LT1-LT4 Modifications 1993-97 Gen II Small Block V8

First drive with the new cam and t56

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Old 05-15-2016, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Casey96SS
Are you running the original OBD2 PCM or did you switch over to OBD1?

Email tune with data logging through Solomon is a pretty good way to go. He'll give you a base tune to start with and then fine tune it based on your data logs. Ultimately, probably not as good as a competent dyno tune though. (Good luck finding someone around here that knows what they are doing with an LTx.)

What part of IL are you from BTW?
original obd2. I've got a PCMFORLESS tune now. I don't know if theres any LTx tuners in IL or not I doubt it.

I'm from Pekin BTW. You?
Old 05-15-2016, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Jaxem
My setup is pretty similar to yours and i went with 4.10's...1st and 2nd are pretty darn short, but man is it fun. It feels like a power mod when you're getting off the line so much faster, but you'll be shifting a lot. (get a good shifter)
Originally Posted by ******
Outlaw..

3:23 gears with the T56 is really to high a gear. Slipping the clutch won't do it well.

4:10 is a great gear. At 80 MPH with a 27" tire my RPM is just under 2k.

On the street its a 4 speed. Fwy 5th and over 65 6th

When I did my A4 to T56 swap I had 3:73 and thought they would be good. They were "OK" but the 4:10 are perfect, IMHO.
Originally Posted by KW Baraka
If his car were a B-body, I'd say 4.10 gears.....hands down.

But lighter cars (F and Y-bodies) get along fine with less gear than out cars; so to that end, he may get along OK with the 3.73's.

What I do know, however.....is if it were my car, I'd most likely go with 4.10's.

KW
Originally Posted by ******
Yeah KW the F & Y bodys are lighter. That's why I said 3:73 would be "OK"...but outside the weight diffrence between the F & B bdy the trans gear ratio is the same as my T56 and if running a 27 " tire I would go 4:10.

If running a Shorter tire on the F-body, 3:73 starts to get better. With a .75 5th and .50 6th on the T56 the 4:10's work well with either gear set

I run a 26" MT ET at the track and really like the way the car launches with the 4:10's but yeah I have a few pounds on the F-body :-)
Some real good opinions here guys, I'll most likely go with the 4.10s unless I can be convinced otherwise by then. But keep the opinions and info coming.
Old 05-15-2016, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by ahritchie
No problem, you're welcome! If you already knew the issues were un-tuned related, why make a thread about it? Waiting a "few weeks" as you originally suggested and still driving it would most likely cause MORE issues; foul your plugs, potentially clog your cat if you have one, wash down the cylinders with excess gas, ect. Glad you took my "smart ***" advice and got a tune ordered! Any reputable tuner will make small changes and adjustments free of charge, they can simply email you updates and you can make the changes with a laptop or mail in the PCM again...
I guess I made the thread to see what other peoples opinions were on the issues. My thought were confirmed.

After my tune I still have a very strong gas smell, my timing is way off, but it does run better. I'll get into a new post here in a second about a few issues I'm still having. PCMFORLESS did the tune on a core computer if you're wondering.
Old 05-15-2016, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Ls1Ryan2002
Good luck with the car, after I got my cam it was a whole lot of fun.
Thanks! I'm hoping going from a bolt on A4 car to a cammed M6 wont be to big of a change it seems like it wants to rock.

Originally Posted by 94_LT1_TransAm
IDK, my car was the exactly the same as the OP before my tune. It idled really low, kinda stumbled when taking off from a stop, and ran good when at highway speed. Not saying your wrong or anything because it could very well be something else , but I think its due to not being tuned. After my tune, the car really woke up!
The car seems to idle a lot better now, haven't had a chance to drive it with the tune yet maybe sometime this week.

Originally Posted by ACE1252
Can't be exactly the same....your OBDI and he is OBDII. I'm OBDII as well(same model year '96).

