spinning a ls1 to 7500 rpm....
01-20-2003, 12:01 AM
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spinning a ls1 to 7500 rpm.... say with a built bottm end stock CI shortblock, would you be able to do this reliably? would there be any oiling issues? has it been done before? what is the ballpark cost to build a VERY strong bottom end (VERY high quality components to ensure durability..)
thanks for the info..
nitin
thanks for the info..
nitin
01-20-2003, 12:17 AM
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Re: spinning a ls1 to 7500 rpm.... Nitin, this has been done quite a few times. The two that come to mind immediately are GTS SS's car and the Futral Motorsport's Project Car. It does take a very stout valvetrain and a strong bottom end. A solid roller is almost a must, but this could be done with hydraulic lifters with an extremely lightweight and strong valvetrain (retainers, locks, valves,etc).
Reliability is a problem. The wear and tear is not linear as the RPMs increase. You have to be very careful in selecting very high quality parts and make sure motor is assembled with some extra care.
Hopefully, I'll have some dyno graphs from my new 346ci motor spinning to 7500 this weekend. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
Reliability is a problem. The wear and tear is not linear as the RPMs increase. You have to be very careful in selecting very high quality parts and make sure motor is assembled with some extra care.
Hopefully, I'll have some dyno graphs from my new 346ci motor spinning to 7500 this weekend. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
01-20-2003, 12:41 AM
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Re: spinning a ls1 to 7500 rpm.... In a porsche research article-
"After 6k, the wear and tear multiplies 60 times for every 1000 rpm. As well, after 8000 it multiplies 100 fold."
So that should give you an idea.
"After 6k, the wear and tear multiplies 60 times for every 1000 rpm. As well, after 8000 it multiplies 100 fold."
So that should give you an idea.
01-20-2003, 12:53 AM
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Re: spinning a ls1 to 7500 rpm.... </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by PhatT/A:
<strong> what's yalls opinions on reving to 7 grand often on a stock bottom end? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">There will probably be varying opinions running 7K on a stock bottom end, but IMHO, I wouldn't do it again. I bumped my 6900 RPM rev limiter for a second or two and spun a rod bearing. It's just not worth taking a chance on having to buy a new motor, luckily, I was gonna replace mine anyway, just not that soon.
<strong> what's yalls opinions on reving to 7 grand often on a stock bottom end? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">There will probably be varying opinions running 7K on a stock bottom end, but IMHO, I wouldn't do it again. I bumped my 6900 RPM rev limiter for a second or two and spun a rod bearing. It's just not worth taking a chance on having to buy a new motor, luckily, I was gonna replace mine anyway, just not that soon.
01-20-2003, 01:03 AM
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Re: spinning a ls1 to 7500 rpm.... What about spinning to 6500 (with the rev limiter set at 6700) with rod bolts, an ATI damper, Schubeck lifters, hardened pushrods, Isky dual springs, and Jesel rockers?? With the rest of the bottom end stock??
I understand that RPM stands for Ruins People's Motors, but I am looking to take advantage of a healthy cam without spending a load of cash on custom rods/pistons.
I understand that RPM stands for Ruins People's Motors, but I am looking to take advantage of a healthy cam without spending a load of cash on custom rods/pistons.
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01-20-2003, 01:09 AM
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Re: spinning a ls1 to 7500 rpm.... I have been running mine to 7K no probs for almost a year now....no oil consumption at all...stock oil pump with oil pressure still at 40 at idle when warm....do it alot and race her alot...I have stock lifters, hardened push rods upgraded springs and retainers...
01-20-2003, 02:38 AM
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Re: spinning a ls1 to 7500 rpm.... what would be the cam specs to take advantage of spinninf to that RPM <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
01-20-2003, 08:52 AM
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Re: spinning a ls1 to 7500 rpm.... 6500 on a stock bottom end and 6800 on a built bottom end are pretty common. You really need the whole package, including gearing, to need more than 6600 - 6800 rpm in these cars. You can go very fast with a good 6500 rpm set-up.
As far as cams needing that much rpm, IMO 228 intake duration and above will require 6600 or more. 226 and below can be run using 6600 or lower shift points and obtaining 98% of the cam's potential.
As far as cams needing that much rpm, IMO 228 intake duration and above will require 6600 or more. 226 and below can be run using 6600 or lower shift points and obtaining 98% of the cam's potential.
01-20-2003, 10:32 AM
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Re: spinning a ls1 to 7500 rpm.... </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by stang killer:
<strong> what would be the cam specs to take advantage of spinninf to that RPM <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I am going based on Sean Gustin's(silverPig) (GTP) Pig Cam that chris B and cam motion designed, i was told it peaks out at 7300-7500 rpm and pulls HARD all the way up to that point. I would no doubt go with a solid roller, as i believe it's the only way to go if you are building a motor. My only concern is the $ that it'll cost to swap from a hyd roller to a solid roller cam, what all would i need? Stronger valvesprings, taller valvecovers, different rockers, hardened pushrods? I know a little bit about solid rollers, but not too much, although i learn alot on corral's Xtech about em. Anyone have info on solid rollerS?
