99FormulaM6

iTrader: (21)

ok, every car ive ever owned has been a ta/formula, and i want to have a new car now. or atleast a damn near new one with a factory warranty. i know i cant afford a vette, but im seriously considering leasing a 05 gto and trading in my formula. how may people leased their cars and then bought them? im pretty much clueless about leasing a vehicle. ive been getting in some trouble with my formula. and that doesnt really bother me, but im thinking when i goto court for my reckless driving ticket if i tell the judge i traded the car and got a new one, it might help... (maybe they wont know about the gto ) and from what i hear the new gto interior is really nice....and im liking the hp #'s too. as far as mileage goes on a lease...how does that work? im going to be underway on my ship for a while this year, so i wont have too many miles on it after a year. can someone explain the usual lease terms to me? im sure i could go ask the dealer...but thats just not smart

Ptvolly

I've owned and Leased. I like new cars way to much, so leasing is NOT a good idea for me. It's easy to get negative equity in a lease. If you don't plan on doing any mods, and won't go over the mileage, it can be a good deal.
Mod's won't necissarily hurt you when you turn it in (depends on whats done), but you certainly won't get any money for them. I will never lease again, but that's just me.
Buyouts on paper look good, but it's what anybody could get the car for used, the only exception being you've also paid for the depreciation (spelling?). The longer the lease the easier it is to fall into the neg equity, I personally would never go more than 3 yrs on a lease, but its what suits you and your budget that's important!

Joker

I sold cars while going through college and alot of them were leases and I personally don't care for them. There seem to be too many fees involved and in the end you are liable for too many variables. If there is excessive wear and tear the dealer can charge you for that, if you exceed the contracted number of miles you get to pay for those, then you have to pay a disposal fee and acquisition fee,and as stated above, you are basically paying for the depreciation on a vehicle with the buy out costs of the vehicle should you choose to keep it far above the average selling price for the year, make, model, milage, condition, etc.... And if you mod the car, unless you remove the mods and put the original equipment back on when you trade it back, the dealer can charge you for that as well and you lose the mods you payed for.

The only time I've seen someone walk away happy from a lease is when it is used for business purposes only or the majority of the time when these costs can be expensed to the business.

Look at a lease like renting an apartment, you have the same benefit of living there like someon whose buying outright, but in the end you have no equity and you've paid the same amount if not higher. (On the other hand a car depreciates dramatically while real estate appreciates.)

That's been my experience, I'm sure there are others who have had good experiences with them though.

z98

Don't lease.

Leasing is for suckers, they bend you over good when you sign, and when you turn it in.

The only way you should lease is if you are easy on cars, don't drive them often, and must have a new one every 48 months.

And a GTO is the same price as a slightly used Z06, and you can buy an extended warranty in some cases.

99FormulaM6

iTrader: (21)

ok. no lease it is im going to go look at some gto's today

BlueSix

I'm SmartBuying my GTO. It's basically a lease, except my name is on the title, so technically i own the vehicle, not GMAC. My terms are 48 months, and 60K miles. i was 3k upside down on my trade in, and i'm still only paying $326 a month for this thing. There is no way in hell i'll go over the mileage, and i plan to buy the car when my terms are up. The advantage of the smart buy is that if i finance my balloon payment through GMAC i will get the same interest rate i have now, 4.5%. If rates go down i can finance elsewhere, if they go up, i already have a killer rate. if i decide i don't want the car, i'll just give them the $250 fee and be done with the car.

Ptvolly

I'm bettin you can probably still get into some good trouble with the GTO too by the way!!

99FormulaM6

iTrader: (21)

i looked at the smart buy online and it seems like an alright deal... you can only drive 60k in those 48 months? is that how it works, and at the end of the 48 months, you either refinance to own, or pay the 250 and give it back? if i trade mine ill probably be about 3k upside down as well, and right now i pay 330 a month, so that wouldnt be a big change. the dealership i was at today have 2 04's and 1 05. the sticker was only a few hundred more on the 05, but he said i would get about 7k in rebates and stuff on the 04...which still doesnt seem like enough to me cause people on here have been getting them for 20k or so.

im sure i can get in trouble with the gto too...but when i goto court maybe the judge would see i got rid of the speed machine in favor of a nicer, precevably slower car...

