Gunsr

Hi everyone, I ran into this forum while trying to do some research about a Camaro I am interested in buying (Sorry if this is the wrong place for this kind of post). It is a '99 Z28 in light pewter, a nice looking color, but to be honest not my absolute favorite (I like white, black, and red, though the teal is an interesting one too). It has 78k miles, T-Tops (good weatherproofing all around, no leaks anywhere), and the 6-speed which has been rebuilt and upgraded. It has been garage kept, never driven in snow, and it looks like new. I have seen the car in person, and cannot see any scratches or dents, headlights are not faded at all, has the factory chrome wheels and stock exhaust. Everything looks like new on it.

The seller says the transmission was rebuilt roughly 10k miles ago, and says the following upgrades have been performed:

• LS7 Clutch
• LS7 Flywheel
• Synchro rebuild kit
• Bronze fork pads on all gears
• Billet stainless steel keys for 1st + 2nd gear
• New 3rd gear spacer
• Steel fork for 3rd to 4th
• Tick Performance adjustable clutch master cylinder
• GM LS6 clutch slave cylinder
• New GM pilot bushing
• ARP bolts for flywheel and pressure plate
• Spicer heavy duty driveshaft U joints
• UMI Performance Torque Arm and poly bushing
• GM Hurst shifter and leather shift ****
• SLP high flow airbox lid
• NAPA replacement driver side window motor
• New OEM rear hatch struts
• New GM motor mounts
• New GM transmission mount
• New Federal MOOG steering tie rod ends
• Kee Audio Level II Speaker package
• BF Goodrich G-force Sport Comp 2 tires

The seller wants $8 grand obo for the car, which sounded fair TBH but KBB has it valued at $5,907 in excellent condition with all options, NADA had it at about $6,500 Retail and $4,575 trade-in. I'm sure the value is more than that because of some of these parts, but I have no idea how much more or if any of this should be warning signs that previous owner may have ragged on the car (I doubt, but just wanted to see others thoughts). I do know it has the skip shift installed on it as well. Considering all these things, what is a fair and honest offer? I really dislike KBB and the like, especially since they have different pricing they offer to dealers and to the general public.

It's a few years older than my current car, but almost half the miles and more desirable of course (I drive an '03 Maxima 6-speed - a sort of unicorn in the Maxima world). It snows where I live and I have no garage, so it would sit outdoors in the winter - I would definitely invest in a fitted car cover if I bought it though. I do not drive many miles in a year (I've put maybe 3k-4k miles on my Maxima this year), so for days with snow on the road I would probably just not go anywhere. I'd hate to be the first owner to start driving this in the snow since both previous owners garage kept and never drove in snow. Sidenote, how bad is a Camaro to drive in the snow? I think the tires on it are summer tires, so I would probably need all-seasons for the driving I do - correct? Or maybe buy a dedicated set of winter tires and swap that out since he already has summer tires for it? I have no garage, so I'd probably have to keep in our shed - would that be ok for the tires or no?

The other part of my post I want to ask about something I've seen on both LT1 and LS1 engines. This Camaro is the first LS1 I've looked at, all others have been LT1s. I figured the motor being a little "quivery" was because of optispark or that the owner was naughty and didn't replace that last sparkplug (sorry I don't know specifics like you guys probably do, but I remember that if you take it to a dealer they drop the engine out to get to the 8th sparkplug - please correct me if this is wrong and you don't need to do this, or if this was just an LT1 thing). The easiest way I can describe what I see is to open one of the doors, and then just look at it. It bobs up and down and shakes a bit. Not bad, just enough that if you put your hand on it you can easily feel it moving up and down.

My main question, is this normal and ok for these to be doing this? My experience with cars has been transverse mounted V6s and V8s so I'm not sure how much that may represent the difference here or not. I've driven a few 3800 Supercharged GMs, as well as a Northstar V8 Cadillac (No issues, and I sold it before it developed any - too paranoid ) and none of those vehicles, current Maxima included, ever shake. My oldest 3800 was a '96 supercharged series II and ran smooth as could be, even with 170k miles. People who aren't GM or LS specialists seem to just tell me "well, it's probably the cam in the car, they just run like that" but I'd like to verify with people who know these much more intimately. I've seen some say the LS2 in things like the GTO were a lot smoother and resolved some of this, so if it's just a matter of refinement I can probably live with it.

