Sladester2

iTrader: (1)

I'm having difficulty deciding between these clutches.. there is a pretty big price difference. I was just wondering if anyone has some advice on these two or have had one or both.

SNLPerformance

iTrader: (15)

We'll start by what all is done to your car/what power is it making and how do you drive it?

Comparing those two are a bit apples to chicken nuggets... Our Level 2 is a full faced Kevlar, their 3+ is a full faced carbon semi-metallic style friction. Our rating on the 2 is 550 rwhp, their rating on the 3+ is 967 crank horsepower... that's a HUGE difference.

You can always call us at 817-750-2000 and we'll go over these things in detail.

Sladester2

iTrader: (1)

Thanks wow I doubt I would need the 3+ I have a bolt on car lol, occasional drag strip days.. street tires as of now. stock 140k mile clutch and its still working, just plan on replacing it before I get any problems. I do plan on it becoming more of a strip car though someday

SNLPerformance

iTrader: (15)

Save some money and get the Monster 2, you will be absolutely fine with that.

We have many distributors and dealers throughout the US, or, you can call us directly.

Rise of the Phoenix

iTrader: (27)

I have the Monster stage 3 clutch kit with Tick master cylinder and speed bleeder on my WS6 and I absolutely love it. Once the clutch was broke in, it's hard to tell a difference between it and when the car had the stock clutch setup. One thing to keep in mind too is future performance upgrades you plan to install. The Monster stage 3 is good to 700 rwhp, and probably more if you ask me, so that would suite you well if you ever plan to do a heads/cam/intake swap or even throw some nitrous at it, or upgrade to a blower/turbo setup. Either way you go, Monster is good.

SNLPerformance

iTrader: (15)

Thank you for the kind words!

LS6G35.Swap

Steve,

I am doing an LS6 swap with a cam on a g35 coupe (track prepped, yet 3480 lbs on a 1/3 tank). I track it monthly, but it's also my daily driver (25 mile highway trip to work).
My T56 is a Tick Stage 2 rebuilt out of a 02 Camaro SS

Do I go with a Stage 2 or 3? 28lb flywheel or 18?

Thanks!

SNLPerformance

iTrader: (15)

When you say "track prepped" what type of racing are you referencing? Just want to make sure we're on the same page.

LS6G35.Swap

Do you mean if it's dragstrip vs. road racing vs. autoX?
Road Racing. Usually we do 5 25 min track sessions (+ 1 open race session) at Homestead Miami Speedway or Palm Beach International Raceway.

I want to keep good DD drivability, but I thought it was important to mention the track part, as it means the car will get more punishment than your typical DD.
Pretty much trying to confirm that I should still go with a stage 2 with 28lb flywheel, as per my research.

(OP: Im sorry for the question in your thread)

SNLPerformance

iTrader: (15)

Let's take this to email so we don't continue to bump this thread and take away from the OP.

Steve@monsterclutches.com

We can recommend a few things for you, shoot me an email.

HioSSilver

iTrader: (8)

Go as light as you can afford to.......a 28lb flywheel is ******* junk. Don't touch it. If you can get the clutch/fly combo to less than 30lb. She'll liven up for real good then.

SNLPerformance

iTrader: (15)

That is terrible advice for a daily driven car.

Keeping the combo lighter than stock is one thing, overall weight of 30 lbs or less is damn hard to deal with for the average person daily driving it.

HioSSilver

iTrader: (8)

This is a 17lb clutch/fly combo. .....in traffic. ....ac on......sprinkling rain. It also has a unsprung hub and sintered discs. Does it look hard to deal with?


faceplated t56:

what most overlook is that your typical oe mustang clutch/fly combo has weighed 40lb~ over the last 30 years or so. Anybody have trouble driving one of those?

A stock honda clutch can weigh about 31lb.......are you telling me a ls v8 has less tq at idle than a honda? Cause it would have to according to you "hard to deal with" theory.

SNLPerformance

iTrader: (15)

What I'm telling you is that the average person doesn't want to deal with the incredibly lightweight clutch assembly. The average tuner can't tune incredibly lightweight clutch assemblies. Which means that an incredibly lightweight clutch isn't going to suite most.

Further, from the tens of thousands of units I've sold I've got quite a bit of experience for the masses. I've built all kinds of units, driven everything I've built, and have the knowledge base to back up what I say. If everyone wanted a clutch that weight 30 lbs the mass of aftermarket options would be there, but they do not because it's a pain in the *** to drive, in traffic, daily. Hell, the average factory pressure plate is around 30lbs by itself.

As far as your Honda comment, the MOI necessary to make a 2200lbs car easy to drive isn't the same as what is necessary to make a 3000lbs+ car easy to drive. That's apples to oranges comparisons.

I too have had a lightweight setup with a faceplated and dog geared T56... while I drove it daily for a while it was terrible for some that wanted to drive my car, very few were okay with it.

For your enjoyment here is a 22.5lbs unit I built/tested for a C5 -
It was a bitch to drive daily, but cool as hell.

All this said, I'm not giving you theory - I've spent a lot of money researching this very topic and finding what the masses approve of. Can some of us enjoy a clutch like that? Sure. Do most of the people have the want to drive something like that? No.

SNLPerformance

iTrader: (15)

FWIW, my 2004 H/C GTO with the lightweight flywheel went slower with the lighter setup... with a more conventional weight setup the car went 11.28@123. Why? Lack of gearing, power, and weight wasn't optimal for a lightweight clutch...

HioSSilver

iTrader: (8)

I call bs on your gto goin faster with heavier c/f.......unless it was minimal.....why.....cause I went faster with a lighter clutch/fly. Maybe you did not optimize one vs the other of which you insinuated in your post which makes your comparison not very valid.