Slow Z28

iTrader: (19)

*shakes head*

what's funny is everyone's misconception about leases. We don't have a disposal fee here. There is a $500 fee that GM has on vehicles for when you buy it out. That fee goes to the dealership you finish the deal through if you are buying it out. Reason being is that dealer # 1 already made it's profit from the lease and GMAC. What's to keep dealer #2(if you aren't in the same area) from wanting to help you out if the time they take isn't going to make them ANYTHING. If you don't like it, then negotiate better and have it taken away in the overall price of the vehicle. It's just reality.

Leasing can be a good thing. I go through cars as much as ideas on what I want to do to my Z. So let's see, only $1000 out of pocket(sometimes nothing), cheap payments, and the ability to get a new car in the next coming years. You HAVE to like the car you are leasing. Otherwise wanting to get rid of it will be hard. Plus, GM is offering "Pull Ahead" so you can get out of your 3 year lease at a little over 2 years in some cases with no penalty.

A person gets bent over no matter what if they don't keep the car in good condition. A dent in the fender isn't gonna hurt you anymore on a lease turn in as it would if you were trading the vehicle in.

a lease is a good way to get a cheap A-B car as well as getting out of alot of negative equity. figure if you roll your negative equity into a lease, you'll be free and clear of anything and ready to get into your next car in 3 years(or whatever your term is). in a buy, well now by paying $XXXX amount over what you would have without the negative equity, you have to look towards the time in which you'll finally have positive equity in the car, and I can guarantee you it won't be within that same 3 years. More than likely it won't be till the 50th month.

and i fully agree, anything more than a 3 year lease is really not a good idea unless you just REALLY need cheaper payments. even at that point, maybe you should be looking at a cheaper car and "suffer" for a couple years.

But to each their own. Just look into what you really want the car for. If you are gonna drive it alot and mod it, then you are better in a buy. If it's just a daily driver, look at leasing options.

Chris

99FormulaM6

iTrader: (21)

i never thought of it as getting rid of neg equity. i know i will take a hit on my formy if i trade it in. and BTW on the pontiac website, there is a 250 restocking fee if you dont buy the car... and if i buy a 04 or 05 gto, i wont be modding it for the simple fact i dont wanna void the warranty. i think i will look into the lease. are you a dealer or something? the only problem with a lease is i like to drive my car, and i dont want to go over the miles

Joker

I sold fords, nissans, and chevys and all of these dealers had a disposal fee of some kind as well as an acquisition fee, plus you had to pay all taxes and fees up front. Consumer reports had an article not too long ago that outlined the buying vs leasing option and it showed something like a 20 percent higher total out of pocket cost across the board on the leasing option. (if I can find this again I will gladly share it)

At all three dealers, any wear and tear, especially minor dings and dents were approximated at the highest cost possible in order to lower the turn in value and increase the liability of the lessor.

For example, a windshield that need to be replaced would be calculated the retail cost, that which the customer could pay to have it replaced and deduct this from the trade in value (which dealers hold back money anyway) and then if the trade or turn in took place, the dealer would have the glass shop he had an account with come replace it for much less, sometimes 50% less. I participated in these practices for nearly three years while working my way through college.

Dealers will hold back money every way they can to increase profit on the front and back end of the trades. Any dealer who states otherwise is being very untruthful. It is their job to make as much money as possible on every car deal. The ford dealer told us in a sales meetingonce and I clearly remember that day: "From now on, any deal that does not do 2500 on the front end and 1500 on the back end will not be allowed and you are responsible for building value in that car so we never leave any money on the table, our job is to get all their cash, if you can't do that you're fired."

I don't fault dealers for making a profit at all, thats business. The games that are played and ingrained through extensive sales training to maximize profit to the point of extracting every cent out of a customer I have a problem with.

When I did finance and insurance for a dealer, I learned that common practice at all the dealerships was to run the interest points as high as possible sometimes as much as 10 points higher, calculate the payment with the extended warranty already figured in, and if the customer objected, then whittle down the points maybe one or two, and then switch from the "gold" plan to the "silver" plan. The extra points made on the sale are pure profit for the dealer and are paid back from the lender. The higher the credit risk, the higher the take on the points. This is called the risk factor in finance.

