's the lsa and icl of this camshaft?

Thanks.

Damian
11-21-2004, 04:51 PM
Alan is an ULTRA conservative puss ( :P ) when it comes to describing idle, so let me clarify it a little better for you ;)

The FM13 won't idle "IDENTICAL" to stock, what I mean by "stock" is......It does not die, does not surge, does not hot start, etc....I ran the Fm13 for almost 12 months, and everytime I turned the key the car would fire right up and catch idle immediately, with ZERO driveability tuning need.

I've had several newbies hear my car w/ the FM13 and had no clue. Unless someone knows LS1's, they probably wouldn't be able to tell....

KB99WS6
11-21-2004, 04:56 PM
Thanks for the clarification Damian, now lets talk about how hard this cam is on the valvetrain compared to a TR224. Can you offer some insight to this? With the PRC spring kit, how long would you say the valvetrain would be good for before need atleast a spring change?
Thanks,
kevin

Futral
11-21-2004, 05:01 PM
Would that F13 be a good step up from my F11 Allan, while still playing well with 50-75hp wet juice?

Ryan,the F13 will be good step up over the F11,but only worth about 6-8 HP. It will make more power with the nitrous.

Didn't know you had Speed Inc doing you a turbo setup,how is coming along?

Futral
11-21-2004, 05:01 PM
What's the lsa and icl of this camshaft?

Thanks.

112 LSA,and Jason should have put it at 108 ICL.

Damian
11-21-2004, 05:05 PM
Thanks for the clarification Damian, now lets talk about how hard this cam is on the valvetrain compared to a TR224. Can you offer some insight to this? With the PRC spring kit, how long would you say the valvetrain would be good for before need atleast a spring change?
Thanks,
kevin

Alan would be the better man to ask about this. I dont have much experience with different valvetrains and the FM13. I ran Comp 987's with this cam and had no problems. I "think" FMS recommends the new Crane 832's.

Also, FWIW my FM13 was on a 114 LSA. The 112 will idle a little rougher.

Futral
11-21-2004, 05:18 PM
We use the Manley #221426, PRC springs or Crane 832's. The Crane's take more shims to get the pressure right,while the Manley's only take one .030" shim and so far the PRC do not require a shim. We don't have much run time with PRC's so I can't give you a good take on life span. The Manley's have been to 20K miles so far w\o any issues.

The F13 is no harder on the valvetrain then the TR224.

Wicked_Hugger99
11-21-2004, 05:44 PM
Ryan,the F13 will be good step up over the F11,but only worth about 6-8 HP. It will make more power with the nitrous.

Didn't know you had Speed Inc doing you a turbo setup,how is coming along?
Yeah, ive been dealin with them for bout 2 years now with my SS. They just picked up the car Thursday night( since i cant bring it to them) so i guess they'll begin workin on it soon. Will the F13 still act well w/ my vig3200 or should i re-stall? Im tempted to see about getting my TA shipped to you some how if im not healed by late december. More than likely im just gonna get an all new cam kit from you instead of pulling the older stuff out. I should know by mid next week whether ill be adding that nx kit as well. Cant wait!!

KB99WS6
11-21-2004, 05:45 PM
We use the Manley #221426, PRC springs or Crane 832's. The Crane's take more shims to get the pressure right,while the Manley's and PRC's only take one .030" shim. We don't have much run time with PRC's so I can't give you a good take on life span. The Manley's have been to 20K miles so far w\o any issues.

The F13 is no harder on the valvetrain then the TR224.

Wow, thats a bold statement. I am not saying you are wrong or anything. Its just a pretty exciting thing if you can make a cam that produces 15-20rwhp more than the infamous TR224 w/no penalty driveability wise or reliability wise....thats pretty amazing if true!

PS-I still can't figure out how a .59X lift is no harder on the valvetrain that a .56x lift cam is....

Can anyone enlighten me????

