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Everything is bought somewhere. Either you buy the whole car done or your buying parts for your car.
Agreed. I probably fall into both camps. I buy my daily drivers and mostly have them serviced by others. I prefer to build my track cars but have to buy parts and engines. I probably admire the scratch build guys the most, but even those guys have to buy some parts.
If you have the money buy it, if not, take your time and build it the way you want it, like I did. It took me over 3 years and it was worth the wait! I'm rewarded with over 600+ to the wheels on a Mustang Dyno!
At this point if I was going to do it again, I'd buy one already built and then take it apart and put it back together to check everything. Way cheaper than starting from stock. There's so many built or supercharged LT1s around here for like $6000-9000.
I'd not really consider factory stock cars in this convo, as the relevance is limited.
It's more of a conversation of the guy who builds a 10 or 9 second car with his own hands and tools in his garage vs. the well-heeled fella who bought a car, talked with a shop, spec'd a combo, then paid the shop to put it together and tune it.
It all comes down to this. The only folks I see building their own stuff are the ones for whom money and a budget of some sort is a consideration. If you pick out 2 guys who have racing/street machines as a hobby, the one who makes 400k per year will spend the extra 10k in labor to have his car built by a shop whether he actually has the skills and know-how to build it himself or not. Because his time is very valuable and better spent doing something other than wrenching. The other one who makes 45k per year will do the work himself because he has to in order to stay within his budget constraints and his time is not vastly more valuable doing something else.
I have done extensive work on my car and many others over the years, and have acquired the knowledge and skills to take on most tasks myself. But if I can easily afford to pay a good shop to do the dirty work, I most certainly will because wrenching isn't my trade or strongest suit.
And no shame in buying a car that is already built, either. If the build is done right and is solid, you can save a huge sum buying a unit that is already built and sorted out if you know the build and who did it extensively.
As long as you're not toxic to the hobby, I don't think it really matters either way. And from what I've noticed, this argument is really one sided. Most of the time, guys that pay a shop to build their stuff don't talk **** about the guys that build it themselves.
I'd not really consider factory stock cars in this convo, as the relevance is limited.
It's more of a conversation of the guy who builds a 10 or 9 second car with his own hands and tools in his garage vs. the well-heeled fella who bought a car, talked with a shop, spec'd a combo, then paid the shop to put it together and tune it.
It all comes down to this. The only folks I see building their own stuff are the ones for whom money and a budget of some sort is a consideration. If you pick out 2 guys who have racing/street machines as a hobby, the one who makes 400k per year will spend the extra 10k in labor to have his car built by a shop whether he actually has the skills and know-how to build it himself or not. Because his time is very valuable and better spent doing something other than wrenching. The other one who makes 45k per year will do the work himself because he has to in order to stay within his budget constraints and his time is not vastly more valuable doing something else.
I have done extensive work on my car and many others over the years, and have acquired the knowledge and skills to take on most tasks myself. But if I can easily afford to pay a good shop to do the dirty work, I most certainly will because wrenching isn't my trade or strongest suit.
And no shame in buying a car that is already built, either. If the build is done right and is solid, you can save a huge sum buying a unit that is already built and sorted out if you know the build and who did it extensively.
Maybe I should have been more clear. But you summed it up pretty well. I agree with you 100%
But I feel as if I was the $400k guy I would still find it necessary to build my own cars. Cars are a passion of mine though. But where I sit now financially, it was only smart to build my car piece by piece to keep cost down. Technically if I'd have a shop to do the work I would be well over $25k. But even with the cost of the car included and doing the work myself I'm under $15k
And from what I've noticed, this argument is really one sided. Most of the time, guys that pay a shop to build their stuff don't talk **** about the guys that build it themselves.
I beg to differ on that last part. Guys who have shops build their cars always make the point that if they win then , "you should've took it to the shop and had it built, then maybe you'd win".
Then in the same manner, the guys that have shops build their cars lose then, "well my builder must have screwed something up. It's not like I built it or anything".
I think it's pretty even sided IMO. It seems most of the built guys understand the bought side based on the comments in this thread.
Bought is the financially smarter choice, my only issue is when people who choose to buy already built cars try to give advice and tips about things that may be incorrect.
Nothing wrong with buying instead of building, just shouldn't give advice for things you have never done if someone else did all the research, parts spec'ing, and building on your car.
And from what I've noticed, this argument is really one sided. Most of the time, guys that pay a shop to build their stuff don't talk **** about the guys that build it themselves.
Maybe not as much now? That **** was rampant in the past. There were a lot of fly by night shops open back in the day where the owners didn't know any more than the customers.
Built, you know your car 100%, every nut, bolt, sealant, creak, rattle, you know where it's coming from. If you built it yourself, you have a better chance of having it on the road more often than if you have someone else build it, because when someone else built it and you have a hiccup, you are going to take t back to the shop to diagnose, rather than knowing if it's a big deal and you can get to it Saturday. It also depends on goals, my goal is drive it, race it, no cash involved, take it apart, change it, play with it more.
