Custom fuel cell questions
05-08-2008, 03:20 PM
#1
On The Tree
Thread Starter
Custom fuel cell questions I am getting ready to tackle the fuel system on my swap and was wondering, has anyone made their own custom fuel cell? I was wondering what you did for materials, I'd like to do aluminum (what thickness and alloy) and I have a A1000 Aeromotive pump that I am debating mounting in tank, anybody have any suggestions or how to's? I don't want to use foam baffling but don't have any idea how to design a baffle system, or is a sumped cell good enough? I don't want to have to drive around with 1/2 tank at least all the time.
Any suggestions/pictures?
Any suggestions/pictures?
05-09-2008, 11:59 AM
#2
Cooks
I'm in the process of finishing up my home grown fuel system. I had two cells made (1/8" alu, don't know the alloy) that fit in right behind the driver and passenger and stradle the motor. The origional plan was to have Fuel Safe make a couple of bladders but that's been put on hold for a while due to the costs.
The current plan is to have the lids welded on the cans, then use a 4x6 fill plate from fuel safe. The 4 x 6 fille plate will allow the access I need to fill the can with foam. Also, the fill plate has a 2 1/4 inch fill with a flapper valve as well as a 1" vent with a roll over valve. The immediate issue is Fuel Safe won't sell a 4 x 6 nut ring,,, so I'm in the process of making those now. I'm also going to have a 6an fitting welded to the top for the return as well as one on the bottom to feed the fuel pump. I won't be runnng the pumps in the tanks as there isn't enough room for them. Each tank is about 6 1/2 gallons. I'm running each tank seperatly with their own pumps and regulators.
Fuel safe does sell flapper/baffles that would prevent sloshing. Take a look in thier catalog on page 9.
http://www.fuelsafe.com/pdf/PartsandAccessories.pdf
Another though may be using a swirl pot. That is use a regular low preasure pump from the tank into a small container and from there use a HP pump to feed the motor, The return for the regulator back to the swirl pot and a overflow line from the swirl pot back to the tank. A lot of the GT40 guys use this kind of setup on a FI motor and I would of done the same if I had the room.
Here are a couple of pictures......
Good Luck!
I'm in the process of finishing up my home grown fuel system. I had two cells made (1/8" alu, don't know the alloy) that fit in right behind the driver and passenger and stradle the motor. The origional plan was to have Fuel Safe make a couple of bladders but that's been put on hold for a while due to the costs.
The current plan is to have the lids welded on the cans, then use a 4x6 fill plate from fuel safe. The 4 x 6 fille plate will allow the access I need to fill the can with foam. Also, the fill plate has a 2 1/4 inch fill with a flapper valve as well as a 1" vent with a roll over valve. The immediate issue is Fuel Safe won't sell a 4 x 6 nut ring,,, so I'm in the process of making those now. I'm also going to have a 6an fitting welded to the top for the return as well as one on the bottom to feed the fuel pump. I won't be runnng the pumps in the tanks as there isn't enough room for them. Each tank is about 6 1/2 gallons. I'm running each tank seperatly with their own pumps and regulators.
Fuel safe does sell flapper/baffles that would prevent sloshing. Take a look in thier catalog on page 9.
http://www.fuelsafe.com/pdf/PartsandAccessories.pdf
Another though may be using a swirl pot. That is use a regular low preasure pump from the tank into a small container and from there use a HP pump to feed the motor, The return for the regulator back to the swirl pot and a overflow line from the swirl pot back to the tank. A lot of the GT40 guys use this kind of setup on a FI motor and I would of done the same if I had the room.
Here are a couple of pictures......
Good Luck!
Last edited by gtpvette; 05-09-2008 at 12:05 PM.
05-12-2008, 09:47 AM
#4
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Hi Jon,
How did your header's work out for you? I'm at the gas tank section on my bulid and was wondering the same as you. What was the end results on your thoughts on the gas tank?
74ls1tr6 on britishv8.org
How did your header's work out for you? I'm at the gas tank section on my bulid and was wondering the same as you. What was the end results on your thoughts on the gas tank?