Futral
11-21-2004, 06:08 PM
Wow, thats a bold statement. I am not saying you are wrong or anything. Its just a pretty exciting thing if you can make a cam that produces 15-20rwhp more than the infamous TR224 w/no penalty driveability wise or reliability wise....thats pretty amazing if true!

PS-I still can't figure out how a .59X lift is no harder on the valvetrain that a .56x lift cam is....

Can anyone enlighten me????

Total lift is not the spring killer,unless you get real close to coil bind. Heat,ramp speeds(open\closing) and total valve weight for the given spring is the killer.

I feel that the biggest gain from no loss of drivabilty is just good tuning. The cam design just helps make more power.

Futral
11-21-2004, 06:11 PM
Yeah, ive been dealin with them for bout 2 years now with my SS. They just picked up the car Thursday night( since i cant bring it to them) so i guess they'll begin workin on it soon. Will the F13 still act well w/ my vig3200 or should i re-stall? Im tempted to see about getting my TA shipped to you some how if im not healed by late december. More than likely im just gonna get an all new cam kit from you instead of pulling the older stuff out. I should know by mid next week whether ill be adding that nx kit as well. Cant wait!!

Cool deal,should be killer. The Vig 3200 will be ok with the F13 since it acts like a 3600. Just let us know when you are ready to ship her.

KB99WS6
11-21-2004, 06:15 PM
Allan,

So you are saying that Heat,ramp speeds(open\closing) and total valve weight is no more with this FM13 cam than it is for the TR224 cam??

And would you say an FM13 cam + PRC kit should be good for at least 20k miles before a spring change?? If not the PRC kit than what kit would you recommend for 20k+ trouble free miles....

Grant B
11-21-2004, 06:19 PM
Damn, every FMS cam dyno I see is pretty impressive...

Do you guys have a setup that is basically maintenance-free for a daily driver and road course car? Looking for power from 3500 to 6400.

Are your lobes more or less aggressive than comp XEs?

Thanks,
Grant

Wicked_Hugger99
11-21-2004, 06:53 PM
Cool deal,should be killer. The Vig 3200 will be ok with the F13 since it acts like a 3600. Just let us know when you are ready to ship her.
I wanna bring it down myself cuz i had a good time down there last time but if im not better by late december/early Jan then ill arrange for shipping.

jrp
11-21-2004, 07:40 PM
stuff like this should always be taken with a grain of salt. the fm13 has been around for a while and these have got to be the highest cam only results i've seen irregardlesss of tranny/gear combo. i'd like to see what it traps at, with that power 118+ plus shouldnt be much of a problem.

jrp
11-21-2004, 07:44 PM
and 350rwtq at 2800 rpm and 400rwtq at just over 4k cam only :huh:. you sure those 241 castings arent ported. that tq curve is remenicent of all those TEA and FMS combo cars that Allen tuned at back in feburary.

BADFNZ
11-21-2004, 09:32 PM
Keep in mind a brand new motor is going to dyno a little higher due to new rings, valve seals, etc.

I put down 404/424 with a TR224 in a LS6 crate motor with 500 miles on it. This was through a 3500 stall UNLOCKED. I took those numbers with a grain of salt.

Not to take anything away from the F13, it seems like a bad ass cam and FMS might get my business when it comes to a new cam.

Kalijah98z
11-21-2004, 10:57 PM
My motor is an LS1 and not LS6. I got Jason to check the block # on the back side of the block and it isn't even an LS6 block. The heads are 241.

The motor was installed in the car when it had like 20 miles on it, i drove it to FMS and then he dynoed it, so i say around 30 miles on the motor.

When Jason was installing the cam and springs he even asked me how many miles were on the engine, and he said it was very believable because it was that clean.

I don't see how you guys are going to doubt Allans tuning #'s with his own cam? I brought him my 98 with 114K on the motor with a lid, mac mids and hooker catback, and he pulled 7hp and almost 12tq from an otherwise stock oilconsuming 98 motor. Like he told me, its because i have a stock 10 bolt with 3:42's.