When you were a kid and got a lego set, did you assemble it per the instructions and then put it on the shelf, say a pirate ship, and put it next to your assembled per instructions x wing fighter on the shelf? Or did you build it per the instructions then smash your x wing fighter up to make the ultimate flying pirate ship with lazers? I had the pirate ship with lazers, jungle warrior submarine space cowboy millionaire.
On New Years, did your wife hand you a glass/crystal fragile champagne glass like the rest of the guests or did she hand you a plastic one, or perhaps a princess Sophia sippy cup? Do you own anything that is "dryclean only" or do you always somehow end up filthy because you fixed something in your nice clothes?
If you can call a car "finished" then bought is for you. If your car is an ever evolving tinker toy set that you want to constantly take apart and put back together, built is your style. Everyone is different, can't knock either person, I would not be able to have cars sitting in a museum under a cover only for a sunny Sunday, if I had an all original 67 z28 you bet I'd be drifting a round about in the rain at 8000 rpm.
Last edited by bufmatmuslepants; 01-04-2017 at 05:29 AM.
I use to love to build my own because for one, the detail and I know it was done right, but in the other hand, you will never get back what you put into it and I have seen some "bought" cars that seemed very well built for way less than you could of built it yourself. I just got tired of sending my car to so called professional shops and it came back duct taped and safety wired to hold parts in place, Hell I even taught myself to paint because of the same reason. Some want a performance vehicle but have no clue on how to build or what parts to use so they purchase one already built, nothing wrong with that..but like said, if you dont know about performance parts then dont talk about it or give advice, just like one guy said he was pushing 600 HP on his 94 Z because it had headers and it was a Z28!!
Built, you know your car 100%, every nut, bolt, sealant, creak, rattle, you know where it's coming from. If you built it yourself, you have a better chance of having it on the road more often than if you have someone else build it, because when someone else built it and you have a hiccup, you are going to take t back to the shop to diagnose, rather than knowing if it's a big deal and you can get to it Saturday. It also depends on goals, my goal is drive it, race it, no cash involved, take it apart, change it, play with it more.
When you were a kid and got a lego set, did you assemble it per the instructions and then put it on the shelf, say a pirate ship, and put it next to your assembled per instructions x wing fighter on the shelf? Or did you build it per the instructions then smash your x wing fighter up to make the ultimate flying pirate ship with lazers? I had the pirate ship with lazers, jungle warrior submarine space cowboy millionaire.
On New Years, did your wife hand you a glass/crystal fragile champagne glass like the rest of the guests or did she hand you a plastic one, or perhaps a princess Sophia sippy cup? Do you own anything that is "dryclean only" or do you always somehow end up filthy because you fixed something in your nice clothes?
If you can call a car "finished" then bought is for you. If your car is an ever evolving tinker toy set that you want to constantly take apart and put back together, built is your style. Everyone is different, can't knock either person, I would not be able to have cars sitting in a museum under a cover only for a sunny Sunday, if I had an all original 67 z28 you bet I'd be drifting a round about in the rain at 8000 rpm.
ahahahah This is scary how accurately it describes myself
Built, you know your car 100%, every nut, bolt, sealant, creak, rattle, you know where it's coming from. If you built it yourself, you have a better chance of having it on the road more often than if you have someone else build it, because when someone else built it and you have a hiccup, you are going to take t back to the shop to diagnose, rather than knowing if it's a big deal and you can get to it Saturday. It also depends on goals, my goal is drive it, race it, no cash involved, take it apart, change it, play with it more.
When you were a kid and got a lego set, did you assemble it per the instructions and then put it on the shelf, say a pirate ship, and put it next to your assembled per instructions x wing fighter on the shelf? Or did you build it per the instructions then smash your x wing fighter up to make the ultimate flying pirate ship with lazers? I had the pirate ship with lazers, jungle warrior submarine space cowboy millionaire.
On New Years, did your wife hand you a glass/crystal fragile champagne glass like the rest of the guests or did she hand you a plastic one, or perhaps a princess Sophia sippy cup? Do you own anything that is "dryclean only" or do you always somehow end up filthy because you fixed something in your nice clothes?
If you can call a car "finished" then bought is for you. If your car is an ever evolving tinker toy set that you want to constantly take apart and put back together, built is your style. Everyone is different, can't knock either person, I would not be able to have cars sitting in a museum under a cover only for a sunny Sunday, if I had an all original 67 z28 you bet I'd be drifting a round about in the rain at 8000 rpm.
You are a funny young man. I dont knock a person either for there decision.
Originally Posted by moehorsepower
I use to love to build my own because for one, the detail and I know it was done right, but in the other hand, you will never get back what you put into it and I have seen some "bought" cars that seemed very well built for way less than you could of built it yourself. I just got tired of sending my car to so called professional shops and it came back duct taped and safety wired to hold parts in place, Hell I even taught myself to paint because of the same reason. Some want a performance vehicle but have no clue on how to build or what parts to use so they purchase one already built, nothing wrong with that..but like said, if you dont know about performance parts then dont talk about it or give advice, just like one guy said he was pushing 600 HP on his 94 Z because it had headers and it was a Z28!!
