Finished the drill mod today. Afterthoughts inside
07-19-2008, 10:20 PM
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Finished the drill mod today. Afterthoughts inside Was having some trouble shifting into 3rd at the local street races. Decided to tackle the drill mod this weekend. The car was built by a shop, so i am not what you would call mechanically inclined.
Took me an entire afternoon (4-5 hours) to remove the master cylinder, perform drill mod, and reinstall. Reinstalling the master was a BITCH. Really could have used a friend, especially when inserting the U brace that pokes through the firewall.
Then it was time to bleed the clutch. No big deal right??? Wrong! While trying to get a socket on the bleeder valve I dropped a 7/16" into the bell housing. Removed the starter motor, and used a spring magnet to retrieve the socket. Tried for another hour or so to get a socket on the valve, NO LUCK. So I drove to Orielly's and bought the mityvac.
Let me say, that even if i never use it again it was $50 well spent. Anyhow, had a friend help me bleed the clutch. Took about 30 minutes, and then reinstalling the heat shield, dash panels, and starter motor took another 1/2 hour.
Installuniversity.com was really helpful, but who ever decided that this was a 1-3 hour install is a liar!!! Anyway, was really nice to work on my own car. Have to say that this is by far the most extensive thing that i have done myself. Had done some minor stuff: installed a few window motors, headlight motor, turn signal sockets, and i did install the window swtich for the N2O system).
Took me an entire afternoon (4-5 hours) to remove the master cylinder, perform drill mod, and reinstall. Reinstalling the master was a BITCH. Really could have used a friend, especially when inserting the U brace that pokes through the firewall.
Then it was time to bleed the clutch. No big deal right??? Wrong! While trying to get a socket on the bleeder valve I dropped a 7/16" into the bell housing. Removed the starter motor, and used a spring magnet to retrieve the socket. Tried for another hour or so to get a socket on the valve, NO LUCK. So I drove to Orielly's and bought the mityvac.
Let me say, that even if i never use it again it was $50 well spent. Anyhow, had a friend help me bleed the clutch. Took about 30 minutes, and then reinstalling the heat shield, dash panels, and starter motor took another 1/2 hour.
Installuniversity.com was really helpful, but who ever decided that this was a 1-3 hour install is a liar!!! Anyway, was really nice to work on my own car. Have to say that this is by far the most extensive thing that i have done myself. Had done some minor stuff: installed a few window motors, headlight motor, turn signal sockets, and i did install the window swtich for the N2O system).
07-19-2008, 10:27 PM
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Congrats on doing some work on the car. It always feels good when you get done, but it's sometimes a real pain in the *** while you're doing it. Keep it up, get that extra pride of doing it yourself, save a bunch of money, know more about your car, and have more to talk about with other gear heads! 
I just changed my master out today, so I can empathize with your plight. I used a Motive Products pressure bleeder, and it worked out fairly well. They're also on the order of about $50.
On a side note, I can't believe you managed to drop the socket in the bell. I didn't think there was even enough room for that to happen on the stock bell (or any of the aftermarket ones I'm familiar with for that matter)!
I just changed my master out today, so I can empathize with your plight. I used a Motive Products pressure bleeder, and it worked out fairly well. They're also on the order of about $50.
On a side note, I can't believe you managed to drop the socket in the bell. I didn't think there was even enough room for that to happen on the stock bell (or any of the aftermarket ones I'm familiar with for that matter)!
07-20-2008, 06:53 PM
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On a side note, which way do i twist the master cylinder rod to adjust the clutch so that it engages higher? Also, how many revolutions is a good place to start?
07-21-2008, 01:44 PM
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It works because the
1) the system is inelastic and maintains a constant volume
2) air will compresses and expands while liquid stays at a constant density.
The system (the master cylinder, steel line, and hose) is an inelastic system that maintains a constant volume. Imagine sucking on a glass soda bottle versus a plastic soda bottle. The plastic will concave because it is elastic. The glass wont because it is rigid and inelastic.
So when you provide suction to a closed inelastic system you create a vacum. A vacum exists when the pressure inside a closed system is less than atmospheric pressure.
When the system is subjected to suction, molecules that can expand do so and are displaced.
(again, imagine the glass soda bottle is 1/2 full, and you suck on the top of it. the soda stays at the bottom, and a portion of the air is displaced.)
The brake fluid remains at a constant density. (it is essentailly impossible to compress fluid, as opposed to gas which is easily compressable). Some of the air molecules are displaced out of the system because they are able to expand (i.e. fewer air molecules take up the same volume).
Now, upon releasing the suction (and ending the vacum) you introduce fluid in place of the displaced air molecules (via force of gravity through the resevoire). The remaining air molecules once again compress to atmospherice pressure, but since there is fewer of them they take up less space. The space that was once filled by the now displaced air molecules is filled with liquid brake fluid.
This process is repeated until there is virtually no air left in the system.
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07-21-2008, 05:53 PM
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It's basically a ratchet without the ratcheting mechanism. Typically, they have longer handles. The purpose is to make a stronger tool that gives you more leverage so you can torque things much harder. The reason it works so well in this application is because the lack of a ratcheting mechanism makes the tool much more low-profile. That's where the extra room comes in.
I've found the same to be true when trying to get to the bleeder, but I use a 3/8" breaker. I don't yet have a 1/4", but I might try it here in the future.
Here's a picture of a ratchet and a breaker bar:
I've found the same to be true when trying to get to the bleeder, but I use a 3/8" breaker. I don't yet have a 1/4", but I might try it here in the future.
Here's a picture of a ratchet and a breaker bar:
07-21-2008, 06:23 PM
#9
It creates a vacum. Essentially, a vacum is a force that sucks the contents of a closed system towards an open port (in this case the resevoir).
