LM-1 and your stock narrow band - Questions
07-26-2005, 10:31 AM
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LM-1 and your stock narrow band - Questions I recently configured a Innovate Motorsports to emulate my stock narrow band sensor. I have the setup up and running at this present time but it occasionally throws a code. It seems the PCM thinks the sensor is bad because it is not swinging fast enough. I have narrowed this problem down to the range on the emulating analog port on the LM-1 having to wide of a band. I set it to 14.3 aft -> 15.1 afr but I still suspect this is to wide of a range.
Can anyone tell me what 0V and 1V is comparable to in afr with the stock sensor?
My writeup on performing this setup on a C5 as well as a HPTuners log where you can see what I am talking about can be found here:
http://kashmir.thend.org/~mkane/Corvette/wbo2.html
For some reason the page look horrible in anything except Internet Explorer but that's another problem.
Thanks in advance.
Matt
Can anyone tell me what 0V and 1V is comparable to in afr with the stock sensor?
My writeup on performing this setup on a C5 as well as a HPTuners log where you can see what I am talking about can be found here:
http://kashmir.thend.org/~mkane/Corvette/wbo2.html
For some reason the page look horrible in anything except Internet Explorer but that's another problem.
Thanks in advance.
Matt
07-27-2005, 09:14 PM
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Unfortunately, I don't think it is that simple. I am no engineer, but as I understand the NB's they can/will display different voltages in the "rich" region dependent upon the temperature of the exhaust gas. IMO, this is why there are so many different values/opinions on "what" the stock O2's should read at WOT.
450 mV is approximately 14.7:1. Above 600 mV is considered rich and below 300mv is considered lean. My guess is that 600mv on a NB is still very close to 14.7:1 (not under WOT). I would guess it is within 2% based on all my readings. The problem is once you get much above 700mV, significant changes in A/F can have very little impact to voltage changes. This is just the opposite of changes around stoich. Of course, the same is true in the "lean" area as well (large changes in A/F do not result in large changes in voltage).
What codes do you get? Do you have a graph/scan of O2 activity (and particularly do you have one with the actual WB values)?
450 mV is approximately 14.7:1. Above 600 mV is considered rich and below 300mv is considered lean. My guess is that 600mv on a NB is still very close to 14.7:1 (not under WOT). I would guess it is within 2% based on all my readings. The problem is once you get much above 700mV, significant changes in A/F can have very little impact to voltage changes. This is just the opposite of changes around stoich. Of course, the same is true in the "lean" area as well (large changes in A/F do not result in large changes in voltage).
What codes do you get? Do you have a graph/scan of O2 activity (and particularly do you have one with the actual WB values)?
07-27-2005, 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by torchredfrc
My writeup on performing this setup on a C5 as well as a HPTuners log where you can see what I am talking about can be found here:
http://kashmir.thend.org/~mkane/Corvette/wbo2.html
For some reason the page look horrible in anything except Internet Explorer but that's another problem.
Thanks in advance.
Matt
07-27-2005, 10:41 PM
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Originally Posted by SSpdDmon
I tried this with my LC-1 and I can't seem to get it to switch at all. Any ideas?
Can you post an HPTuners log of your setup? Also, what is your output channel on the LC-1 set to? Is the controller consistantly putting out 1V?
07-27-2005, 10:44 PM
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Originally Posted by superls1
Unfortunately, I don't think it is that simple. I am no engineer, but as I understand the NB's they can/will display different voltages in the "rich" region dependent upon the temperature of the exhaust gas. IMO, this is why there are so many different values/opinions on "what" the stock O2's should read at WOT.
450 mV is approximately 14.7:1. Above 600 mV is considered rich and below 300mv is considered lean. My guess is that 600mv on a NB is still very close to 14.7:1 (not under WOT). I would guess it is within 2% based on all my readings. The problem is once you get much above 700mV, significant changes in A/F can have very little impact to voltage changes. This is just the opposite of changes around stoich. Of course, the same is true in the "lean" area as well (large changes in A/F do not result in large changes in voltage).