I strongly agree with the statement: "you will never get back what you put into it and I have seen some "bought" cars that seemed very well built for way less than you could of built it yourself". I have seen some 25.3 F body rollers for literally a steal because they need the money bad. So sometimes buying just makes the most sense. Given the situation.....
I think there's 2 definitions of bought here, 1 is you have a car then pay someone else to build it, the other is you buy someone's abandoned project for a steal because modded cars are worth less than stock.
Built since I can't afford bought.
Built because it has taught me a lot about cars.
Built because I give a built car more credit than a bought car (regarsledd of dumb "stance" mods)
If I had the money I would do a combination of both. "Build" on a more expensive car that I "bought". Basically "bolt on" parts for a C6Z.
For me, it depends on what is being done. I don't mess with tuning or rebuilding a trans (yet). I plan to build my next motor as a learning experience and since it's something I've wanted to do.
But resources always plays a factor too. I have a 2 car garage with air tools and basic hand tools. I can accomplish a decent amount. But I draw the line at pulling motors. I have replaced a clutch on jackstands with hand tools. I also have a friend that runs a local speed shop. So I can borrow specialty tools/occupy a shop lift for a day on the weekend if needed, which I greatly appreciate and weld aluminum for me. And I have a flux core 110V welder at home which can do OK for small projects under 1/4" thick.
If someone KNOWS how to do the work and has done things in the past, but now has money to have someone else do it....I can't really fault them for it. Would I rather someone replace a clutch for me if my car needed it and I had the money? Sure...it's a straight forward/standard procedure. Now, would I want to pay someone to custom fabricate a larger aluminum Power Steering reservoir for my 95 Camaro? No, because I like designing things like this and "making it my own". I'll cut them templates and have my friend weld it up.
I think every hotrodder should build at least 1 car themselves and learn. Right now though I would not hesitate buying an already built abandoned LT1 project as I feel I know enough about these cars that I could troubleshoot and fix it. I don't think I could ever drop a car off at a shop for mods though, I just don't trust shops. It's so hard for any shop these days to stay in business just building cars, most need a day job or some other income. Too many people I know have had to bounce cars around shop to shop as they go out of business and use the customers up front money to finish other customers cars. I have yet in my life to ever have to drop a car off at a shop to be fixed, I've been fortunate enough to always be able to do it myself. I will admit I hate fixing cars, just replacing wear and tear things like brake lines and alternators, but I LOVE improving cars.
I will still build my own motors but something like changing out a complete wiring harness, Nope, just because Im to **** about things, just like routing the wires from my MSD box, simple, but no I have to route it one way, stand back then route it another way on and on now a 30 minute job takes me 2 hours. My motor, I took a jewelers file and filed down every sharp edge on the pistons, rods, timing gears ect to prevent stress cracks, probably completely unnecessary but thats me...
This hobby is expensive no matter which way you accomplish your build, I think just about anyone will agree on that.
It is very true that building your own stuff can and will teach you a lot more about your car and your combo than you would know by dropping the car off at a shop, talking with a few folks, spec'ing a combo, and then having them build it while you drop by every couple days or weeks to check on progress. Most shops I've been around do involve the owner pretty intimately with the build process, at least on builds that involve major driveline or engine work.
I think the main issue is time. I know quite a few folks who used to do everything themselves and have completed multiple successful builds in their own garages. However as their careers in other fields progressed and they ended up with more money than time (rather than vice versa), they chose to have a shop they knew and trusted do the lion's share of the work. So even though they are capable of turning wrenches, it's impractical for them to spend two to eight hours a day in the garage for weeks or months on end. Does this make them any less a gearhead or take anything away from their builds? I wouldn't say so.
Most people do these crazy horsepower builds because they want to end up driving, racing and enjoying them, not because they particularly want to spend endless hours under a car.
As for myself, I can and will do "most" of my own work. However, I do not have a garage with a nice lift, pro grade air compressor and plenty of excess space. I'm fortunate enough that a good friend of mine does have a shop in his backyard with that equipment and he lets me use it. I can and will do driveline R&R, heads/cam jobs and all major and minor service and maintenance there. I will still farm out such work as rear end and transmission rebuilds and shortblock assembly because I do not have any experience and therefore little skill in those areas.
I have a feeling that something like this is how most people here in the LT1 forums operate.
It's definitely the best feeling when you have done all the work yourself. Like this build that I just finished and running, everything was done and installed in my garage, on my back on the floor, bloody knuckles, bruises and bumps on my head, fuel in my face, etc, you name it!
The only part I did not do was assembling the short block which requires special tolerances and clearances which I left that to the pros. Other than that, I BUILT and put together this baby!
12-30-2016, 03:55 PM