74ls1tr6 on britishv8.org
05-12-2008, 01:37 PM
#5
On The Tree
Thread Starter
Thanks for the info everyone, I have been thinking about the swirlpot idea, I know fuel safe makes some intregal swirl pots for in tank applications, I might have to look into that becuase I don't have the room to run two tanks/pumps, ect.
waterhook1, headers turned out well, I need to update my website with some more pics, but they look good and fit well.
I guess I am going to go with 1/8" aluminum, should be way thick enough, I am hoping to find/fab a filler-neck to use my stock fuel door in the rear and then run a longer rectangular tank behind the tires and attach it to the main hoop, that should leave me a little crush area between the body and the tank, I have to have a bulkhead too which i guess I'll make out of aluminum as well and vent it outside. I've been looking for parts, it seems no one has a good stock of parts to fabricate fuel cells, some places have this some that but i haven't found a one stop source yet, I mostly need bungs, I guess I'll have to fab everything else.
I am going to try and put the pump in-tank in a sumped area and then run some baffles in a sort of honeycomb pattern to keep slosh to a minumum.
Anybody have any other more tried/proven methods for baffles? i like fuel safes' stuff but good god it's expensive
waterhook1, headers turned out well, I need to update my website with some more pics, but they look good and fit well.
I guess I am going to go with 1/8" aluminum, should be way thick enough, I am hoping to find/fab a filler-neck to use my stock fuel door in the rear and then run a longer rectangular tank behind the tires and attach it to the main hoop, that should leave me a little crush area between the body and the tank, I have to have a bulkhead too which i guess I'll make out of aluminum as well and vent it outside. I've been looking for parts, it seems no one has a good stock of parts to fabricate fuel cells, some places have this some that but i haven't found a one stop source yet, I mostly need bungs, I guess I'll have to fab everything else.
I am going to try and put the pump in-tank in a sumped area and then run some baffles in a sort of honeycomb pattern to keep slosh to a minumum.
Anybody have any other more tried/proven methods for baffles? i like fuel safes' stuff but good god it's expensive
05-12-2008, 04:13 PM
#6
1/8th seems a little overkill!?
I'm going to use a seperate 3 or 4 gallon (swirl tanks are usually a bit smaller) tank fed by a carburetor fuel pump. The carb pumps are nice to use in the primary tank because of the low amperage draw. For example summit sells a 98 gph electric street pump (sum-g3136-1) that only draws 4 amps at full flown at cost $79. More than enough flow to feed my walbro 255 (which flows about 70 gph) and draws more than 9 amps.
I'm going to use a seperate 3 or 4 gallon (swirl tanks are usually a bit smaller) tank fed by a carburetor fuel pump. The carb pumps are nice to use in the primary tank because of the low amperage draw. For example summit sells a 98 gph electric street pump (sum-g3136-1) that only draws 4 amps at full flown at cost $79. More than enough flow to feed my walbro 255 (which flows about 70 gph) and draws more than 9 amps.
05-12-2008, 04:22 PM
#7
Gtpvette have you considered using the tank foam to prevent the gas from sloshing around?
I think 1/8" is thicker than it needs to be, not sure how weight conscious you are about your project but even the standard after market tanks are less than 1/2 that thickness.
It is a very nice looking custom setup though.
I think 1/8" is thicker than it needs to be, not sure how weight conscious you are about your project but even the standard after market tanks are less than 1/2 that thickness.
It is a very nice looking custom setup though.
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05-12-2008, 07:26 PM
#8
On The Tree
Thread Starter
1/8th might be a little overkill but i think it's worth the small amount of extra weight for safety and structural integrity, a lot of good quality custom tanks seem to be 1/8'' aluminum (perhaps for off-road use but i don't mind overkill). I'd like to keep things as simple as possible so two pumps, tanks, etc., seems like the opposite idea. Also I agree with no foam baffling. I hate dealing with the stuff and you are supposed to replace it every year or two, which is a hassle and a nasty job i imagine. My drag race buddy swore off foam after taking apart too many filters with broken-down foam.
05-12-2008, 07:46 PM
#9
Gtpvette have you considered using the tank foam to prevent the gas from sloshing around?
I think 1/8" is thicker than it needs to be, not sure how weight conscious you are about your project but even the standard after market tanks are less than 1/2 that thickness.
It is a very nice looking custom setup though.