There are actual schools where dealers send their F&I people to to learn how to do this and deal with the objections that always come up. This is a very psychological business, they do this everyday and the average buyer does it once every three to five years.

If you are intent on trading the car in after three to four years, will not put more than 12000 to 15000 miles on it, and are willing to have any dings, dents or other excessive wear and tear repaired before you turn it in, are not going to mod it (dealers consider modding a car excessive wear and tear as they assume the mods are for performance outside of the normal intended use of the car therefore subjecting the car to extensive wear and tear on the drivetrain, suspension, etc...) and/or will be able to expense this car to a business, then a lease might work for you.

Again, some people love the option of a lease and that's great, most in my opinion are not completely aware of all of the costs associated with them and fail to take these into account because of new car fever when going through the motions of buying a car.

Thats been my personal experience in selling cars, I'm sure others will agree and disagree. Those are their opinions. And if a dealer reads this and objects, that's because they are pissed because another consumer is aware of some of their tricks. I personally trust nothing a dealer has to say and I buy cars in a very informed manner. My car buying rules are as follows:::

I always arrange financing beforehand with my bank and have the interest rate confirmed with the amount I am going to spend set in stone before hand (some banks will actully share with you the book values of a vehicle to ensure you as their customer are not taken);

I never, ever let them arrange financing unless they can get an interest rate lower than my bank;

I never buy an extended warranty (very extensive markup);

I never let a dealer run a credit check on me as the more your credit is run, it lowers your beacon score and it shows where you have been shopping, plus, my credit is none of their business. It also allows them to steer you towards vehicles you may not want. If they can guarantee me a lower rate than my bank, then I let them run my credit but that is always a last step in buying.

I never purchase anything like window tint or accessories through them (extensive markup);

I never negotiate payments, always negotiate the final selling price of the car,I know what my payment is going to be on X number of dollars as figured by my bank;

I never allow the cost of the trade in to factored into the selling price of the car, always as a seperate car deal dependent upon the price of the car I'm buying and that is dependent upon what they will buy mine for, two different deals with one dependent upon the other, (I don't even tell them I have a trade in until I have agreed on the selling price of their car);

I never tell them where I have been shopping or looking at, none of their business at all, they can and will use this information against you to sell the vehicle;

I never negotiate with the saleman, always the sales managers. The back and forth game is designed to wear you as the buyer down and make you more agreeable. The salesman is also nothing more than a gatekeeper. They rarely if ever have the power to make a closing decision, always have to check with their manager. **** them, I always tell them that if they want to make they sale, they will listen to me and get the manager over to the desk with his book of invoices, calculater and a very sharp pencil or I'm leaving. And if they don't, I leave.

I always research the retail and book values of the cars I am trading and buying to come up with what I'm willing to pay.

Lastly, I never hesitate to walk out. That lets them know that you are in charge and will not play games.Nothing says "listen up ******" like starting for the door and having the sales manager run after you. These people are NOT your friends no matter how cool they sound or what they say.

Remember, no one starts out life wanting to sell cars, they always end up doing it for a living and very few rise above it. I was lucky and wanted a college education and the ability to do what ever I wanted in life and have.

Sorry for the long post but again, that's what my experience has been on both sides of that business. Good luck to you and hope it works out.

99FormulaM6

iTrader: (21)

very informative. i always confirm with my bank, and will never finance thru the dealer only because i KNOW for a fact my bank will have a lower rate. i use navy federal credit union, and they are well known for their low rates. i dont want an extended warranty or anything, but all the cars ive ever owned were ta's and i want a new car w/ a factory warranty. dealers usually try and dick me around at first, but i usually know more than them. i know what i want before i go in and i research. the guy today tried to tell me the new 05 gto was still the ls1 5.7litre. i had to take him to the rear of the car and point out the nice lil '6.0' in the back. does anyone know what the 18'' wheels will look like on the new gto's? its an option, but not available yet and it wasnt in their catalogs either. just curious as to whether or not theyll be chrome/polished aluminum or still silver

Slow Z28

iTrader: (19)

The lower rate compared to a dealer, well that all has to be explained to you before you sign the papers anyways, so if you miss that part, that's your fault. We go through 30 different lenders, and most of the time it's the same lenders that you as a customer use. People just don't know that. And the dealers that send stuff a certain way, do get rewarded. And to match your current interest rate, that is always an option. It's not like we'd never do that for a customer.

