Marine's father sues church for cheering son's death...
10-26-2007, 08:19 AM
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Marine's father sues church for cheering son's death... It's about time somebody stood up to these sick loonies:
http://www.eveningsun.com/ci_7277523?source=most_viewed
Father: Funeral protest made him sick
By ALEX DOMINGUEZ
Associated Press Writer
Article Launched: 10/25/2007 10:24:57 AM EDT
BALTIMORE -- The father of a Marine killed in Iraq took the stand in his invasion of privacy suit against a fundamentalist church that pickets soldiers' funerals, saying protesters carrying signs at his son's burial made him sick to his stomach.
Albert Snyder said Wednesday he had hoped for a private funeral for his son, Lance Cpl. Matthew Snyder.
"They turned this funeral into a media circus and they wanted to hurt my family," Snyder testified. "They wanted their message heard and they didn't care who they stepped over. My son should have been buried with dignity, not with a bunch of clowns outside."
Snyder is suing the Westboro Baptist church, whose members have picketed the funerals of military personnel killed in Iraq and Afghanistan, claiming the deaths are punishment for the country's tolerance of homosexuality. The York resident is seeking unspecified monetary damages in the case for invasion of privacy and intent to inflect emotional distress as a result of the Topeka, Kan., church's protest at his son's funeral in Westminster in March 2006.
The church's protests have inspired several state laws and a federal law about funeral protests, but the Maryland suit is believed to be the first filed by the family of a fallen serviceman.
Asked Wednesday about a sign that read "Thank God for dead soldiers," Snyder said he thinks about it daily.
"I see that sign when I lay in bed," Snyder said.
Asked about statements issued by the group that his son was raised to support the "Roman Catholic monstrosity" and then sent to fight for the "United States of Sodomy," Snyder said "they have no right to do this to people they didn't know."
During cross-examination, defense attorney Jonathan Katz focused on obituaries and death notices and questioned Snyder on whether they said the funeral services were private. Snyder replied that the notices said friends and family were welcome, but admitted that he did not know all of the 500 or so people who attended.
The case tests the limits of the First Amendment right to free speech.
U.S. District Richard Bennett instructed jurors at the start of testimony Tuesday that the First Amendment protection of free speech has limits, including vulgar, offensive and shocking statements. Bennett said the jurors must decide "whether the defendant's actions would be highly offensive to a reasonable person, whether they were extreme and outrageous, and whether these actions were so offensive and shocking as to not be entitled to First Amendment protection."
Church members said they are motivated by the fear of God and their need to warn America about its moral decay, rather than a desire to hurt anyone.
Katz told jurors Tuesday the protests took place 1,000 feet away from St. John Catholic Church, where the funeral was held, down a hill and out of sight and hearing from participants.
Snyder said American military personnel are in Iraq fighting for freedom of speech "they're not fighting for hate speech." One photo showing a child holding a sign at the funeral protest was particularly disturbing, the father said.
"I pray for their children. Their children need help. To be brought up with that kind of hatred," Snyder said.
"My God is loving God," Snyder said, adding later "I don't look for hatred in the Bible."
The church's founder and pastor, Fred Phelps, took the stand after Snyder and prompted a strong admonition from Bennett when the pastor said he had not considered whether children would see a sign carried by protesters with the words "Semper Fi ****" and two stick figures that appear to be engaged in sodomy.
"No, it's an irrelevancy," Phelps said.
Bennett then interjected sharply.
"Just answer the question, sir. Don't determine what's relevant or not relevant. You just answer the question," Bennett said. Phelps said he chose to use the term "***" in the group's signs because it comes from scripture but could also have used Sodomite or dog. When asked by Katz why the group made a "Semper Fi ****" sign, Phelps said it was in response to the need for a warning to the country "that your wicked ways are going to be your doom shortly."
http://www.eveningsun.com/ci_7277523?source=most_viewed
Father: Funeral protest made him sick
By ALEX DOMINGUEZ
Associated Press Writer
Article Launched: 10/25/2007 10:24:57 AM EDT
BALTIMORE -- The father of a Marine killed in Iraq took the stand in his invasion of privacy suit against a fundamentalist church that pickets soldiers' funerals, saying protesters carrying signs at his son's burial made him sick to his stomach.