I think 1/8" is thicker than it needs to be, not sure how weight conscious you are about your project but even the standard after market tanks are less than 1/2 that thickness.
It is a very nice looking custom setup though.
Using the foam is part of the plan. 1/8” may be a bit thicker than needed but seeing as these tanks are more like gasoline backpacks for the driver and passenger a little extra meat doesn’t add that much to cost or overall weigh and makes me feel a whole lot safer LOL!.
I also found Harmon Racing Cells today,,, I'm asking for a quote on bladders as it's really what I want. Cooks, they also sell filler necks etc.
05-12-2008, 08:21 PM
#10
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For what is is worth on the materials side of things, when looking at rules for ORR events I found the following:
That was from the SSCC 2008 rulebook.
3. Good quality fuel cells contain a bladder constructed of Nylon or Dacron woven fabric
impregnated and coated with a fuel resistant elastomer.
4. The cell shall be in a container made of at least 0.036-inch steel, 0.059-inch aluminum, or
0.125-inch Marlex, fully surrounding the bladder.
5. Foam internal baffling is required.
impregnated and coated with a fuel resistant elastomer.
4. The cell shall be in a container made of at least 0.036-inch steel, 0.059-inch aluminum, or
0.125-inch Marlex, fully surrounding the bladder.
5. Foam internal baffling is required.
01-08-2009, 09:21 AM
#12
On The Tree
Thread Starter
I know its been a while but thought I'd update this post I found in my links, I ended up purchasing a fuel cell from Summit (a 15gallon RCI cell) and then modifying it. I thought it would fit stock but that wasn't going to happen so I ended up baffling it and then sumping it to get what I wanted, for pictures and a more accurate description see
http://www.ls1gt6.com/enginetrans.html
it starts on the december 1 update, I am very happy with the results
http://www.ls1gt6.com/enginetrans.html
it starts on the december 1 update, I am very happy with the results
01-08-2009, 09:43 AM
#13
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My drag car has an aluminum tank and when I ran gasohol in it, it was not kind to the aluminum. So if you're going to run pump gas or E85, use stainless or a bladder for sure. My prefilter was totally fouled with gelatinous gunk after about 6 gallons and sitting for around a month.
For my Volvo, I made one up out of 16 ga stainless and then added a sump with some baffling around it. The sump is just about an inch deep and will completely cover the sock on the Walbro 255. I went to the local pull a part and got a nice clean gas tank to use the filler bung then got a new gas tank sending unit which includes a fuel level sender, hanger, bung and O-ring. It also has a built in vent which allowed me to use a non-vented gas cap so I don't have to worry about gas spilling out under acceleration or gas fumes. Modified it to fit and now I have an essentially stock system in a nice thick stainless tank. 16 ga is pretty thick for a tank and yes, it's heavy. My prime concern is safety. That thick stainless won't tear or puncture easily.
I also didn't want to use an external pump because I have an Aeromotive Eliminator on the drag car and it is a LOUD bastage inside the car.
Those twin tanks look nice but are you able to seal them off properly? Man are they close to the driver.
For my Volvo, I made one up out of 16 ga stainless and then added a sump with some baffling around it. The sump is just about an inch deep and will completely cover the sock on the Walbro 255. I went to the local pull a part and got a nice clean gas tank to use the filler bung then got a new gas tank sending unit which includes a fuel level sender, hanger, bung and O-ring. It also has a built in vent which allowed me to use a non-vented gas cap so I don't have to worry about gas spilling out under acceleration or gas fumes. Modified it to fit and now I have an essentially stock system in a nice thick stainless tank. 16 ga is pretty thick for a tank and yes, it's heavy. My prime concern is safety. That thick stainless won't tear or puncture easily.
I also didn't want to use an external pump because I have an Aeromotive Eliminator on the drag car and it is a LOUD bastage inside the car.
Those twin tanks look nice but are you able to seal them off properly? Man are they close to the driver.
01-08-2009, 10:07 AM
#14
On The Tree
Thread Starter
I've heard of alcohol and aluminum not being very compatible, which also makes sense with the E85, I am running pump gas although around St. Louis it's 10% ethanol, but hopefully I won't have any problems. I'll keep checking and If need be I guess I'll etch and coat it with something, hopefully won't be an issue though, I'll keep my fingers crossed.