I do remember the stock tune throwing a misfire code every now and again. My CC503 tune does have that code disabled....due to the cam change of course.
Why would the cam cause a misfire code. running untuned didn't set a misfire code? I'm curious to hear more of this.
Old 05-15-2016, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by ACE1252
I'm assuming that you kept your injectors stock.

It's been years since I tried it, but if I recall correctly the CC503's driveability will be just fine on the stock tune.

One of the things I did when chasing my slight bucking off idle was to put the stock tune in it with only the injector settings changed(as I have 30# SVOs in it after the cam swap).

I don't recall any driveability issues on the stock tune. No idle problems, no bogging, etc. Was it making as much peak power? Most likely not, but I'm not so sure the tune is your problem.

The one thing I most certainly noticed(on both tunes) is that the torque production was lower on the bottom end of the rev range with the CC503, but from 3500 up the power is excellent...well exceeding what a stock LS would feel like.

So...I'm going to be a naysayer here and make a prediction that a tune will not fix your issue. I hope I'm wrong and my memory is failing me, but I don't recall any of the issues you are having on the stock tune when trying it on my CC503.

As a matter of fact, I'm running the stock ignition map if I recall correctly...with a slightly altered VE MAP where I lowered the VE around 10-15% from 3500 down and increased it around 5-10% above 3500.

So...you may have some troubleshooting ahead of you. However, when you get it sorted out, the CC503 is a good cam for stock heads. I've really enjoyed mine. Just make sure you open up the exhaust. I was running stock exhaust manifolds(after the cam swap to save money) for a couple of years then went to long tubes. I picked up 5mph and dropped 0.4 in the 1/8mile alone with just the long tubes. Picked up an easy 30hp.

TBH I'm hoping you're wrong. lol But I want someone to come over and check my rockers. I've only done this like twice now and I'm not very confident in my zero lash and preload.

If the issues I'm having aren't tune related then the rockers are the only thing it could be.

But it definitely runs smoother now. I use that word loosely.
Old 05-15-2016, 06:12 PM
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Ok so here's where I'm at. I don't have any check engine lights. There's still a strong gas smell, not as bad though.

Stock injectors, LT headers, ORY pipe, no egr.

I was watching my engine data earlier and my car is pulling anywhere from -26* of timing to -40* of timing, the -40 being under light load. I don't have an LT4 knock module so I am wondering if this is why? I'm not hearing any pinging so I'm assuming it is from false knock from the RRs. Anyone have any ideas, to be 100% sure, or know of a legit way to get ahold of a LT4 KM?

Sorry for all the post in a row, didn't want to try a post everything at once.
Old 05-16-2016, 12:00 AM
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Originally Posted by The Outlaw Kid
Why would the cam cause a misfire code. running untuned didn't set a misfire code? I'm curious to hear more of this.
The timing of the cam has changed relative to the crank. Under certain driving conditions, the PCM will flag it. With that code enabled, it might take 3 or 4 days for it to set the SES light for a misfire, but it will set it.

If you are getting false knock, the knock counts should be going crazy. Does the PCM data show that number constantly incrementing during driving(normal or WOT)?

Rockers not lashed right could cause headaches. I prefer to set my rockers with the intake off. That way I can see the lifters and know where they are relative to the cam lobe position(so plunger compression does not fool me). Make sure you get someone to double check for you if your not sure.

Last edited by ACE1252; 05-16-2016 at 12:07 AM.
Old 05-16-2016, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by The Outlaw Kid

After my tune I still have a very strong gas smell, my timing is way off, but it does run better. I'll get into a new post here in a second about a few issues I'm still having. PCMFORLESS did the tune on a core computer if you're wondering.
well assuming you don't have a gas leak (really confirm you don't as fire will happen if driving and it hits hot exhaust)

My $.02 on PCM4Less....well not one I would use. I have always used Ed Wright. He has sold his shop/dyno but IIRC he still does mail order. Your mods are not much so a "good" mail order should work well. Certainly hands on Dyno is better to squeeze out every last HP.

you say your timing is "way off"...how do you know this...data log or?

cam installed right?