I will have some track times after thanksgiving and Allan thinks 120mph won't be too hard to do with some DR's.

Im getting my car back on Wednesday and i'll let you guys know what i think of it. Going from 335hp/355tq, to 430hp and 414tq!!!

Wicked_Hugger99
11-21-2004, 11:55 PM
(I don't see how you guys are going to doubt Allans tuning #'s with his own cam?-Quoted from Kaligah98z) I dont doubt his tuning abilities either . He got 388rwhp locked outta my z28 which had 105k miles on it at the time. Stock heads w/ F11, macs and just normal bolt-ons. Way more than i expected. I dont doubt his abilities one bit. Thats one reason im going with them again.

jrp
11-22-2004, 01:15 AM
My motor is an LS1 and not LS6. I got Jason to check the block # on the back side of the block and it isn't even an LS6 block. The heads are 241.

The motor was installed in the car when it had like 20 miles on it, i drove it to FMS and then he dynoed it, so i say around 30 miles on the motor.

When Jason was installing the cam and springs he even asked me how many miles were on the engine, and he said it was very believable because it was that clean.

I don't see how you guys are going to doubt Allans tuning #'s with his own cam? I brought him my 98 with 114K on the motor with a lid, mac mids and hooker catback, and he pulled 7hp and almost 12tq from an otherwise stock oilconsuming 98 motor. Like he told me, its because i have a stock 10 bolt with 3:42's.

I will have some track times after thanksgiving and Allan thinks 120mph won't be too hard to do with some DR's.

Im getting my car back on Wednesday and i'll let you guys know what i think of it. Going from 335hp/355tq, to 430hp and 414tq!!!

i dont see anybody doubting his tuning ability, i've seen what the can do. like i said, your numbers are remenicent of the dozen or so cars alan tuned that had TEA heads. but those guys had way more mods then you, fresh shortblock or not.

txhorns281
11-22-2004, 02:43 AM
i dont see anybody doubting his tuning ability, i've seen what the can do. like i said, your numbers are remenicent of the dozen or so cars alan tuned that had TEA heads. but those guys had way more mods then you, fresh shortblock or not.

agreed... I'll never know for sure, but I can say that this is a rare occurence... almost too rare... :confused: Congrats nonetheless

Damian
11-22-2004, 05:37 AM
It's a lot of power for stock heads, but anything can happen these days. 3 years ago, had you came on here and told ANYONE you made 450 rwhp with heads/cam you'd get laughed on the board. Heads/cam 346's are now making 500 rwhp, anything is possible.

FWIW, my setup was on a 114+0 setup. Had I been on a 108-110 ICL, I would have had a MUCH fatter TQ curve (I think).

jlaw
11-22-2004, 08:55 AM
Very nice numbers. As was mentioned before, I've never seen a cam-only F13 setup make anything substantially over 400. You're the exception to the rule.

By comparison, I made 393rwhp with my F13, tuned, full bolt ons through the old exhaust. M6, stock geared 10bolt. I don't think my car is a dyno turd either; Allan told me ~400rwhp is where that cam should have put me.

Take it to the track and see what it runs. :)

Kalijah98z
11-22-2004, 04:25 PM
Very nice numbers. As was mentioned before, I've never seen a cam-only F13 setup make anything substantially over 400. You're the exception to the rule.

By comparison, I made 393rwhp with my F13, tuned, full bolt ons through the old exhaust. M6, stock geared 10bolt. I don't think my car is a dyno turd either; Allan told me ~400rwhp is where that cam should have put me.

Take it to the track and see what it runs. :)


Well seems like i have a wednesday motor :)

Im getting the car back day before thanksgiving and the next following wednesday is when im going out to NPR to see what kind of MPH im gonna get on street tires. Hopefully i can find somebody to let me use thier DR's.

