ArKay99

iTrader: (1)

I was setting up my valvetrain for my new LPE 403 and found this problem purely because I had the heads off and did it on the bench this time. As I was checking the wipe pattern to set the shim height I was using my dial indicator to measure the valve lift of the new cam, which is .610". As I approached .560" lift the rockers seemed to bind and go no further. I was like, wft? Upon further investigation I found the rockers were bottoming out and indeed binding on the mounting rails. The cam I was running was a .581"/.588" cam. Can you imagine what would have happened if I ran these with my new cam? You will notice that I undercut them previously with a flycutter to get more clearance with the retainers as they were binding on those as well. However, I didn't have a way of judging clearance on the trunion bottom while the heads were mounted.

One other thing I noticed was that even though my car started and ran very quiet as far as the valvetrain goes, my lifters would always bleed down and after it warmed up was very noisey. I think this would explain that, and also my valve guides were worn out after only 6k miles. I've read on here that some complained about thier Jesel lifters floating or flexing. I'm willing to bet they have a similar or the same problem.

Dimples in the steel mounting rail:



Dimples in the trunion bottom. Also notice where the mounting rail bolt has interfered with and cut dimples into the center of the trunion bottom:

PREDATOR-Z

Contact Jessel (or shop that sold them to ya)

Gary Z

I think flycutting the rockers was a mistake. The interference between rocker and retainer was an indication that geometry was wrong - pushrod length wrong or pedestal height wrong. Maybe valve tip was too deep in retainer.

KCFormula

iTrader: (4)

Are you serious? This is a common problem when using a double spring or any oversize spring. The right thing to do is clearance the rocker, been done for years on SBCs.



Yes this is almost certainly what is causing your guides premature wear.

ArKay99

iTrader: (1)

I don't see how the geometry was wrong. My wipe pattern was very narrow and right in the center of the valve tip. I had to put an .025" shim under the rails to get it right. The pattern was just on to the intake side at first. Also, I had .030" milled AFR's with an .040" gasket. I ended up running a 7.375" pushrod for ~.080" preload.

Also, I have to agree with KCFormula. Although I didn't want to clearance them, I've read of a few shops that clearance them because of this.

I could put them back in the milling machine and take off some of the corner at the base, but I chose to put these on the shelf for a minute and bought a set of the new Yella Terra Ultra light rockers.

I put this up as an FYI to others that may be running Jesel's and may be experiencing problems, or at the very least to check this just in case.

ArKay99

iTrader: (1)

Yes, I will contact Jesel on Monday. I'm sure there is an explaination for this. I bought them used from a member on this board, but they were perfect as he sold them to me.

Gary Z

I did not know this. It seems like poor practice to me.

Awake455

:subscribing:

Will be interested to hear what Jessel has to say....

KCFormula

iTrader: (4)

Its what you gotta do to go fast. I got a friend who refuses to believe that aftermarket stuff doesn't always fit perfectly too, but thats why his **** is still slow.

ArKay99

iTrader: (1)

I talked to tech at Jesel. This is what they said, not quoting. The SS Series rockers are only intended as a replacement for the stock rockers and are not designed to be used in the application of larger cams than stock lifts. They recommend the adjustable SS Series for lifts higher than oem.

Having heard that, I remember reading on the install page or the literature that they are designed for stock replacement only, or something like that.

I then asked what they would recommend as I now have an expensive rocker system I can't use in my current application. They recommended I take off what is necessary from the rail to get the lift clearance I need and not machine the rocker. This seems reasonable at first, however I am still getting interference from the stand mounting bolt heads on the rockers also, as can be seen in the pictures. So it looks like I will have to machine the stands about .050" off the lands surrounding the mounting bolts, and then counterbore the mounting bolt holes .050". For anyone using SS Series non-adjustable rockers please check your maximum lift height. Again, I found approx. .560" lift to be the maximum before interference occurs in my application.

Deeavi

iTrader: (16)

Jesel makes good stuff, but one size does not always fit all. The SS rockers will work with larger cams, but need to be setup correctly. I know guys who have been running them for years.

1997bird

iTrader: (2)

I was useing the same shaft mount as you are with a .578" lift cam without hitting, but like you we had to clearance the rocker body for the 1.53" OD valve spring. Of course at the time Jessel claimed they would clear a 1.46" OD at that point and time 2 1/2 yrs ago. Then the very next year (install time was Nov. 2006) reduced the valve spring size to 1.29" OD. Even with the set of 1.44" OD springs that I had they would not clear, so I wouldn't put to much faith into the info you get from the tech line. It does appear to me that your set of SS series has had some changes redesigned into them right where your red arrows are on the rocker bodies. My set had a rounded bottom body to them (right where your pic shows the body hitting), I wouldn't be afraid of clearancing them there. We made 445 rwhp & 406 rwtq SAE corrected on a stock bottem end 346 with these shaft mounts and haven't broke them yet.

ArKay99

iTrader: (1)

Agree 100% on Jesel quality. I love they rail mounting system and true shaft mount. It's the reason I bought them, and the reason I'm trying to get them set up correctly. By 'setup correctly' do you mean they have machined them to the application? What was the solution?

Deeavi

iTrader: (16)

I believe the geometry on the AFR heads is different from the stock type heads. You could have possibly shimmed the rails to raise the rockers up and also changed your push rod length accordingly. I have a friend who is running them on a set of LS6 heads and he has not had any problems that I am aware of. I will have to ask him

This is what the Jesel instructions state:

THE LS1 AND LS6 SPORTSMAN
SERIES ROCKER KITS DO NOT
HAVE AN ADJUSTABLE PUSHROD
CUP. THEY ARE DESIGNED FOR USE
ON A STOCK ENGINE WITH A
FACTORY HYDRAULIC-ROLLER
CAMSHAFT. IF THE CAM HAS BEEN
UPGRADED OR THE HEADS HAVE
BEEN MILLED THE ONLY WAY TO
ACHIEVE THE PROPER GEOMETRY IS
WITH DIFFERENT LENGTH PUSHRODS.
JESEL INCLUDES A PUSHROD LENGTH
CHECKER WITH THE ROCKER KIT TO AID
WITH THIS MEASUREMENT AND STOCKS A
HOST OF DIFFERENT PUSHROD LENGTHS
AND TYPES FOR ALL ENGINE MAKES.

I have a brand new set that I am trying to sell. I have decided to go with the J2K models instead.

vsocks1

iTrader: (6)

Sorry to dig up an old thread but just saw this. Just wondering if someone can give me a way to check the Jesel SS Series non adjustable rockers on my setup with the heads off the car. I have TFS 215's milled to 61cc, cam 232/236 .595/.578 113+3, and Jesel KSS-307070. Can I mock this up off the car somehow to check before my install?

vsocks1

iTrader: (6)

Can someone give me a procedure to check this out on my heads being off the car? I have a dial indicator...just don't know how to setup cam lift!

Deeavi

iTrader: (16)

You can check spring and rail clearance off of the motor, but the main thing you are going to have to do is get the push rod length and wipe pattern correct. Kinda hard to do off of the engine

vsocks1

iTrader: (6)

I know I can't get pushrod length off the car. I am going to try and check clearances and wipe pattern anyway since I have a few weeks before install. When I bought mine Jesel first recommended the J2K's for my setup but they were twice as expensive. When I pushed them for a less expensive alternative they gave me the Sportsmen Series part number and said they would be fine....but just were not adjustable. I have heard the Yella Terra's geometry was not ideal with my TFS 215's so I decided to try them.
We will see!