Albert Snyder said Wednesday he had hoped for a private funeral for his son, Lance Cpl. Matthew Snyder.
"They turned this funeral into a media circus and they wanted to hurt my family," Snyder testified. "They wanted their message heard and they didn't care who they stepped over. My son should have been buried with dignity, not with a bunch of clowns outside."
Snyder is suing the Westboro Baptist church, whose members have picketed the funerals of military personnel killed in Iraq and Afghanistan, claiming the deaths are punishment for the country's tolerance of homosexuality. The York resident is seeking unspecified monetary damages in the case for invasion of privacy and intent to inflect emotional distress as a result of the Topeka, Kan., church's protest at his son's funeral in Westminster in March 2006.
The church's protests have inspired several state laws and a federal law about funeral protests, but the Maryland suit is believed to be the first filed by the family of a fallen serviceman.
Asked Wednesday about a sign that read "Thank God for dead soldiers," Snyder said he thinks about it daily.
"I see that sign when I lay in bed," Snyder said.
Asked about statements issued by the group that his son was raised to support the "Roman Catholic monstrosity" and then sent to fight for the "United States of Sodomy," Snyder said "they have no right to do this to people they didn't know."
During cross-examination, defense attorney Jonathan Katz focused on obituaries and death notices and questioned Snyder on whether they said the funeral services were private. Snyder replied that the notices said friends and family were welcome, but admitted that he did not know all of the 500 or so people who attended.
The case tests the limits of the First Amendment right to free speech.
U.S. District Richard Bennett instructed jurors at the start of testimony Tuesday that the First Amendment protection of free speech has limits, including vulgar, offensive and shocking statements. Bennett said the jurors must decide "whether the defendant's actions would be highly offensive to a reasonable person, whether they were extreme and outrageous, and whether these actions were so offensive and shocking as to not be entitled to First Amendment protection."
Church members said they are motivated by the fear of God and their need to warn America about its moral decay, rather than a desire to hurt anyone.
Katz told jurors Tuesday the protests took place 1,000 feet away from St. John Catholic Church, where the funeral was held, down a hill and out of sight and hearing from participants.
Snyder said American military personnel are in Iraq fighting for freedom of speech "they're not fighting for hate speech." One photo showing a child holding a sign at the funeral protest was particularly disturbing, the father said.
"I pray for their children. Their children need help. To be brought up with that kind of hatred," Snyder said.
"My God is loving God," Snyder said, adding later "I don't look for hatred in the Bible."
The church's founder and pastor, Fred Phelps, took the stand after Snyder and prompted a strong admonition from Bennett when the pastor said he had not considered whether children would see a sign carried by protesters with the words "Semper Fi ****" and two stick figures that appear to be engaged in sodomy.
"No, it's an irrelevancy," Phelps said.
Bennett then interjected sharply.
"Just answer the question, sir. Don't determine what's relevant or not relevant. You just answer the question," Bennett said. Phelps said he chose to use the term "***" in the group's signs because it comes from scripture but could also have used Sodomite or dog. When asked by Katz why the group made a "Semper Fi ****" sign, Phelps said it was in response to the need for a warning to the country "that your wicked ways are going to be your doom shortly."
10-26-2007, 09:48 AM
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That church ought to be ejected from whatever convention it's part of,although it might be independent. I sometimes go to a Baptist church and it honors vets and active duty.
Those turds doing those things at funerals are ,IMO, not Baptist or Christian.
I'm a vet and feel nothing but loathing for people like that.
Those turds doing those things at funerals are ,IMO, not Baptist or Christian.
I'm a vet and feel nothing but loathing for people like that.
10-30-2007, 11:54 AM
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Words cannot even express how awful that is. A father who outlived his son is awful, but his son fighting and dying for our country is also awful. On top of that, this marine should be laid to rest with dignity and honor. Meanwhile, people like these who have no respect for our military and absolutly take for granted what out military has done for us are ruining this should be peaceful burial of a United States Marine. Thats tragic.
10-30-2007, 12:07 PM
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I hope That stupid puritan innocent witch burning church is burnt to the ground. That is def not a house of God. They should go join David Koresh down here in Waco effin Nutbags. I hope the guys father gets enough out of the case to send his great great grandkids through college with SUV's. May he lay in peace.