Allan is also doing his port/epoxy job on my throttle body and i hope he dynos it again to see what that difference made. I'll get back with ya'll with some times.

Elijah

Worm
11-22-2004, 05:17 PM
Nice Numbers man! This weekend my F14 goes in w00t! I'm super excited now.

Oh yeah, and BS!! BS!!
haha jk ;)

jrp
11-22-2004, 10:01 PM
It's a lot of power for stock heads, but anything can happen these days. 3 years ago, had you came on here and told ANYONE you made 450 rwhp with heads/cam you'd get laughed on the board. Heads/cam 346's are now making 500 rwhp, anything is possible.

FWIW, my setup was on a 114+0 setup. Had I been on a 108-110 ICL, I would have had a MUCH fatter TQ curve (I think).

thats true josh, but were not talking about say an fm14 or fm15 or another new FMS grind. were talking about an FM13 thats been around for a long ass time now with a plethora of results to go through. thats like someone posting up a 415rwhp cam only with a tr224.

but i guess you could chalk it up to freak shit like jasons 393rwhp stock head with ls6 cam results.

Jason99T/A
11-22-2004, 11:13 PM
but i guess you could chalk it up to freak shit like jasons 393rwhp stock head with ls6 cam results.

It actually made 400rwhp with the FAST 78mm intake on it. ;)

KB99WS6
11-22-2004, 11:16 PM
393rwhp with an LS6 cam, huh? Hmm...I think he's packing a trick or two up his sleeve...

Damian
11-22-2004, 11:49 PM
393rwhp with an LS6 cam, huh? Hmm...I think he's packing a trick or two up his sleeve...

Nah, Jason's car is just one of a kind. He's ALWAYS been able to produce unreal #'s out of his setups....He's the TR posterchild, he has too ;)


JRP, I feel ya. I dont really get into the dyno wars anymore, to busy ridin my bike these days :D

KB99WS6
11-23-2004, 07:20 AM
Nah, Jason's car is just one of a kind. He's ALWAYS been able to produce unreal #'s out of his setups....He's the TR posterchild, he has too ;)


JRP, I feel ya. I dont really get into the dyno wars anymore, to busy ridin my bike these days :D

ONE of a kind? Hows that when he just installed the author's motor which is just as much if not more of a freak. Thats why I said that. Maybe I should fly him to NY to touch and bless my engine ;)

Damian
11-23-2004, 04:25 PM
ONE of a kind? Hows that when he just installed the author's motor which is just as much if not more of a freak. Thats why I said that. Maybe I should fly him to NY to touch and bless my engine ;)

Well lets see here. Jason has been the ONLY ONE too.....

-Go 121 mph with a TR224/stock heads setup
-Make 455 rwhp with stock LS1 heads
-Run 10's @ 125 with stock LS1 heads
-Run low 10's @ 131+ with a Hydraulic setup
-Make 400 rwhp with an LS6 cam and stock LS1 heads

So yea, I think he's pretty much a one of a kind kinda guy/car ;)

KB99WS6
11-23-2004, 04:46 PM
You're missing what I was saying. I was mostly joking around pointing to the fact that his car is a freak and than he installs a motor in this guys car which turns out to be possibly even more of a freak. Things that make you go hmmm.... I think he be squirtin them cylinder walls with the same stuff Chevy Chase used on the bottom of his sled in Christmas Vacation.

YsoFast
11-23-2004, 04:49 PM
I think he be squirtin them cylinder walls with the same stuff Chevy Chase used on the bottom of his sled in Christmas Vacation.
:funny:

You do remember that the sled had a huge hole burn in the bottem of it and it was sitting by the trash can on the curb dont you? :jest:

Damian
11-23-2004, 07:54 PM
I gotcha. Enough with licking Jason's ball anyway :P

Back to our regularly scheduled program.....FMS....IS.....THE.....SHIT

Sport Side
11-23-2004, 08:36 PM
I gotcha. Enough with licking Jason's ball anyway :P

Back to our regularly scheduled program.....FMS....IS.....THE.....SHIT

Gotta question or two...