LT4 KM deals better with the harmonic range RR have. you seeing 40 degrees of timing being pulled...holly shiat. "something" not happy in motor. If you didn't lash the valves right, that will cause all kinds of drive-ability, motor running issues and would certainly cause timing to be pulled when you are on the gas

the 3:23 gears you can't lug the car, especially with a tune that may not be right or stock tune & T56 with the A4 tune.
Old 05-16-2016, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by ACE1252
Can't be exactly the same....your OBDI and he is OBDII. I'm OBDII as well(same model year '96).

I do remember the stock tune throwing a misfire code every now and again. My CC503 tune does have that code disabled....due to the cam change of course.
Oh sorry lol, I meant the driveability characteristics was the same.
Old 05-16-2016, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by ACE1252
The timing of the cam has changed relative to the crank. Under certain driving conditions, the PCM will flag it. With that code enabled, it might take 3 or 4 days for it to set the SES light for a misfire, but it will set it.
It should still throw a pending code, while the PCM continulsy monitors the engine misfires right? If that is the case then the light will not set but the code will be there. It has not set on mine. With the stock tune or the new tune.

Originally Posted by ACE1252
If you are getting false knock, the knock counts should be going crazy. Does the PCM data show that number constantly incrementing during driving(normal or WOT)?
I got a scanner program from my buddy, because mine wasn't showing knock counts. But his won't either. So back to the hunt. Any suggestions?

Originally Posted by ACE1252
Rockers not lashed right could cause headaches. I prefer to set my rockers with the intake off. That way I can see the lifters and know where they are relative to the cam lobe position(so plunger compression does not fool me). Make sure you get someone to double check for you if your not sure.
Unless its still tune related, then I must not have set them properly. I'm trying to get someone over to look at them. Not sure how long that will take.

Originally Posted by ******
well assuming you don't have a gas leak (really confirm you don't as fire will happen if driving and it hits hot exhaust)
About the only place it could be is in the quick disconnects on the rail, I was very careful to not kink the lines. Unless something happened to the injectors, while sitting. I never pulled them off of the rails just out of the intake.

Originally Posted by ******
My $.02 on PCM4Less....well not one I would use. I have always used Ed Wright. He has sold his shop/dyno but IIRC he still does mail order. Your mods are not much so a "good" mail order should work well. Certainly hands on Dyno is better to squeeze out every last HP.
This is something that I did some research on. The good out weighed the bad on PCM4Less mail order tune. Especially since my mods are fairly common. I doubt a dyno tune would be worth it on a cam only car. If end up spraying sometime in the next year then it is a must to me.

Originally Posted by ******
you say your timing is "way off"...how do you know this...data log or?
Scanner. Tried 2 of them just to be sure.

Originally Posted by ******
cam installed right?
Everything seemed to go together right, and chain was installed dot to dot.

Originally Posted by ******
LT4 KM deals better with the harmonic range RR have. you seeing 40 degrees of timing being pulled...holly shiat. "something" not happy in motor. If you didn't lash the valves right, that will cause all kinds of drive-ability, motor running issues and would certainly cause timing to be pulled when you are on the gas
is an LT4 KM necessary? I'm hoping that the rockers aren't set right. It pulls the same amount of timing on both tunes. So I'm doubting that it is tune related.

Originally Posted by ******
the 3:23 gears you can't lug the car, especially with a tune that may not be right or stock tune & T56 with the A4 tune.
Haven't been able to drive it with new tune. Don't really want to until I get the timing sorted. But by "can't lug the car" you mean I need to give it more gas?
Old 05-16-2016, 08:45 PM
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GM felt it necessary to change the knock module with LT4. From my understanding it was due to the roller rockers. As such, I would not run roller rockers without the LT4 knock module. I run a LT4 KM in my car.

Wished I'd bought 2 back in the day for my other PCM...so I would not have to swap it out when using the other PCM...but it is rare that I do that.

Having said that though, I think there are people who have no trouble with the LT1 module and rockers either.

Last edited by ACE1252; 05-16-2016 at 08:57 PM.



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