10-30-2007, 07:32 PM
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When my Rakkasan (101st Airborne, 3BCT) brother was laid to rest while we were on our last deployment that group came out to protest his funeral. The Golden Rakkasans (all of the former Rakkasans that want to stay in touch) were there. Seven of the protesters got arrested after they started a fight and the Goldens beat the crap out of them.
This group is just insane.
This group is just insane.
10-30-2007, 07:50 PM
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those ******* ******** are not members of a church, it's a damn cult. I saw some of the stupid **** that they were saying about the troops and it just enraged me. If I saw them doing that at a funeral I would make sure that they would be leaving in an ambulance.
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10-30-2007, 08:35 PM
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those liberal A&^holes, that is so wrong!! they need to realise those guys are dying so they can do their little protests, they need to go see how a tirant runs a country maybe they will appreciate what they have. they should be hit with some nerve agent and see how they like that!!!
10-30-2007, 11:55 PM
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10-31-2007, 12:34 AM
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I'm glad that states are passing laws that limit how close they can be to the actual procession. Granted I'd be glad if they never showed up to another one again, way too many super extremes in politics to allow that to happen. My dads still AD and rides with the Patriot Guard, so he's seen the change in their distances. They even have cops show up to make SURE they don't get any closer and arrest those that do. Nutbags...
10-31-2007, 02:07 PM
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that is so hard to try and comprehend why someone would ever think about that ****. i cant believe that church is still standing. may those **** suckers burn in hell.
10-31-2007, 03:44 PM
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From wikipedia:
claims that WBC consists of "about 150 members". BBC Two claims there are 71 members. A compilation of the names of Phelps' grandchildren and great-grand-children, combined with his nine "loyal" children and their spouses, though, numbers 90.
Eastside Baptist Church (a traditional Baptist church), consisted of the Hockenbargers (whose offspring later married into the Phelps clan), George Stutzman, Chris Davis (who also married into the Phelps clan) and Theresa Davis (whose relationship, if any, to Chris Davis is unknown). Around 2000, another family (Steve and Luci Drain, along with daughters Lauren, Taylor and Faith and son Boaz) joined the group after Steve Drain, while taping a documentary on religious groups, interviewed several Westboro members and came to accept their theology. The Drains are not related to either the Phelpses or the Hockenbargers, nor to anyone else from the original group.
Phelps does not permit Westboro members to marry persons outside the church. As relatively few individuals have joined Westboro, there have been at least two marriages between the Phelps and Hockenbarger clans, resulting in some members having dual genealogical relationships (ex. married the brother or sister of their father or mother). In the documentary The Most Hated Family in America, the young girls in the church express a disinterest in getting married, because "that's not what we are about" and "we're living in the last of the last days, times are very short".
Eastside Baptist Church (a traditional Baptist church), consisted of the Hockenbargers (whose offspring later married into the Phelps clan), George Stutzman, Chris Davis (who also married into the Phelps clan) and Theresa Davis (whose relationship, if any, to Chris Davis is unknown). Around 2000, another family (Steve and Luci Drain, along with daughters Lauren, Taylor and Faith and son Boaz) joined the group after Steve Drain, while taping a documentary on religious groups, interviewed several Westboro members and came to accept their theology. The Drains are not related to either the Phelpses or the Hockenbargers, nor to anyone else from the original group.
Phelps does not permit Westboro members to marry persons outside the church. As relatively few individuals have joined Westboro, there have been at least two marriages between the Phelps and Hockenbarger clans, resulting in some members having dual genealogical relationships (ex. married the brother or sister of their father or mother). In the documentary The Most Hated Family in America, the young girls in the church express a disinterest in getting married, because "that's not what we are about" and "we're living in the last of the last days, times are very short".
10-31-2007, 06:23 PM
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By ALEX DOMINGUEZ, Associated Press Writer
57 minutes ago
BALTIMORE - A grieving father won a nearly $11 million verdict Wednesday against a fundamentalist Kansas church that pickets military funerals out of a belief that the war in Iraq is a punishment for the nation's tolerance of homosexuality.
Albert Snyder of York, Pa., sued the Westboro Baptist Church for unspecified damages after members demonstrated at the March 2006 funeral of his son, Lance Cpl. Matthew Snyder, who was killed in Iraq.