I considered a 2001 Cobra, but the seller wanted $10 grand for it and it had more miles on it. And I despise Fords to boot, I was only willing to consider a Mustang if it was at least a Cobra. I'd be so much happier buying a Camaro or some other LS based GM. I'd love a CTS-V or GTO with a nice cam, but those are not available under $10k (Well, unless you get an '04 GTO automatic with a bunch of miles...I'll pass on that).

Any advice, thoughts, or opinions on the Camaro and the slight quiver on the LT and LS engines?

usnfenix

iTrader: (11)

my word of advice? much. shorter. posts.

02DroptopZ

iTrader: (3)

KBB values should be thrown in the trash on anything that isnt a couple years old, they're just way off with how they calculate values. As an example, take a look at a 98 Camaro SS. With 160k miles in fair condition, they value it at $3k. They then value that same car, in excellent condition with 1,600 miles at $7,500.

IMO, $7,000 would be a fair offer to make on that car, but if he doesn't budge I wouldn't feel bad about paying $8k at all if you really like it. It sounds like a nice car. As far as if it was ragged on, I would personally rather have a car owned by someone who cared about it and modified it and drove it hard than someone who bought it and didn't give a crap about it and slacked on maintenance.

My buddy daily's his lowered '00 SS 6spd in the winter every year. With snow tires and some sand bags in the trunk there's no problems, even on big hills and driveways. If you want to try without snow tires.. Get used to knowing where to hook up the tow rope. You're gonna be using it. Storing the tires in a shed should be fine, just air them up an extra few pounds, and yes the BFG Comp-2's are summer only. You can always get a cheap set of early 90's Camaro rims (called salad shooters) and some cheap 205/55/16 studdable snow tires for under $500.

Anyone who pulls an engine to change spark plugs on anything other than a Beetle or a Bugatti should be embarrassed. It's not a walk in the park, but it's not the end of the world to change, just time consuming (compared to other cars). As for the shaking, it's obviously not going to be as smooth as most cars. A 5.7L engine making lots of torque in a relatively light car is going to shake, especially in a pretty simple less refined car such as an f-body. Chalk it up to character and don't worry about it, you'll get used to it in no time.

Best of luck if you decide to go through with the purchase, and don't forget to post up some pics!

JD_AMG

Hmm seems strange that a "stock" car with 80K miles has a transmission rebuilt.
The shaking at idle could be a bad motor mount or transmission mount, or maybe the original owner put in polyurethane or solid mounts (which wont damp the vibration like the stock rubber mounts would).
Could also be an aftermarket cam like the "other guys" are telling you.
Could also be a bad plug, plug wire, or a miss fire from something else. Could also be the exhaust rubbing up on the floor boards. Hard to diagnose without actually seeing it, but a bone stock car shouldn't really shake/quiver much if any at all. In the cold they might a little, but once they warm up they should be pretty smooth. Aftermarket exhaust may make it shake a little more.
And no, you don't need to drop the engine to change a plug...lol. #8 sucks, but you can get it easier from under the car.

Also Camaro + summer tires = shitty in the snow (like any other front engine-RWD performance car). It doesn't help that its a torquey car with little weight over the rear tires. Ive driven in very light snow with my car years ago when it was stock, on the stock goodyear tires and it was surprisingly decent, didn't have any issues, however that was light snow and nothing serious.

Firebrian

Sounds like a nice car that was cared for. The new transmission could have simply been the desire to get rid of all the stock weak points in the T56 transmission when mileage was starting to get up there at 65K+. If you want to run the car towards the limits then the transmission and rear end are weak points. A simple clutch failure (slave for instance) could have required dropping the trans. And at that point upgrading the clutch and trans is not a bad idea. Another common problem is slow action in the clutch at max throttle (1st to 2nd shift). The solution is often to modify/upgrade the clutch system.

While it would be a shame to run the car in the winter, it's not the end of the world either. My '98 Z28 automatic saw a good amount of snow. It did fine on all season radials as long as you didn't push it. It wouldn't hook up well in wet weather though.