Just skimmin thru the FMS cam-selection page. All of the "custom" camshafts have a 112* seperation, or a 114* seperation. Most also, running 4* advancement.

Why are all of these Custom camshafts so similiar?
Where is the variety, for the "various" applications?

If this is all a valve event issue. Could someone please inform me of what valve events are being shot for and why?

All ears.

Kyle

pdd
11-23-2004, 08:40 PM
awesum :D

Damian
11-23-2004, 10:56 PM
Gotta question or two...

Just skimmin thru the FMS cam-selection page. All of the "custom" camshafts have a 112* seperation, or a 114* seperation. Most also, running 4* advancement.

Why are all of these Custom camshafts so similiar?
Where is the variety, for the "various" applications?

If this is all a valve event issue. Could someone please inform me of what valve events are being shot for and why?

All ears.

Kyle

Kyle, i'll let Alan chime in and answer that. I do not know enough about Alan's stuff to give a good explanation....

Futral
11-24-2004, 01:24 AM
Gotta question or two...

Just skimmin thru the FMS cam-selection page. All of the "custom" camshafts have a 112* seperation, or a 114* seperation. Most also, running 4* advancement.

Why are all of these Custom camshafts so similiar?
Where is the variety, for the "various" applications?

If this is all a valve event issue. Could someone please inform me of what valve events are being shot for and why?

All ears.

Kyle

Guess the "custom" just stuck . Most of them were customs to begin with that just got popular. We still do a lot of other custom grinds.

Damin,go easy big guy..I think Jason was just blessed or something.

like I said the results shocked me also. I don't see anything way out reach. Most F13 cam only with gears or rearend do 410-415. The results just depend on gear\rearend and bolt on setup. Not that it is a big deal,but he had a open y-pipe.

Its like this is more unbelivable then Jason doing 455 with the T-Rex?

Sport Side
11-24-2004, 07:56 AM
You wouldn't perhaps give a comment or two on valve events and why you choose them, would you Allan? :naughty:

Thank you for the response.

Kyle

Mike K.
11-24-2004, 08:24 AM
Man even a few days ago I thought that anybody with a 347 that dyno'd 460 + was bs,,,,, but then a local car just put down 480 hp with some TEA kick ass heads and a TREX cam and this was through full exhaust a 13.1 a/f and 28 degrees timing. I am/was seriously in shock but it happened none the less. I believe the FMS results with this cam only setup because I am actually starting to see really high numbers coming out in alot of these cars, the shit is actually happening lol. Can you guys honestly say that FMS has ever put up bad numbers??? ever??? Give the guy his props for an awesome setup.


I think our motors are just cam monsters, regardless of all the discussions we keep seeing bigger cammed cars making better power!!!!! Shit I'm on the verge of getting an FMS cam lol even knowing if I do that I'll have to listen to Vince f*ck with me day and night :) !!

Grats FMS and Kalijah98z for an awesome setup!

(P.S., Damian is an FMS nutswinger :) )

KB99WS6
11-24-2004, 09:28 AM
The only thing that scares me away from this cam a little is that a TR224 has a lot fatter low-end hp&tq wise...all the way to like 4k where its about even until 5k.

FRCBobby
11-24-2004, 10:44 AM
Back to our regularly scheduled program.....FMS....IS.....THE.....SHIT

I agree, I can't wait to get my FMS cam, I might go ahead and order this week instead of waiting to get one for Christmas.

JS
11-24-2004, 01:05 PM
Are u going to put a EWP on now since the car showed a good improvement running no belt.

Kalijah98z
11-25-2004, 02:22 AM
You guys Jason just installed my motor and thats it. And Allen tuned it, thats it. The heads are stock, i don't know what else to say, but that its a wednesday motor apparently. And as for Jason, well he does work at Thunder, so...i dunno...