The funniest thing in this world, is the perception people have of car salesmen. Why is it funny? Most people think we are right above trial lawyers on the scum of the earth scale. But you know what, the people that lie the most, ARE CUSTOMERS. "I'll be back". "I just have to run to pick up the kids", blah blah blah.

If you've sold cars, you know the word tract, and that is if a customer's mouth moving, they're lieing. How many times have you told a salesman you got $500 or more for your trade in at a different dealer, yet you really didn't? Every single one of you have. How many times have you ever lied to a salesmen? Every single one of you have. Yet you waste 5 hours of time driving to different dealerships to end up saving $200(which was wasted in time and energy anyways).

Everyone wants the best deal. Everyone goes through the motions and works that salesman for every last nickel he has and some of you put them through a lot of **** and give them a huge hassle. Funny thing is that every one of you forgets that that is a PERSON on the other side. One who has a family and possibly kids. They have bills too. Yet you lie and set appointments to come in to possibly finish the deal and then don't think twice about showing up or even calling to say you aren't coming, meanwhile they have taken themselves off the floor in preperation for YOU and possibly missed out on income from someone else that walks in the door. And THEN you have the nerve to get pissed at him when he calls you for a follow up or don't even call back EVER when left a message. They do that for a reason. To earn your business. To support their families. That's why most of the salesmen you've dealt with aren't around come the next time around, cause they get treated like **** and just decide to move on. Especially when a customer thinks they are top priority with their 430 credit score and wondering why they can't get financed. Imagine someone just blasting you when they say X dealer got them approved without money down, yet right in their credit history, they either A. have never had their credit pulled at that dealer, or B. have been everywhere in the world.
Chris

PS- 99FormulaM6, I wasn't saying YOUR situation to get out of negative equity, I was just saying in general, to be able to get out of a bad situation earlier. And if you like to drive the vehicle, then by all means, don't lease it. Although there is different options for mileage, I will say that you suffer if you go to a longer mileage lease.

I've had customers do leases without any upfronts. BUT, watch what your interest rate does. If you don't pay security fee, interest rate goes up .5 point. Sometimes that is...

99FormulaM6

iTrader: (21)

well, as far as financing goes. no dealer ive ever come across has used my bank. when i was at the dealer getting my formy, i told them to see what rate they could get me..just so i could leave then and there with the car. and they came back with 16%. wtf is that? i went to my bank the next day and got 4.5%. granted thats not the case everytime, but thats just my experiance. and we all know dealers are people too...but the fact is...theyll try anything to get you to buy the car. when it comes down to it, i try and make appointments with a dealer if i made them. but honestly its not on the top of my list of things to do. sure, i might want a car, but i dont need one. if i make an appt to look at a car, and some chick calls me to go out...where do you think im going? the dealer aint gonna get me laid and sure we lie about other dealers offering more money for a trade in...but its not always a lie. when i had my 96, i was trading it in for my formy, the dealer with the formy offered me 2k, when the dealer down the road offered me 6k. granted i told the dealer with the formy i was offered 8k, but i knew they wouldnt give it to me and i was happy with 6 (i only paid 4 for the car ) thats just the way life is. everyone is looking out for themselves and dealer especially should be prepared to be lied to and **** on by as$hole customers. if i end up not buying a car, if i had a good experiance i do refer people, but if the salesmen sucked and didnt help, ill tell friends to go somewhere else.

and thank you for the information on leases

Slow Z28

iTrader: (19)

By all means, if a dealer can only get you 16%, **** them. Hahaha. I am not that dumb. And I agree, if a salesman is ****, dont' deal with him. You might find a better one at the same dealer a different day if that's the only dealer that has the car you want. Most dealerships HATE dealer trades, but they'll do it if necessary.