Pewter is not a very popular color....maybe the least desirable. Teal is popular and different. Still, if the car was nice, I wouldn't let the color stop me from buying it. Finding decent 6 speeds under $8K is not easy. You could probably spend $7K to $8K and possibly find an all orig 45K to 55K mile car. And it may not be any better than this one here. But there's no doubt that a 55K mile car is generally a lot more desirable than a 75K mile car. 10K miles on the new clutch and upgraded trans should have been enough time to see if any installation flaws had occurred. It's not unusual to have to drop the trans again to fix the clutch or input bearings. Just make sure that trans and clutch are smooth and without odd noises.

KBB is based on a typical 150K mile car. It's probably accurate for that. Is half that mileage worth a premium of $2K....I think so. $7K to $8K seems like a reasonable price range. Finding a stock 6 speed in nice condition with <80K miles for under $7K won't be easy. Seems like most of the ones out there are priced no lower than $7K. Many are up to $10K (and not selling either).

1 FMF

iTrader: (1)

i have a 2002 with 73k miles, am the original owner, garaged not driven during the winter.
not sure what your goal was or what you wanted answered... because of the novel you wrote haha.
but fwiw if i was selling mine i would not ask less than $10k or would tell the buyer to gft.
common problems on these cars if they are 'normally' driven and not beat on are
- rear axle problems, specifically pinion seal leaking and noisy ring & pinion gear over time. the harder the car is driven the greater the chances the rear axle will cause problems.
- not uncommon for t56 6-speed transmission problems, nor clutch problems. can go either way, so test drive car and make sure it shifts ok when cold and when hot, and the clutch operates decent.
- the window motors, if it didn't work i would not be surprised. it's a common problem, be happy it was addressed, hopefully it was fixed properly.
- the LS1 of that era is notorious for piston slap and knocking noise when cold. once they heat up they should get quiet. mine really knocks in cold weather on cold start, but you go easy on it till it warms up then mine is quiet and runs great burns no oil.
- the shake/quiver i would say is normal. my car is stock minus new rear axle and suspension stuff but before then and i'd say after 40k miles or around 6 years i noticed the quiver. and i currently have new rubber motor mounts and trans mount, so i know it's not those nor spark plugs or wires. you can look up my username here about it. i don't know what causes it, but as far as i can tell over the years it doesn't hurt nothing, doesn't affect gas mileage or power. when idling you can feel it in your butt in the seat and through the shifter handle. with hood up looking at engine you can see the engine shake periodically. maybe gm programmed the pcm after 36k miles to do that so the owner would then go buy a new car, i dunno, like my ******* phone after a couple years and OS updates everything runs slower.

with any used car purchase, you need to look it over thoroughly and take nothing for granted. get under the car and inspect. try to get long test drives on it and use a handheld scanner on the obd2 port to check for any stored DTC's. if the service engine light is on then definitely get the codes checked. it's not uncommon for older cars to need minor things like air check valves, an air pump or evap solenoid. also find out if the owner had the computer tuned, if so that in my opinion is not a good thing. and the ls1 is a much better choice than lt1 given the optispark on the lt1, you don't want that. so for the asking price of this '99 z28 if you like it and it's not highly modified and well kept then it sounds like a good buy.

Gunsr

Thanks for the thoughts, I wanted to include all the details about the car in my initial post to make sure it was clear what kind of condition it was in (I know it was a bit long winded). The car is not particularly close to me, so the owner met me part way last time to look at it. There were no service lights on. I do have an OBD2 scanner which can pull codes, I'm not sure though - is there any way I can tell if the ECM was reprogrammed or tuned with a code scanner? Based on what I saw and talking with the owner, I don't think he or the previous owner did.

If I buy this Camaro, I'm not sure how long I'd own it. Maybe to 150k maybe more or less (Probably far less consider my annual mileage). I've always wanted a cammed V8, so that would be a real dream accomplished to have a cam installed and tuned on it. How much money on average would it cost to have that done? Does it help or hurt the value more if you do things like that? I'm not sure if more people feel it's been raced and abused if they see a cam installed, or if they think that's a plus for the extra performance. At 78k miles, it's not too late/old to be doing those sorts of things to the engine is it?