Now on to my opinions on my car. Well i got it back on tuesday afternoon and wow was i surprised. All this hoopla about cam surge and "OMG you're gonna HATE 3:42's", well its not so bad with 3:42's and power doesn't hit/surge till 2500-3000 anyways, so being the pawpaw that i am, its amazing. Part throttle acceleration is really really nice now and to my surprise, the only time you can feel the "cam surge" is crusing around 1700-1900 rpm, and its just a little hickup more than a "surge". 60-70 on the interstate in 6th gear is smoothe. What im not used to though is that the car NEVER STOPS PULLING!!! i mean it never lets you come back up for air unless you shift!

Allan gets two, count em' 2 very very big thumbs up for the extremely streetable cam w/3:42's. It idles and doesn't miss a beat, hell i even turned on the A/C and it drove even better.

JS: I really don't think im gonna go with an EWP b/c the motor is brand new and those 9hp are (to me) not worth the money and worry of an EWP. Now when i get heads for it, thats a different story.

Next mod is deffinately 4:10s though. I drove my buddys Hawk with them and i just can't wait to have them in my car.

Elijah

AINT SKEERED
11-25-2004, 03:01 AM
I talked to Allan tonight and it looks like the f13 will clear my 2.02 valves so, I am going to join the Band wagon Too :devil:

GrannySShifting
11-25-2004, 03:38 AM
Allan... been trying to get ahodl of you for the last couple weeks.

Have a guy here has TEA 5.3s, 2.055 intake valve, regular setup on the exhaust side.

Looking at a F13 for the car, but intake valve clearence is a concern. You normally install them on a 108 ICL Backing that up a bit should help int valve p/v, but have you measured how much? He doesnt want to have to turn is past 6800-7000, So I was thinking tighten the lobe up and back up the ICL Whats ICL do you think it would clear with no problems? about .10-.15 though off the head

wicked LS1 Z28
11-25-2004, 03:48 AM
phenominal #s. what are the specs of this cam? stock heads? wow! :eek2:

who did your cam install? what is the going rate for cam installs?

PREDATOR-Z
11-25-2004, 06:56 AM
The FM13 is pound for pound the best fucking cam on the market for a daily driven LS1. The power/reliability combo CANNOT be beat...

Most of you guys 95% have M6's. How is it FM13 114 on an A4. and with what kinda stall are you running it?

thefast1
11-25-2004, 02:25 PM
Most of you guys 95% have M6's. How is it FM13 114 on an A4. and with what kinda stall are you running it?
id like to know this as well,i was looking at 3.73 gears and a ss4000 converter,how would the driveabilty be with that setup :joecool:

Brak Attack
11-25-2004, 02:37 PM
Anyone know if that cam will clear a 2.05 intake valve? I would call Futral to find out but today is THANKSGIVING.

Wicked_Hugger99
11-25-2004, 04:03 PM
Most of you guys 95% have M6's. How is it FM13 114 on an A4. and with what kinda stall are you running it?
Im prolly going with the FM13 soon and Allan said my Vig3200 should work fine with it since it really acts like a 3600. Hope that helps.

Sport Side
11-25-2004, 06:40 PM
Im prolly going with the FM13 soon and Allan said my Vig3200 should work fine with it since it really acts like a 3600. Hope that helps.

Interesting.
Take a peak at this:

http://image14.webshots.com/14/4/97/74/165849774jdRBwA_ph.jpg

3600 stall, leaves about 1000, maybe more, rpm until peak tq with the FM13 on this graph. Also, if you come off the line @ a lower rpm, you're giving up a shit load of power. Why not use a smaller camshaft? The green is the TR224. Alot more acceleration. What about something inbetween a TR224 and FM13. A trade off. Or retard the TR224 back 4 degrees. Different ve's, could help out.

Also, what is the shift extension of that stall. Don't wanna fall back into a dead spot.

