69 camaro ss vs 02 camaro ss
#1
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69 camaro ss vs 02 camaro ss
what i dont get is this:
1969 Camaro SS 396cid (L78 block)
375hp
415tq
around 3500lbs
runs the 1/4 mile in 14.7 sec @ 98.7mph????
and the
2002 Camaro SS LS1 346cid
325hp rated (but actually 350hp)
375tq
about 3550 lbs
runs the 1/4 mile in about 13.3 sec @ about 105 mph
i dont know maybe it was the cheap bias ply tires of the 60s of too much power but shouldnt the 69 outrun the the 2002 model????
i dont get it but any input is much appreciated thanks
1969 Camaro SS 396cid (L78 block)
375hp
415tq
around 3500lbs
runs the 1/4 mile in 14.7 sec @ 98.7mph????
and the
2002 Camaro SS LS1 346cid
325hp rated (but actually 350hp)
375tq
about 3550 lbs
runs the 1/4 mile in about 13.3 sec @ about 105 mph
i dont know maybe it was the cheap bias ply tires of the 60s of too much power but shouldnt the 69 outrun the the 2002 model????
i dont get it but any input is much appreciated thanks
#2
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the power ratings from back in the day was done differently than now. those motors wouldnt be rated the same by todays standards. think about the technology improvements over the years.
#7
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prior to 1972, chevrolet reported gross horsepower. 1972 and after they reported net horsepower.
pretty interesting article...
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...rticleId=66170
pretty interesting article...
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...rticleId=66170
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#11
^^what pecker lips said . those little 302 chevys were little demons from what my dad tells me. said they did low 14 with like 101-102 traps. would be a good run for a lt1 outta a lil 302.
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I saw a Chevelle with a 396 on the dyno one day, he made 275 RWHP and he wasn't very happy with it. Today we measure HP at the rear wheels, back then they measured HP at the flywheel with no accessories. My 99 T/A makes over 500 RWHP, my 69 Camaro prolly makes 250ish to the wheels if I'm lucky. Dyno numbers don't mean awhole lot to me and I don't compare my T/A to the Camaro, different creatures.
#13
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I saw a Chevelle with a 396 on the dyno one day, he made 275 RWHP and he wasn't very happy with it. Today we measure HP at the rear wheels, back then they measured HP at the flywheel with no accessories. My 99 T/A makes over 500 RWHP, my 69 Camaro prolly makes 250ish to the wheels if I'm lucky. Dyno numbers don't mean awhole lot to me and I don't compare my T/A to the Camaro, different creatures.
well there are 3 396s rated at 325,350 and the L78 at 375
maybe it was the lower one?
how bout all that torque they produced
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http://www.camaros.net/
#16
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The 396 isn't a bad engine but the valve train isn't the best. The biggest CID the first gen Camaro had was 396 but Yenko and several others put 427's in them which I think was a much better engine and 454 is just a bigger bore. A buddy of mine has a 70 GS BB which were known for their torque and the car hauls *** but honestly the LSX is a better platform. His GS runs 6.20's where as my 408 LSX based 4th gen T/A runs 5.6's. I love my 69 but my 99 is and always will be way faster. This web site has alot of great 1st gen info.
http://www.camaros.net/
http://www.camaros.net/
take for example the 6.6 L trans am... they are only a tad bit faster than say a 1995 mustang gt arent they? dont they have a **** load of TQ till about 40-60 mph then they just loose everything..?
#17
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correct me if im wrong but isnt the ls1 engine a "tuned" engine with high compression and a cam with a very very very mild lift?
where as the L78 396 is more in its basic and raw form?
ive heard when u take both engines and replace everything like high compression pistons and huge cams the 1st gen block will make lot more power over the ls1
where as the L78 396 is more in its basic and raw form?
ive heard when u take both engines and replace everything like high compression pistons and huge cams the 1st gen block will make lot more power over the ls1
#19
Dont slouch on the oldschool iron.Comparing these cars is just crazy..the vasts in technology and design = up to the time differances alone. Ex= rear suspension( leaf verse coil/torque arm) Tire compound/quality/width,and even aerodynamic advantages.
In the old big block 396's, which were basically still truck motors by the 1st gen era.When chevy started putting them in Fbodys instead of just Chevelles and big cars..they were still that truck motors, producing monstrous torque ( aka the RAT as compared to the mouse)..in which to help build that torque with the massive stroke found in these new engines...TINY duration cams with mediocre lift is what helped produce that..The story's we all hear and rave about of the good ol days isnt about the stockers,but the guys who like us turned the wrenches and feased out with what they had,substantial combos for the time.If were comparing Fbods it should be corresponding mod to corresponding mod..but the LSx still comes out lookin like a RAT..in a mouses clothing
In the old big block 396's, which were basically still truck motors by the 1st gen era.When chevy started putting them in Fbodys instead of just Chevelles and big cars..they were still that truck motors, producing monstrous torque ( aka the RAT as compared to the mouse)..in which to help build that torque with the massive stroke found in these new engines...TINY duration cams with mediocre lift is what helped produce that..The story's we all hear and rave about of the good ol days isnt about the stockers,but the guys who like us turned the wrenches and feased out with what they had,substantial combos for the time.If were comparing Fbods it should be corresponding mod to corresponding mod..but the LSx still comes out lookin like a RAT..in a mouses clothing
#20
My 427 in my 71 rsz dynoed at around 350rwhp untuned. That sounds a bit low but at 20% loss through the drivetrain would put it at about 437.5 hp at the crank. Its a 427/435hp motor, so Its right on the money. Thats with the stock 11:1 compression.
My 02 SS 345hp package dynoed at 327 at the wheels stock. At 20% loss, thats 408 at the crank.
So if you flip the rating systems for fun,
427 / 350 hp
346 / 408 hp.
so you see how the old big blocks are dogs, even the 427's
My 02 SS 345hp package dynoed at 327 at the wheels stock. At 20% loss, thats 408 at the crank.
So if you flip the rating systems for fun,
427 / 350 hp
346 / 408 hp.
so you see how the old big blocks are dogs, even the 427's