surfinyahoodi

Hi all, I'm new to the forums but I have read plenty of posts in the last few years. Lots of great info on this site.

So I'm going to look at a 2002 WS6 T-Top, 6 speed, for sale and I have a few questions. About the car: 29k miles, looks great inside and out, original owner who claims everything works and no accidents, etc. He told me the only items replaced on the car were the battery and tires recently. The car is in southern California.

Any advice on what to look out for if I consider purchasing this beast? It almost sounds too good to be true.

Thanks in advance!

Nathan C

See if you can take it to a local mechanic to check it out. Sounds like a great car if the price is fair.

ULTIMATEORANGESS

iTrader: (4)

it sounds nice. check it over thoroughly.

BrntWS6

iTrader: (7)

There's still low mile one owner cars to be found for sure. How much is he asking?

Firebrian

At approx 30K miles it could be priced at anything from $12K to $15K....though I think $14K to $15K is the sweet spot. A lot has to do with just how well kept it was (maintenance up to date, fluids changed per owners manual including coolant, differential, trans, brake, clutch, etc.). If they can't give you a quick answer on fluid changes, odds are they didn't do some of them. Check the clutch and coolant for yourself on your inspection. Black clutch fluid isn't a great sign of owner attention to detail. Coolant should be a nice vibrant green, orange, etc. A cloudly, mirky mix of browns is older fluid. Often times, orig owners unload just as a number of things are coming due....such as tires. Hopefully, they put on a quality set of tires rather than something so-so. The owners choice of tires will hint at their overall plan on maintaining the car. 29k on one set of tires would be some fairly easy driving. Maybe those were the 2nd set which would indicate more aggressive driving. A real nice looking and driving car with 30K miles and <$15K is a decent deal....$14K is real sweet. At least in SoCal you don't have much to worry about winter driving damage and undercarriage rust. But sun exposure to the paint and dash is a risk factor. Also to look for:

AC system leaks (ie recharges without replacing leaking components)....figure $500 min to replace a leaky compressor. Make sure you ask, "have you ever recharged the system...have any AC parts been replaced?"
Drive-train oil leaks
Listen to that M6 very carefully in various conditions including neutral. There are numerous posts around here about checking out trans, clutch, engine noises. There are some detailed tests on how to fully check the clutch and trans too. Check here or google them. If I were buying an M6 today I'd want a very quiet trans/clutch. That may be asking for a lot but those are out there.
Be aware of the cold valve train/piston slap these cars often have. Better if you don't have to listen to it. Ensure you get to hear the car start up cold after having sat overnight.
Check for noises/whines from trans and rear end.
WS6 common problem include worn out head lamp, window, and antennae motors...also peeling/flaking/pitting chrome wheels.
TTops leak water?
Roof paint bubbling? This is a common problem for cars kept out doors or that saw lots of summer car shows.
How did they maintain the car's finish? Are there lots of lines in the paint? Lots of stone chips on the front, hood, and windshield?
Original paperwork and documentation all still intact?
While these cars have mostly non-metal panels, the quarters and rockers are metal. You can still check them for paint thickness with a magnet or a rap of your knuckles. The first one of these I ever considered buying had a touched up right quarter panel....plain as day with an $8 Year One "spot rot" gauge.

If it's local to you I agree that a mechanic inspection of the underside is important. Could be time for brake pads.

RockinWs6

Check the throttle stop on throttle body for wear................................sit in the car and look in the side mirrors at the tops of the quarter panels, see if they look wavy. Also great check if the owner will allow it is drop the auto trans pan and look at the catch magnet on the pan, if its full of metal you know it was run hard.


Ask me how I know to look for these things..................

I bought a 99 ta with 28k on it that was looked like new but was beat to hell. It was drag raced ALOT. It had all of the above PLUS number 7 piston failed.

surfinyahoodi

He was asking for $18k but went down to $17k. I checked out the car yesterday before reading any of these replies but I knew the basics to look for. Headlight and window motors seem perfectly fine. Paint is in excellent condition, maybe 2 or 3 very small chips on the front bumper and one small chip on the lower end of the windshield. Otherwise the car is flawless inside and out. It has been garaged according to the seller and I believe it. Couldn't even find any swirl marks on the paint.

As for the rest of the car: I test drove the car for a good 30 minutes or so, streets and freeway. I know these transmissions aren't known to be buttery smooth, but the gearbox felt good to me. I don't recall any noises from the gearbox or any whine from the rear end. He started the engine cold, said it hadn't been started in a week or so. Started right up and idled smooth, no disturbing noises at all. All exterior/interior lights work, antennae goes up and down no problem. The only things ever replaced on the car are battery and tires - which are Nittos with a few hundred miles on them. I couldn't get a good look at the fluids as it was already dark by the time I got there to check out the car.

Judging solely based on the way it drove, sounded, and handled, I'm very confident it was well taken care of and never abused. Few plasticky sounding squeaks inside but that's to be expected from a 12 year old car I guess. The seller says he has all the original paperwork since day 1. I will be checking out the car again next Saturday and if all seems well I'll take the plunge and purchase it. I will definitely check fluids and under the car for leaks/wear/hoses.

Overall the condition of the car amazed me beyond my expectations. He's firm on $17k, what do you all think? Blue book says $15,800.

By the way, thanks for all the great information and quick replies. PS - I was not a fan of that skip shift thing.

MikeWS6

Imo that is a high price even though it has low miles. I bought my ws6 back in 09 for $12,500 with 19,000 mile on it..