The jury first awarded $2.9 million in compensatory damages. It returned in the afternoon with its decision to award $6 million in punitive damages for invasion of privacy and $2 million for causing emotional distress.
Snyder's attorney, Craig Trebilcock, had urged jurors to determine an amount "that says don't do this in Maryland again. Do not bring your circus of hate to Maryland again."
Church members routinely picket funerals of military personnel killed in Iraq and Afghanistan, carrying signs such as "Thank God for dead soldiers" and "God hates ****."
A number of states have passed laws regarding funeral protests, and Congress has passed a law prohibiting such protests at federal cemeteries. But the Maryland lawsuit is believed to be the first filed by the family of a fallen serviceman.
The church and three of its leaders — the Rev. Fred Phelps and his two daughters, Shirley Phelps-Roper and Rebecca Phelps-Davis, 46 — were found liable for invasion of privacy and intent to inflict emotional distress.
Even the size of the award for compensating damages "far exceeds the net worth of the defendants," according to financial statements filed with the court, U.S. District Judge Richard Bennett noted.
Snyder claimed the protests intruded upon what should have been a private ceremony and sullied his memory of the event.
The church members testified they are following their religious beliefs by spreading the message that soldiers are dying because the nation is too tolerant of homosexuality.
Their attorneys maintained in closing arguments Tuesday that the burial was a public event and that even abhorrent points of view are protected by the First Amendment, which guarantees freedom of speech and religion.
Earlier, church members staged a demonstration outside the federal courthouse. Church founder Fred Phelps held a sign reading "God is your enemy," while Shirley Phelps-Roper stood on an American flag and carried a sign that read "God hates *** enablers." Members of the group sang "God Hates America" to the tune of "God Bless America."
Snyder sobbed when he heard the verdict, while members of the church greeted the news with tightlipped smiles.
57 minutes ago
BALTIMORE - A grieving father won a nearly $11 million verdict Wednesday against a fundamentalist Kansas church that pickets military funerals out of a belief that the war in Iraq is a punishment for the nation's tolerance of homosexuality.
Albert Snyder of York, Pa., sued the Westboro Baptist Church for unspecified damages after members demonstrated at the March 2006 funeral of his son, Lance Cpl. Matthew Snyder, who was killed in Iraq.
The jury first awarded $2.9 million in compensatory damages. It returned in the afternoon with its decision to award $6 million in punitive damages for invasion of privacy and $2 million for causing emotional distress.
Snyder's attorney, Craig Trebilcock, had urged jurors to determine an amount "that says don't do this in Maryland again. Do not bring your circus of hate to Maryland again."
Church members routinely picket funerals of military personnel killed in Iraq and Afghanistan, carrying signs such as "Thank God for dead soldiers" and "God hates ****."
A number of states have passed laws regarding funeral protests, and Congress has passed a law prohibiting such protests at federal cemeteries. But the Maryland lawsuit is believed to be the first filed by the family of a fallen serviceman.
The church and three of its leaders — the Rev. Fred Phelps and his two daughters, Shirley Phelps-Roper and Rebecca Phelps-Davis, 46 — were found liable for invasion of privacy and intent to inflict emotional distress.
Even the size of the award for compensating damages "far exceeds the net worth of the defendants," according to financial statements filed with the court, U.S. District Judge Richard Bennett noted.
Snyder claimed the protests intruded upon what should have been a private ceremony and sullied his memory of the event.
The church members testified they are following their religious beliefs by spreading the message that soldiers are dying because the nation is too tolerant of homosexuality.
Their attorneys maintained in closing arguments Tuesday that the burial was a public event and that even abhorrent points of view are protected by the First Amendment, which guarantees freedom of speech and religion.
Earlier, church members staged a demonstration outside the federal courthouse. Church founder Fred Phelps held a sign reading "God is your enemy," while Shirley Phelps-Roper stood on an American flag and carried a sign that read "God hates *** enablers." Members of the group sang "God Hates America" to the tune of "God Bless America."
Snyder sobbed when he heard the verdict, while members of the church greeted the news with tightlipped smiles.
11-01-2007, 10:42 AM
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I am normally pretty chill and not prone to get angry, but if they did that to my son (which I do not have any) they would have ended with ACP in the ***.
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