What codes do you get? Do you have a graph/scan of O2 activity (and particularly do you have one with the actual WB values)?
450 mV is approximately 14.7:1. Above 600 mV is considered rich and below 300mv is considered lean. My guess is that 600mv on a NB is still very close to 14.7:1 (not under WOT). I would guess it is within 2% based on all my readings. The problem is once you get much above 700mV, significant changes in A/F can have very little impact to voltage changes. This is just the opposite of changes around stoich. Of course, the same is true in the "lean" area as well (large changes in A/F do not result in large changes in voltage).
What codes do you get? Do you have a graph/scan of O2 activity (and particularly do you have one with the actual WB values)?
I'm not so sure I believe what you are saying. From my understanding, the PCM takes a mean as the value for doing adjustments. The mean being 450mV for the commanded afr (14.7 in my case). Besides, the O2 sensor has a heater circuit and the exhaust gas temperature shouldn't make a difference in how much Oxygen is present in the gas. The temperature might make a difference in the volume of the gas but not the ratio of the mixture.
I basically just need to know what to set the curve to look like. The curve that came in the firmware from Innovate is way to wide. After narrowing down just the lean side I've stopped throwing a code saying that particular bank isn't switching.
07-28-2005, 05:54 AM
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I think you might try playing with the speed of the change in the "advanced" section of the output configuration. narrow band emulation is tricky stuff....
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07-28-2005, 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by torchredfrc
Can you post an HPTuners log of your setup? Also, what is your output channel on the LC-1 set to? Is the controller consistantly putting out 1V?
07-28-2005, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by DynotuneN2O
I think you might try playing with the speed of the change in the "advanced" section of the output configuration. narrow band emulation is tricky stuff....
I have seen these options and I have tried some of them but I have since gone back to the "Instant" setting. The problem, at least I think this is the problem, is that the narrow band emulation settings on the LM-1 are to wide. It is emulating from like 14.1 AFR to 15.1 AFR. I would like to know what the actual range on the stock sensor is... just narrowing this range (I did 15.1 - 14.7 = .4 and changed the 14.1 setting to 14.3) gave me more swing and the sensor more closely followed the other bank like it should. I guess I might just have to play with the ranges a bit more if no one knows the answer.
07-28-2005, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by SSpdDmon
Well, I have EFI Live, so negative on the first one. As for output channel, I don't recall seeing that one. Do you mean what my analog out 1 is set to? Off the top of my head, I don't know. I believe it's still set to the stock narrowband simulation. The signal I get from it is constantly close to .450mV. It may go up or down .02mV, but that's it.
The advanced tab on the LM-1 has some settings that would make the output constantly 450mV. Check to see if your LC-1 has these settings and change them to High Impedance mode, see if that works for you. Other than that though, these settings are for when it's warming up or when it's got an error (on the LM-1 anyway). Have you verified your wiring?
07-28-2005, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by SSpdDmon
Wiring is good to go. I'll check the LC-1 settings the next time I hook it up to the car. Thanks for the info.
07-28-2005, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by 87GMC
let us know im having the same problem with it switching
Are you using a LM-1 or an LC-1? If both of you are using EFILive, can someone post a comma separated variable file (CSV) so I can see what is going on in Excel (or an HPTuners file if you se HPTuners 87GMC)?
09-19-2005, 05:15 PM
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Well I've been playing with this a lot more over the past couple days and I've come up with a linear equation for what I believe represents the ARF:mV output on the O2 sensor over the narrow band range. This got my sensor switching to what I believe is an accurate representation of the narrow band output the PCM is expecting. I will post more on this when I get home and have my scratch pad in front of me.
Did you ever narrow down your switching problem 87GMC?
Did you ever narrow down your switching problem 87GMC?