It works because the
1) the system is inelastic and maintains a constant volume
2) air will compresses and expands while liquid stays at a constant density.
The system (the master cylinder, steel line, and hose) is an inelastic system that maintains a constant volume. Imagine sucking on a glass soda bottle versus a plastic soda bottle. The plastic will concave because it is elastic. The glass wont because it is rigid and inelastic.
So when you provide suction to a closed inelastic system you create a vacum. A vacum exists when the pressure inside a closed system is less than atmospheric pressure.
When the system is subjected to suction, molecules that can expand do so and are displaced.
(again, imagine the glass soda bottle is 1/2 full, and you suck on the top of it. the soda stays at the bottom, and a portion of the air is displaced.)
The brake fluid remains at a constant density. (it is essentailly impossible to compress fluid, as opposed to gas which is easily compressable). Some of the air molecules are displaced out of the system because they are able to expand (i.e. fewer air molecules take up the same volume).
Now, upon releasing the suction (and ending the vacum) you introduce fluid in place of the displaced air molecules (via force of gravity through the resevoire). The remaining air molecules once again compress to atmospherice pressure, but since there is fewer of them they take up less space. The space that was once filled by the now displaced air molecules is filled with liquid brake fluid.
This process is repeated until there is virtually no air left in the system.
It works because the
1) the system is inelastic and maintains a constant volume
2) air will compresses and expands while liquid stays at a constant density.
The system (the master cylinder, steel line, and hose) is an inelastic system that maintains a constant volume. Imagine sucking on a glass soda bottle versus a plastic soda bottle. The plastic will concave because it is elastic. The glass wont because it is rigid and inelastic.
So when you provide suction to a closed inelastic system you create a vacum. A vacum exists when the pressure inside a closed system is less than atmospheric pressure.
When the system is subjected to suction, molecules that can expand do so and are displaced.
(again, imagine the glass soda bottle is 1/2 full, and you suck on the top of it. the soda stays at the bottom, and a portion of the air is displaced.)
The brake fluid remains at a constant density. (it is essentailly impossible to compress fluid, as opposed to gas which is easily compressable). Some of the air molecules are displaced out of the system because they are able to expand (i.e. fewer air molecules take up the same volume).
Now, upon releasing the suction (and ending the vacum) you introduce fluid in place of the displaced air molecules (via force of gravity through the resevoire). The remaining air molecules once again compress to atmospherice pressure, but since there is fewer of them they take up less space. The space that was once filled by the now displaced air molecules is filled with liquid brake fluid.
This process is repeated until there is virtually no air left in the system.
07-21-2008, 11:06 PM
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Yea, so the drill mod didn't work as well as I hoped. Is defenately better, but clutch still feels spungy. Am going to flush the system tomorrow, and bleed it again. Damn I hope this works, otherwise its TH400 for me.
07-23-2008, 12:44 PM
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Well, did bleeding it again help any?? Is swapping out your manual for a th400 your ONLY option??? What about using an adj. master cylinder and/or a new tranny from sixspeedsinc?? It seems to me that there has to be a fix to your problem besides converting to a th-400.
07-23-2008, 03:31 PM
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The transmission was rebuilt less than 3000 miles ago from a reputable builder. Upon install, the car got all new GM hydrolics and a new ls7 clutch.
Started getting spungy after i sprayed the car on the dyno last week. So, I performed the drill mod and bled the clutch. Didn't help. Then I flushed the hydro system, and insulated the hose going from master to slave with heat reflective tape. I also zip tied the line as far away from the headers as possible.
Essentially the car has 1 good shift in it. If i start in 1st, then 1st-2nd is good but the next shift (2nd-3rd) is spungy and i have to hesitate before it will go into gear. The same thing happens between 3rd-4th except it is worse and it takes longer to get into gear. This only occurs at high RPM shifts during racing.
Why TH400 you ask? Because i am tired of having a 550rwhp car that i can't race. I have considered replacing the master with a mcleod, but i just don't understand how the Brand new master from GM could be the problem.
Is it possible that the ls7 clutch can't handle the spray? The car was fine on motor before I used the 100 shot. Now it is sticky on spray and on motor. Could the extra power have messed up the pressure plate?
I may take it back to the shop that did the clutch/hydro install and see if they can do anything about it. They will probably try and charge me full price though and i can't afford to be spending any more money on this car at the moment. Such a shame, because it runs soooo well aside from the issue.
07-23-2008, 03:37 PM
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Holy ****, I feel your pain. I rebuilt my engine over 18 months ago... my first engine rebuild ever. I was terrified that my car would explode. Here we are 18 months later, and I have had non-stop drivetrain issues (clutches, BELL-*******-HOUSINGS, transmission, driveshaft, rear axle.. you name it), and the engine runs like a freakin' CHAMP! I say the above sentence (a little more colorfully) every single day... until about a week ago when I finally got all that fixed.
There's nothing more frustrating than having a strong-running car with stupid bullshit like this causing you to hate driving it. I totally empathize, dude.
There's nothing more frustrating than having a strong-running car with stupid bullshit like this causing you to hate driving it. I totally empathize, dude.
07-23-2008, 10:21 PM
#17
I got all mine done in about 30min.... I took the pin holding the clutch line out while everything was in the car and disconnected it from the trans.. Just a thought. More than likely I lucked out.
07-24-2008, 06:59 AM
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after reading around some, it seems like your clutch may not be disengaging all the way. You can slip it out but not back in. Check the springs? I'm trying to figure it out too because I have the same problem, but I haven't changed clutches/hydrolics/or transmission yet.