PREDATOR-Z
11-26-2004, 03:49 AM
Yeah I've seen this before, amazing how TR224 actually has better power under the curve untill about 5250 :D

Black02SS
11-26-2004, 06:47 AM
From what I can tell from that dyno, its not even a "true" comparison. The a/f of all three dyno's is different.

gomer
11-27-2004, 04:27 PM
Allan... been trying to get ahodl of you for the last couple weeks.

Have a guy here has TEA 5.3s, 2.055 intake valve, regular setup on the exhaust side.

Looking at a F13 for the car, but intake valve clearence is a concern. You normally install them on a 108 ICL Backing that up a bit should help int valve p/v, but have you measured how much? He doesnt want to have to turn is past 6800-7000, So I was thinking tighten the lobe up and back up the ICL Whats ICL do you think it would clear with no problems? about .10-.15 though off the head

I ran a F13 112LSA 110icl for a while on a 2.08 and then a 2.055 intake valve without and P/V trouble. I clayed the P/V and it wasn't even very close.. I can't remember exactly what it was, it was a while back. I got it on a 110icl because I was afraid of the intake valve clearance. It peaked around 6350-6400 and made really good power.

GrannySShifting
11-28-2004, 10:29 PM
Thats what I told him Id do with it, is put it on a 110 ICL. i was thinking about tightening the lobe up to a 111 or maybe little tighter though. Do you have a dyno of that setup gomer? ( I know thats a dumb question with you ;) ) It wanted to be shifted at 6900 Id assume and he doesnt want to turn so many rpm

gomer
11-28-2004, 10:34 PM
Thats what I told him Id do with it, is put it on a 110 ICL. i was thinking about tightening the lobe up to a 111 or maybe little tighter though. Do you have a dyno of that setup gomer? ( I know thats a dumb question with you ;) ) It wanted to be shifted at 6900 Id assume and he doesnt want to turn so many rpm

Yes, I have a few with that setup... I'll post one up tomorrow when I get to work.

gomer
11-29-2004, 10:47 AM
Yes, I have a few with that setup... I'll post one up tomorrow when I get to work.

Here's the graph of a F13 112 +2 and stage II heads.

GrannySShifting
11-29-2004, 06:00 PM
was that head milled and by how much

gomer
11-29-2004, 06:50 PM
was that head milled and by how much

It was an unmilled TSP "raceport" LS6 style with 59cc combustion chambers, 2.055/1.60 valves, and the thin Victor graphite gasket that I always use... that was with the belt on, I think it did 474/422 with the belt off it.

GrannySShifting
11-29-2004, 10:09 PM
whats the thickness on those gaskets?

Kenny D
12-04-2004, 06:44 PM
Ive been looking at the Fm13 or 14. I just wonder what gain hp power wise over my X1.


I have Ported LS1 heads and a F13 cam. It made 434hp on new dyno with 3200 converter. Car ran a 11.4 on street tires all the way around. Car weights 3650lbs with me in it. Should be able to get into the 10's with this set up on slicks and rims with stock suspension. Very happy with my F13 cam. I would love to have them tune my car though. Maybe on vacation I can drive down there and get me a good tune job!

66ImpalaLT1
12-06-2004, 02:34 PM
Since everybody loves the F13 so much, I'll ask in this thread.

I just installed a F9 on 112 at 108ICL. Do you think I'll make better HP/Tq than the F13 or worse?

Kalijah98z
12-10-2004, 02:09 PM
not sure, but the size of the F9 im sure is a bit smaller in lift and duration, so it would make less hp and tq. As far as installing that cam on a 108, you'd have to PM allan and im sure he would have no problem talking with you about it. But drivablility will be awsome with your FMS cam.

66ImpalaLT1
12-10-2004, 03:45 PM
Actually the F9 is bigger. 232/236 .595/.598

gomer
12-10-2004, 05:32 PM
Since everybody loves the F13 so much, I'll ask in this thread.