Would it be possible to run some mid 10's @ high 120's with a built bottom end, stock CI solid roller motor....i think that would be really really sweet!
Thanks for the info
nitin
<strong> what would be the cam specs to take advantage of spinninf to that RPM <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I am going based on Sean Gustin's(silverPig) (GTP) Pig Cam that chris B and cam motion designed, i was told it peaks out at 7300-7500 rpm and pulls HARD all the way up to that point. I would no doubt go with a solid roller, as i believe it's the only way to go if you are building a motor. My only concern is the $ that it'll cost to swap from a hyd roller to a solid roller cam, what all would i need? Stronger valvesprings, taller valvecovers, different rockers, hardened pushrods? I know a little bit about solid rollers, but not too much, although i learn alot on corral's Xtech about em. Anyone have info on solid rollerS?
Would it be possible to run some mid 10's @ high 120's with a built bottom end, stock CI solid roller motor....i think that would be really really sweet!
Thanks for the info
nitin
01-20-2003, 10:41 AM
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Re: spinning a ls1 to 7500 rpm.... </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Ws6Luvr:
<strong>
Would it be possible to run some mid 10's @ high 120's with a built bottom end, stock CI solid roller motor....i think that would be really really sweet!
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Nitin, GTS SS ran 10.66 @128.42 on a 1.528 60'. This was in not the best air (1100' DA) and the car had somemore left in the 60'. In -1500DA and his normal high 1.4x 60, the car would have easily gone 10.4x@130. This was with the stock LS6 intake and not the new sheetmetal intake FMS is currently testing. It would have picked up another .2/2mph with the intake like Allan did, if not more. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" />
<strong>
Would it be possible to run some mid 10's @ high 120's with a built bottom end, stock CI solid roller motor....i think that would be really really sweet!
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Nitin, GTS SS ran 10.66 @128.42 on a 1.528 60'. This was in not the best air (1100' DA) and the car had somemore left in the 60'. In -1500DA and his normal high 1.4x 60, the car would have easily gone 10.4x@130. This was with the stock LS6 intake and not the new sheetmetal intake FMS is currently testing. It would have picked up another .2/2mph with the intake like Allan did, if not more. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" />
01-20-2003, 11:00 AM
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Re: spinning a ls1 to 7500 rpm.... 7500 RPM -no problem <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
Like Jason posted,our company street car has a street solid roller and gets shifted at 7200 with an LS6 manifold and 7600 with the sheetmetal intake. cam is 233\233 .629\.629 112 .011" lash cam. It drives better than the big hyd cam cars.The car's first solid cam was 224\228 .580\.580 with Comp 941 springs! It was driven everyday by my mother,ran 11.35@123.5 with slicks and went a full year w\o adjusting the valvetrain,and was shifted at 6800-6900 RPM with stock bottom end.
With a stock bottom end I would limit it to 7K for extended usage. To go 7200+ will require a good parts and balance job.Also valvetrain parts is a major issue at this RPM level,the highr the RPM the shorted parts live,but soild roller is the only way to go for serious racing <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
GTS-SS motor is more of an extreme usage since it is more a track car-245\251 .740" lift cam,made peak power at 7100 and was shifted at 7600 RPM with an LS6.
If you need any help,just call or e-mail,we can supply the parts and make recommendations for you.
Like Jason posted,our company street car has a street solid roller and gets shifted at 7200 with an LS6 manifold and 7600 with the sheetmetal intake. cam is 233\233 .629\.629 112 .011" lash cam. It drives better than the big hyd cam cars.The car's first solid cam was 224\228 .580\.580 with Comp 941 springs! It was driven everyday by my mother,ran 11.35@123.5 with slicks and went a full year w\o adjusting the valvetrain,and was shifted at 6800-6900 RPM with stock bottom end.
With a stock bottom end I would limit it to 7K for extended usage. To go 7200+ will require a good parts and balance job.Also valvetrain parts is a major issue at this RPM level,the highr the RPM the shorted parts live,but soild roller is the only way to go for serious racing <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
GTS-SS motor is more of an extreme usage since it is more a track car-245\251 .740" lift cam,made peak power at 7100 and was shifted at 7600 RPM with an LS6.
If you need any help,just call or e-mail,we can supply the parts and make recommendations for you.