I'd like a C5 Corvette in the future, but haven't found any that weren't too expensive. I'd almost rather hold out for a ZO6 and spend the extra money on that. Or perhaps a CTS-V, so this Camaro would be my "daily driver" until such a time (If you can call driving maybe 1-2 days out of the week at most daily driving). My assumption would be that these Camaros hold their value fairly well since GM put them on hiatus after 2002 and the next newest is a big price jump from even an '02 SS typically. I'm figuring on getting about $5k for my Maxima (I would so hate giving up my heated steering wheel and seats, but thems the breaks for performance I suppose), so looking at about $2-3k out of pocket to go back 4 years but upping the performance and the overall vehicle condition. Only option this Camaro looks to be missing is leather seats, which from what I read about them might be a good thing.

In an ideal world, the main things I'd like done to the Camaro would be headers, true dual exhaust (Or a 1 in-1 out muffler, I don't care for the sound they make with the 1 in-2 out muffler), and a cam (I'm a newb here, but semi-aggressive would be nice - whatever is still streetable). Does this car sound like a good candidate for these mods, or should it be left alone (from a reliability standpoint)?

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

I'm not a fan of pewter either. Actually, I've owned two 4th gens in pewter and regretted getting it both times because I was never able to appreciate the color for anything other than its ability to hide dirt. It's a nice color for a truck, but I could never make myself really like it on an F-body no matter how much I tried. So my advice here is, if you are picky about color and not sure if you like this shade, then just take a pass on this one because it may just bother you more as time goes by - at least that was the case for me.

Sounds like it's in nice shape, but just like every t-top or hardtop '99+ 4th gen, you will eventually have to deal with roof panel bubbles if the car is outside regularly. You can learn more about this condition via the sticky thread in the Paint and Bodywork section, but the quick summary is that the only way to correct this issue is complete roof panel replacement. This affects all of them, and it's not a matter of neglect or surface treatment - the problem lies underneath. Again, details are contained in said sticky.

These cars are just plain awful in the snow with summer tires, and not great with all-seasons either. The better plan is a dedicated set of true snow/ice tires as you mentioned above. I used my '02 as a daily driver in some pretty horrible winter conditions (blizzards, packed snow, unplowed lots, icy highway ramps, etc.), and with skinny snow tires (225/55/16) on narrow wheels (16x7.5") and 100lbs of gravel in the trunk, nothing could stop me. While I personally would not want to subject another nice one to these sorts of conditions due to the resulting cosmetic wear, they certainly can handle it with the proper tires.

Nobody should be pulling the engine to get to the #8 plug. If they are, then they really shouldn't be working on cars and will likely not put it back together correctly anyway.

Every LS1 I've owned has had a slight quiver, even the two that I bought brand new. This has been normal for all the Gen III and Gen I "performance" SBCs that I've ever owned. It gets worse with a bigger cam and/or with various sensors and components that have aged, but even the stock cam in a "high performance" variant of these V8s has always had that slight quiver at idle in my experience. Those who are less sensitive might never notice it, or perhaps you are feeling the effects of a normal quiver that's been amplified by some other issue (such as poor A/F ratio or slight misfire, etc.) Hard to tell without experiencing it first hand, but you can always try looking at another for the purpose of comparison.

Gunsr

Yeah, the color is something I'm kind of "don't hate it" but "don't love it" either. I think my silver Maxima while special because it's a Titanium edition and only they had this specific silver, is a bit boring and plain on the Maxima IMO (I would have much rather had the merlot pearl, very nice maroon color). But I really just dislike bronze, so thankfully it isn't that. If I had my choice, I'd be pretty happy with bright red, hugger orange, mystic teal, montery maroon, bright green, bright silver, or arctic white. For my Maxima, I was sold on it because of the 6-speed and didn't care about the color. If I waited on finding one in the exact colors I'd like...well, I doubt I'd even have one right now. I'm just not sure if I should let the color drive me away or not. I feel like some of the other colors have a lot more pop and wow factor (like hugger orange), but OTOH a lot of the dark colors can just look kind of whatever from the pics I've seen.