I just installed a F9 on 112 at 108ICL. Do you think I'll make better HP/Tq than the F13 or worse?

It might make a touch more torque installed at 108, but I bet it would make a load more power above 4800 if you installed it at 110icl or 112icl.

AINT SKEERED
12-11-2004, 01:49 AM
I just installed the f13 on a 112 lsa at 108 icl. Cam hits a little harder then my c1 cam but not by much . I will find out Sunday what it does for the track #'s on same tune as the c1.


WIll get tuned by Allan after new years

Jason99T/A
12-11-2004, 02:10 AM
I just installed the f13 on a 112 lsa at 108 icl. Cam hits a little harder then my c1 cam but not by much . I will find out Sunday what it does for the track #'s on same tune as the c1.


WIll get tuned by Allan after new years

Everything doing OK still? Good luck at the track Sunday. :D

Jason

AINT SKEERED
12-11-2004, 12:59 PM
Jason , It cleared up and ran smoother with a little more lope. SOunds real nice with cutout open though. I have to bleed the clutch and then I can go drive it :devil:

It does sound like a solid roller instead of hydraulic though. I drove it and man it feels as streetable or better tehn the c1 cam. :hail:

Jason99T/A
12-12-2004, 10:44 PM
Jason , It cleared up and ran smoother with a little more lope. SOunds real nice with cutout open though. I have to bleed the clutch and then I can go drive it :devil:

It does sound like a solid roller instead of hydraulic though. I drove it and man it feels as streetable or better tehn the c1 cam. :hail:

Glad to hear man. The basecircle might be slightly smaller on the cam vs. your C1. If you want to come by and check lifter preload, let me know.

Jason

AINT SKEERED
12-13-2004, 01:21 AM
Kip heard it and said it sounds about like all other fm13 cams. Ran a new best with it today and untuned. 11.56 @ only 119.08 mph though.

Only a 1.69 60 ft on that pass as well so After tuning I believe it will really pick up.

SO far this cam drives better then the c1 :hail:
Da was +949 feet
Ran 11.58 against Tim H's wife Nikki but on a better 60 ft and mph then the 11.56 run. Must have slowed down from not shifting as fast or something :jest:

Tim should be sending me the Video soon :devil:

Jason , I will let u know when I can and maybe we can check the preload.
I thought about putting my stock pushrods in to see if it gets quieter though

B T
02-25-2005, 12:21 PM
Well seems like i have a wednesday motor :)

Im getting the car back day before thanksgiving and the next following wednesday is when im going out to NPR to see what kind of MPH im gonna get on street tires. Hopefully i can find somebody to let me use thier DR's.

Allan is also doing his port/epoxy job on my throttle body and i hope he dynos it again to see what that difference made. I'll get back with ya'll with some times.

Elijah

Im getting the car back day before thanksgiving and the next following wednesday is when im going out to NPR to see what kind of MPH im gonna get on street tires. Hopefully i can find somebody to let me use thier DR's.
>>>>>

TTT :) Do you have any track numbers yet?

Thanks!

BT

Kalijah98z
02-25-2005, 01:15 PM
Im getting the car back day before thanksgiving and the next following wednesday is when im going out to NPR to see what kind of MPH im gonna get on street tires. Hopefully i can find somebody to let me use thier DR's.
>>>>>

TTT :) Do you have any track numbers yet?

Thanks!

BT


Well the car has been totalled, but i ran it with 3:42's M6 and best was in my sig. Never got to run her with the 4:10s. I was hoping for 11.5x's or so.

B T
02-25-2005, 02:04 PM
Well the car has been totalled, but i ran it with 3:42's M6 and best was in my sig. Never got to run her with the 4:10s. I was hoping for 11.5x's or so.


Dang, totalled, sorry to hear that.
I hope you and whoever else that was involved is ok.

Thanks for the reply.