The lie, cheat, steal thing I was not prepared for when I first worked the autobiz when I was 18. Fresh out of graduating high school, not something I expected. Hell I hated trying to screw customers, so I had to get out of that dealership. I stayed away for a bit. I got back into it with the expectations that it would be tough especially with the economy.

The "negotiations", well that's the fun part. When I was a salesman, that was my favorite part and couldn't wait to get into it. Find them the car that best suits their needs and go from there. That's where the biggest problems came in, customers that said that it fit what they wanted it to do, but they didn't even like it all that much, and when we realized that nothing else we had fit what they needed, I told them I wouldn't sell them a car. I told a number of customers that I didn't want to sell them a car, only because what we had wasn't right for them or they had too many issues with it. That caught alot of people off guard. Also helped me get referals from those customers I didn't even sell too. Also helped me get out of sales and into a steady paycheck

Just remember this, we try to get you to buy the car without leaving because the moment you step out of the door, the chances of you coming back to buy from us have dwindled to about 20%, even if we were the nicest people. The next dealer will beat us by $100 and the next one will beat that by $100. And i'm at a chevy dealership, how many of those do you see around your area. I can count 8 within 30 minutes of my dealership.

Letting you take the car home to the wife, or even overnight? That isn't to show trust. That isn't doing you a favor. It's a nice way of making sure you have to come BACK, hahaha

BlueSix

Very few people have gotten GTO's in the 20K range. Those that have used the GM round up from the GM credit card (mastercard, visa, whatever the hell is it). I got mine for a little over 23K....dealer "invoice" minus 5500 rebate, minus 3 $500 dealer coupons.

I can "only" put 60K miles on the car over the next 4 years. That's 15K a year..i don't drive that much. If i go over i'll just trade the car in a month before the smartbuy is up and not worry about over mileage charges.

99FormulaM6

iTrader: (21)

well, with all the gm incentives, the guy said i got 1500 for being a prior gm owner, and 500 military...and im not willing to pay much more than 20k...just cause i know people have gotten them for that much

BlueSix

You're lookin' at 7K off the car then. talk 'em into the 29-30K range, then apply the rebates. The only way you will get one for 20K is if you have the GM card. I don't think anyone has gotten below 22K without the roundup points from the Gm card.

Joker

True enough as written above!

My favorite part of the sales game was demoing the car, showing them everything I could about it because I'm a car nut and I would get some people so excited I thought they would ruin the leather seat. I was averaging 15 cars a month with 30 % on the front and 20% on the back, with an average deal of 3k net and some as high as 8k net. Nice living but trying to take twelve hours a semester and keep the grades up was a challenge when hitting 50 hours per week and I was part time!

The final straw came when a 65 year old lady called me a damn liar because I denied promising her window tint after we had closed the deal and were about to go into F&I. Luckily, I wrote down everything discussed and agreed upon and this wasn't on there. I tore up the paperwork and told her to get the **** out. She freaked and asked for the manager, I told her to go find him herself and that I didn't need this job that bad to put up with her ****. The sales manager tried to save the sale by jumping on me but was on my side completely when he saw what a bitch she was and she tried playing the same **** on him. I quit that day and finished the last year and a half of my undergrad living off of savings from the past three years. I still get calls from dealers every once in a while who want me to sell part time while I'm doing my grad degree.... **** that!

I also had a guy who wouldn't say **** so I couldn't get any qualifying questions answered at all, just blank looks and stares like I'm some kind of leper. He spent four hours walking around on a Saturday looking at these 30k conversion pickup trucks, sitting in them, adjusting the seat, starting and turning off the motor, popping the hood and acting like a mechanic, and he's dressed like a gay country singer with his purple jeans, ostrich skin boots, big ******* hat and big *** shiny buckle while his wife was dressed in a plain sack dress that was dirty, and his five kids ran around the lot in their underwear and no shoes like heathens. I finally land him on a vehicle that he apparently likes and it turns out this **** is on welfare and "needs something to drive to get downtown to make sure my paperwork stays in the system and I can get my checks on time and not have to ride the bus" I tossed that loser out so quick He's probobly still standing there going wtf???

There are two sides to that business as shown, customers should be aware of the processes used and they should also be understanding of the people in that line of work as well.