There's another Camaro I just found on Craigslist. It's a 2001 Z28, Navy Blue, 114k miles, factory alloy wheels, no T-tops. Unfortunately it's an automatic, but everything else sounds good on it. It has Kooks longtube headers, a catted Y pipe, and SLP Loudmouth 1 exhaust (This exhaust setup sounds like what I'd likely do, especially those longtube headers!). Looks to be in good shape, does have leather seats with some minor wear, but everything else looks good from pics. Seller says it's his DD as well, it's listed at $8,500 obo. One thing that is suspicious, the seller says he just had the headers and exhaust installed. Why would someone pay the money to have these things put on a car and then sell it? It shows where a legit performance shop installed it all, so I would imagine it was done right but does this sound fishy?

On the one hand I love the headers and everything already installed, and could probably get it similar price to the '99. Like that it's a newer one, only 2 years older than my car, nicer color, and no T-Tops that I'd never use. I'm torn about the automatic...I know they are still pretty fast, but I hate losing the intimate control over the car offered by a manual (And I've always hated autos when they're 4-speed compared to a 6-speed manual - my Maxima is considerably slower and more dreadful with the 4-speed auto, a totally different car even). I know with Camaros this isn't quite as bad, but I feel like there's less I can do to keep the transmission in good shape on an auto compared to a manual.

Should I even look at the automatic Z28, make an offer on the 99 Z28, or just hold out for maybe an '01-'02 6-speed?

Firebrian

Don't underestimate the automatics. Unless you're a seasoned drag strip racer I doubt you can out-shift one. The automatic will be easier on your rear end and the engine and produce every bit as much power. In my mind it's easier to keep an automatic operating properly vs. an M6, especially if you're going to make HP mods. At least with this '99 you're starting with a fairly fresh clutch and trans. I've had both 6 speeds and automatics and there's no question the automatics were faster for me (ie I never missed a gear...lol). For more challenged drivers like myself that extra pedal slows me down in most instances.

If you're goal is to get a cammed car I'd go out and buy it equipped as such. They are many available selling for 10c to 50c on the dollar for the installed upgrades. Whatever you put into the engine on this '99 will almost certainly be money down the drain. There's another thread up this past week on a potential seller in Mass. that has a cammed up high mileage '96 LT1 with $20K into it (new drive-train, fresh paint, improved suspension). Members are telling him that he'll get from $3K to $7K for it. Better to be the buyer of such car than be the one to dump all the money into it only to have to sell it. You should be able to find a nicely modded car fitting your requirements that is selling for peanuts. I wouldn't pay $8500 for a 2001 Z28 with 114K miles and it only had an upgraded exhaust. You can probably find a nice, all-stock '98-'00 automatic SS with 45K-65K miles for that price.

I'd say keep on researching and trying out cars until you resolve all the different issues. Your car will still be out there for you whether it's this year or next year. Don't jump on something just "because." You'll regret it later. The first purchase is often regrettable when you didn't take time to address all the pros and cons of the available cars. There's a lot of information on this site as well as others to help fine tune your decision.

Gunsr

Thanks, so you're saying the M6 tends to not last as long in the F-bodies? I have no problem not missing gears, but on my Maxima as an example, because the synchros are getting crappy it will sometimes kick back out of gear (Noticeably 3rd for me). But I have 150k miles so that's fair I figure. I remember a friend warning me on early CTS-V's and GTOs that the rear ends were weak from the factory and to buy a newer one or an old one that had been upgraded, so I believe what you're saying.

It would be great to find a car already cammed, but I can't imagine anyone with such a car will be reasonable on their price. As it is, it looks like these guys won't take a whole lot less. I have a relative selling a modified Subaru that I'd love to buy if it weren't a little out of my price range, but I know it's also considered a no-no to buy from relatives (Even if you know how meticulous they are with their cars).

So then I take it, modifying one after the fact with anything major is not a great idea financially? So by that, however it is when I go to look at it, it should be most of what I want performance wise right? I get what you mean about buying a stock one for similar money, but if I want one that has the mods it's better to buy one already modded, no? I'd rather the longtube header Camaro with a full exhaust system and a bit more miles than a stock one with less miles since the stock one will be slower and dumping tons of money into mods isn't a great idea financially.

98CayenneT/A

I like pewter on f-body's a lot. And if the car is as clean and straight as you say it is it would be a sin to drive it in the salt even one time ! There is no reason for it

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

The 7.5" 10-bolt found stock in every 4th gen is certainly not the strongest rear in history. In fact, it's one of the weaker examples of a factory solid axle found in a RWD car. That being said, behind an auto trans they are much less likely to break because there is less "shock" received by the rear during aggressive acceleration maneuvers (such as a dead stop launch). Even when the auto is modified and much faster than a stock M6 car, the rear will usually hold up better since the connection is fluid rather than direct. For example, there are A4 cars that have gone in the 1.5x or better 60-foot range on the stock rear, but something like this is almost unheard of with a M6 and the stock rear.