Fact is if you promoted that 22.5 lb clutch you would sell them. They are not hard to tune.......all you do is turn off the throttle cracker and give idle speed a 100 rpm bump. But your to busy trying to comply with a bullshit theory that a heavier clutch is more driveable so you can sell what you already have made. It's simple that way for you.

For anyone that is interested in the moi theory take a weight in your hand and spin it back and forth with your wrist. Now get a heavier weight and do the same. It's pretty easy to see which one will spin up quicker/easier. ........now think of it at the speeds the engine turns. Thats a holy **** moment then.


the honda clutch weight was from a 2012 civic. They weigh closer to 3000lb and still have 1/2 the cylinders and a lighter crank which we are not even taking into account. Still like I said the factory mustang clutch/fly is around 40lb. The pressure plates that weighs 30lb is the gm stuff..... and there is no real reason for that. It also puts you at a disadvantage performance wise right of the bat.

I personally think optimal would be about 25lb fir the various conditions a street car see's.

SNLPerformance

iTrader: (15)

LOL, you don't have to agree with me... you do realize I built this company from nothing, it's not a matter of selling what I have made, you're not the only one that has brought this up. When you start a clutch company or start to work for one and listen to/deal with the masses that use what you sell you can give me some feedback on what everyone wants. Until then it's your opinion that the lightest is the best and it's my past research and customers experiences that has me pointing people to what fits them best, and that's not a 30lbs clutch.

As for your MOI theory... you forgot to mention that the weights you're referencing needs to be the same physical size but heavier, and that the weight needs to be distributed evenly between both pieces you test. Your test can be skewed heavily by where the weight is in the object, hence how MOI is calculated.

I think that's enough crapping in this thread.

HioSSilver

iTrader: (8)

Oh I don't agree with you, we've chatted on the phone about this before.......but we both know a lighter clutched car will accelerate faster. Sure a heavy slick tired drag car might like a heavier clutch. But most of these guys are out there chasing and racing mustangs and more times than not from a roll. Selling them a 50-60lb clutch/fly is putting them at a disadvantage when the other car comes with a lighter(40lb) clutch/fly from the factory. Ignoring that fact and trying to blame it on driveabilty is just wrong.

If you would come up with something in the 25lb~ range with a disc made of a street worthy material( something a little nicer than sintered iron) it would be a hit. I've already got 2 people to buy spec x trims because of there weight and they love them......and I'm not a fan of spec.

I do think your company produces a good clutch......it just need to be lighter. Atleast it needs to be lighter for some of us that know the difference.

Hide sight being 20/20 I wish I would've put my 5.5 tilton clutch into kit form for guys back when I first did it....07 ish.

SNLPerformance

iTrader: (15)

You're making blanket statements based on your opinion... not everyone is trying to squeeze every little bit out of their combos throwing drivability to the wind.

But let's just take out the masses and clarify a few things...

Based off your posts you're saying the following (correct me if I'm wrong) -

• All 50lbs clutches are going to drive the same.
• All 50lbs clutches are going to perform the same from an acceleration standpoint (not worrying about frictions or plate loads).
• A 5.5" Tilton Clutch along with a faceplated T56 is on par with a synchro'd T56 and 50lbs generic clutch - drivability speaking.

And while you're answering that we'll throw a little math in the equation based on bearing load alone (IE how much force is required to depress the diaphragm spring and release the disc pack) among a few other things. For the record I've made and sell billet 8.5" multi discs, as well as tested and sell 7.25" units and have all data on a 5.5" unit (never made one because of the lack of interest by the majority).

Bearing load on a LS7 is around 400lbs at the diaphragm spring, overall plate load is in the 2500lbs range and the coefficient of friction on the organic used is in the neighborhood of .25. That said, on paper, the LS7 clutch will hold 524 ftlbs of torque.

My Level 2 has a bearing load of about 400lbs at the diaphragm spring, overall plate load of 2800 (give or take, I'm not putting the exact number on here ) and the coefficient of friction is in the neighborhood of .32. That said, on paper, the Level 2 will hold 752 ftlbs of torque. <--- yes we underrate our clutches, no I won't change the rating on our website, no I won't recommend this clutch in a car that makes 700 rwhp.

To get the 5.5" twin disc to hold over 700 ftlbs of torque the bearing load is 600lbs, yes, 50% stiffer than a LS7 clutch, add an aftermarket master and you'll be around 80% stiffer than stock... 80% is a sh*tload to the average person... using two sintered frictions that average coefficient is around .38 and a plate load of 2500lbs gives you a holding capacity of 729 ftlbs of torque.

So, with that information you're trying to tell me that the 5.5" clutch, with more aggressive frictions, less MOI for stability in takeoff, and a whopping 50% more pedal effort is going to drive the same or so as a Level 2 or even a LS7? Seriously?

Now, I'm not saying you can't dial back the plate load on the 5.5" setup. After all, your car is making 250 hp/tq less than what this thing is rated to. But, you still are not going to get the same drivability as what he's asking for. Let alone the accelerated wear you'll get when the average person is trying to slip that clutch in rush hour traffic over the course of an hour... a 5.5" clutch doesn't dissipate heat like that very well FYI.

I enjoy technical debates such as these, I apologize to the OP for the thread hijack.

SNLPerformance

iTrader: (15)

Forgot to address this.

I'll wait for your answer from my previous post before we discuss a flywheel option that is a mere 3lbs lighter than what I offer now.

As far as frictions, I offer sintered iron in the Level 4, 6, and 11" Race Iron version... all of those are not recommended for consistent street use. The other clutches I offer are brass/copper impregnated organic (level 1), segmented pure Kevlar (level 2), and ceramic matrix (level 3, 5, and 11" Ceramics)...

I do appreciate the kind words towards what we make.