01-20-2003, 11:02 AM
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Re: spinning a ls1 to 7500 rpm.... </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Jason99T/A:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Ws6Luvr:
<strong>
Would it be possible to run some mid 10's @ high 120's with a built bottom end, stock CI solid roller motor....i think that would be really really sweet!
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Nitin, GTS SS ran 10.66 @128.42 on a 1.528 60'. This was in not the best air (1100' DA) and the car somemore left in the 60'. In -1500DA and his normal high 1.4x 60, the car would have easily gone 10.4x@130. This was with the stock LS6 intake and not the new sheetmetal intake FMS is currently testing. It would have picked up another .2/2mph with the intake like Allan did, if not more. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">DAMN! i get a hard on just thinking about goin that fast lmao. Does anyone sell a iron block 5.7, or is it only a 6.0? will the 5.7 liter block be alright? I really would like to build it and hope it lasts for 50K miles +, this **** gets too damn $ to rebuild every year...It will be a nitrous motor as well, thinking about a 175 shot direct port, then a 75 shot fogger, both TNT setups....my concern is will the block be able to take the nitrous PLUS spinning it to 7500...Just how strong would a built bottom end be, aluminum block makes me wonder...
thanks
Nitin
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Ws6Luvr:
<strong>
Would it be possible to run some mid 10's @ high 120's with a built bottom end, stock CI solid roller motor....i think that would be really really sweet!
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Nitin, GTS SS ran 10.66 @128.42 on a 1.528 60'. This was in not the best air (1100' DA) and the car somemore left in the 60'. In -1500DA and his normal high 1.4x 60, the car would have easily gone 10.4x@130. This was with the stock LS6 intake and not the new sheetmetal intake FMS is currently testing. It would have picked up another .2/2mph with the intake like Allan did, if not more. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">DAMN! i get a hard on just thinking about goin that fast lmao. Does anyone sell a iron block 5.7, or is it only a 6.0? will the 5.7 liter block be alright? I really would like to build it and hope it lasts for 50K miles +, this **** gets too damn $ to rebuild every year...It will be a nitrous motor as well, thinking about a 175 shot direct port, then a 75 shot fogger, both TNT setups....my concern is will the block be able to take the nitrous PLUS spinning it to 7500...Just how strong would a built bottom end be, aluminum block makes me wonder...
thanks
Nitin
01-20-2003, 11:05 AM
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Re: spinning a ls1 to 7500 rpm.... Futral-you came HIGHLY recommended to me last night, when this goes down, i'll be sure to give you a call...the stuff is just so damn expensive lol, at least for a broke college kid haha. time to save up those pennies...(although i have thought about getting a loan for 10-15k above what the car costs, then Voila! Motor money, with some left over for suspension and a cage lol <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> )
great info!
great info!
01-20-2003, 01:52 PM
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Re: spinning a ls1 to 7500 rpm.... </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Ws6Luvr:
<strong> Futral-you came HIGHLY recommended to me last night, when this goes down, i'll be sure to give you a call...the stuff is just so damn expensive lol, at least for a broke college kid haha. time to save up those pennies...(although i have thought about getting a loan for 10-15k above what the car costs, then Voila! Motor money, with some left over for suspension and a cage lol <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> )
great info! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You cant go wrong with Allan or Jason.Both are excellent shops to deal with.
<strong> Futral-you came HIGHLY recommended to me last night, when this goes down, i'll be sure to give you a call...the stuff is just so damn expensive lol, at least for a broke college kid haha. time to save up those pennies...(although i have thought about getting a loan for 10-15k above what the car costs, then Voila! Motor money, with some left over for suspension and a cage lol <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> )
great info! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You cant go wrong with Allan or Jason.Both are excellent shops to deal with.
01-20-2003, 02:02 PM
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Re: spinning a ls1 to 7500 rpm.... </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Ws6Luvr:
<strong> Futral-you came HIGHLY recommended to me last night, when this goes down, i'll be sure to give you a call...the stuff is just so damn expensive lol, at least for a broke college kid haha. time to save up those pennies...(although i have thought about getting a loan for 10-15k above what the car costs, then Voila! Motor money, with some left over for suspension and a cage lol <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> ) Futral came highly recommended to me to for tuneing , I'm glad I listend . <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
great info! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
<strong> Futral-you came HIGHLY recommended to me last night, when this goes down, i'll be sure to give you a call...the stuff is just so damn expensive lol, at least for a broke college kid haha. time to save up those pennies...(although i have thought about getting a loan for 10-15k above what the car costs, then Voila! Motor money, with some left over for suspension and a cage lol <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> ) Futral came highly recommended to me to for tuneing , I'm glad I listend . <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
great info! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
01-21-2003, 04:24 PM
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Re: spinning a ls1 to 7500 rpm.... Futral also came very highly recommended to me so that is why I went with him. His knowledge of the LS1 platform and customer service is top-notch!