Firebrian

At $17K I think the owner is at the very top of the market for what these have been selling for. It's a "fair" price for an extremely nice 1 owner car that has had "exceptional" care and maintenance, assuming that's all true. Was the guy able to tell you that ALL the fluids were changed regularly and per the owner's manual? It the car is that nice then 29K could still be every bit as mechanically sound and cosmetically nice as a car with say 15K miles. You looked at that car in only 30 minutes. You can be sure there are other flaws in that paint that you won't see until you wash, wax and detail the car for the first time yourself. I can spot more flaws in my car's paint in the garage with overhead/underside lighting than I can out in the bright sun.

While you might not be as lucky as MikeWS6 in finding a WS6 with 19K miles at $12,500 I think you can find one similar to this one for $14K to $16K. In the last 2 months I saw what appeared to be a very nice white automatic 2001 with 32K miles for $12K. So they do pop up from time to time. If it were me I'd hold out until the owner comes down a bit more. Nitto 555's would have been a decent choice for replacement tires. Would have been nice if you could have seen the old tires. I recently replaced my orig tires due to age (not wear or cracks) and have kept them to show the next guy down the road how the car was driven for the first 16K miles. What color is the car? The skip shift bothered me a lot when I first got my M6. But I took out the $20 jumper after 2 years because when I'm just leisurely cruising around (most of the time) I find the 1-4 shift fairly convenient. I hardly even realize it's there now.

There's a 15K mile 2002 for $15K from a dealer on Autotrader. While most owners are asking at least several thousand higher than this, the majority of those aren't selling either. There's also a $2K to $4K difference in price between a low mileage '98-'99 vs a low mileage '01-'02. The price guides range a 29K 2002 from $13,325 (clean retail NADA Northeast) to excellent at KBB $14,857. NADA has some issues because the same car listed under their "classic" heading runs $4K to $8K higher....which is a bit ridiculous. Those guys don't even know that ram air is standard with a Firehawk.

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/Used+Cars/cars+under+18000/Pontiac/Firebird/East+Lyme+CT-06333?endYear=2002&engineCode=8CLDR&engineCodes=8C LDR&listingType=used&listingTypes=used&makeCode1=P ONT&maxMileage=30000&maxPrice=18000&mmt=[PONT[FBIRD[]][]]&modelCode1=FBIRD&photosOnlyActual=true&pricesOnly =true&searchRadius=0&showcaseListingId=0&showcaseO wnerId=0&sortBy=derivedpriceASC&startYear=2001&Log =0

madmike9396

iTrader: (29)

take him 15k and smack it in his face. tell him just because the car only has 30k miles doesn't meant it still isn't 12yrs old.

surfinyahoodi

I agree that he is asking a premium price for this car. But from what I have seen so far, it seems to be in premium condition as well. He says the original tires were replaced due to age and not wear, and he seems like an honest guy. I will be looking at the car again this Saturday and I'll bring it to a local shop to have a pre-purchase inspection done to get a second opinion.

I did test drive the car for an entire 30 minutes, and looked over the car and chatted with the guy for at least an hour or so. From every angle this car looks like it just rolled off the lot. And I'm confident the paint is original, that was the first thing I checked. Plus I got to see the car during sunset and as it was starting to get dark, so if there were any imperfections they would have been more noticeable as there was no direct sunlight on the car. The car is silver. And the engine compartment was incredibly clean, no smudges or dust anywhere.

He's firm on the price and at this point, the only way I can get the price down is if I can find any needed maintenance items during the inspection in a few days. Otherwise, I think he's locked in at $17k. The question is, is a premium price worth paying for a premium example of a not-so-common car?

madmike9396

iTrader: (29)

you got to make that decision

American Psycho

That car is a great find, and price. Finding any f-body that has not been beaten on or molested with aftermarket parts is a rare find these days. If I was looking for a WS.6; I would buy that in a heartbeat.

NDFORSPD

Are there any maintenance records that come with the car or original documentation? The price does seem slightly high, but as mentioned these cars especially with one owner are fairly hard to find. I would say it is a good deal IF this is exactly the options/colors etc you were set on

surfinyahoodi

To be honest I'm not crazy about the color, but it's something I can live with. The rest of the car inside and out is exactly what I want. The owner says he has all the original documents even down to the window stickers that came on the car. I'll be looking over the documents and maintenance records while I have the car inspected this Saturday. I've been trying to find flaws about this car but I just can't seem to find any. Although the price is a bit high I know I may not come across such a nice low mileage WS6 locally for a while. Saturday is judgment day.

Firebrian

Most original owners who still have these cars tend to have the window stickers, original registrations and DMV documents, SLP options list (if applicable), loan/origination/trade-in/dealer docs from orig purchase, etc. Some even have the original build sheet paperwork showing all the options on the car.

An original owner who cared a lot about the car would keep the engine bay detailed and even waxed. Of course all that could also have been done in the last month. There's no way to know. Any seller should know to have their entire car freshly detailed.

The owner claims only tires and battery replaced for the first 29K miles. While certainly possible that's probably not the norm for that many miles over 12 years. Also original then would be the fuel and air filters....and probably has the orig coolant, rear diff and trans fluids as well.

In frequently reviewing Ebay and Autotrader offerings, I'm continually surprised by how many 1 owner, very low mileage '98-'02 F bodies are still out there. A lot more than you'd think. And vast majority of these cars require cash buyers since banks don't value them anywhere near their true market value. Good luck with your final inspection on Saturday.

surfinyahoodi

Thanks for all the guidance guys. I am the proud new owner of an 02 WS6

The car is amazing inside and out, upon my final inspection everything turned out to be fresh and flawless. Just to be extra safe, I'm going to get an oil change, coolant flush, and replace all the filters. This thing runs as smooth as a brand new car.

Nathan C

Congrats! Post up some pictures when you can.

Firebrian

Glad to hear everything worked out great.