The stock auto trans has been very reliable behind a stock or bolt-on engine in my experience, but I've had to go with a performance build for cammed applications where power level is significantly increased along with higher-than-stock WOT shift points. If the trans has always been maintained well (regular fluid and filter changes, no abusive treatment) and used only at stock or bolt-on power levels, it should be fine beyond 100k miles. With a used example, you never really know the true history so I would be prepared for a possible rebuild at 114k miles.....might not need it for quite a while still, but it's good to be financially prepared for that and factor it into your offer.

None of this really matters if you want a manual though, because it's better to go with what you prefer since usually it will end up being a regret otherwise. I'm on the opposite end of this, I don't like manuals at all so I've purposely always bought the autos and have never been willing to settle for the manual even though at this point the manuals are easier to find locally with lower miles. Always best to get what you want rather than talk yourself into something.

Being a hardtop, roof panel replacement will be much more difficult and costly, so as much as I like the hardtops I wouldn't want one from '99+ at this point. Again, further details are contained in that sticky thread I mentioned above. For people who are unconcerned with cosmetics, and/or can mostly keep the car out of the sun, this might not be such a concern.

Understand that every modification comes with a downside, other than something super basic such as an air lid. LT headers usually reduce ground clearance, can have fitment issues (floorboard banging, etc.) depending on the brand and install of Y-pipe, can cause an SES light sometimes even with tuning (especially when used in cold weather since the front O2s are moved further downstream), and will not pass emissions if you live in an area that does strict visual inspections. There are additional issues to consider if you plan to install an aftermarket cam, but overall it's usually easier to get driveability tuning closer to stock with a cammed M6 vs a cammed A4 since in-gear idle is more sensitive with the auto.

If you have never owned or regularly driven a highly modified vehicle (especially an OBDII vehicle with modified engine internals) you may or may not like the end result for the purposes of a daily driver. No matter what anyone tells you, it's not exactly the same as driving a stock car with an extra ~100rwhp; there are trade-offs, concerns and changes in driveability that even the best custom tune won't be able to completely hide. Of course, the severity of said issues will depend on the specifics of the modifications, but personally I've found that for a true daily driver I really like to limit modifications to no more than bolt-ons.

FirstYrLS1Z

iTrader: (4)

I have a black Z. Pewter is my favorite color because I drive my Z a lot(currently at 190,000 miles stock) and since it's almost a daily driver,Pewter would have been excellent at hiding normal road dirt.
When I went looking to buy a Camaro in 2001,they were all around $18,000.
I was looking for 6 speed,no T-tops,cloth,NBM. At a swap meet,a dealer brought all his f-bod 'toys',firebirds and Camaros. He had a black Z,T-tops,leather,auto for 14,000.I bought it. No regrets for the auto for it served me well against the 6 speeds at the track and on the street.

Gunsr

Well, I don't drive a ton - so if it's a bit more of a chore to drive a cammed car I don't mind it. Unless it means I need to get it serviced a ton or something, I enjoy everything about driving. I drive so much more infrequently than I have in the past few years since I've graduated college, so I miss the driving each day (Not so much the other idiots who were driving, but y'know ).

Based on what you all are saying, I think it's between that '99 Camaro and scrapping the idea of putting headers and a cam on it (But they are a dream...I guess I could just do without) or just holding out for a Camaro that is already cammed with headers. What kinds of simple mods could I do to add that same kind of HP via bolt-on?

I know this is a bad place to necessarily ask if I don't want a biased answer, but what other performance cars would you all recommend under $10k? I found a few "lists" online, but most of their suggestions aren't that fast. Acura RSX...lol, yeah "fast". That stuff is slower than my Maxima...The F-Bodies look like the only thing that is legit performance on the lists I've found (They also included the '03 Mach 1, but I would so dread owning any Ford).

98CayenneT/A

In my opinion by a A4, put a nice converter, exhaust and some drag radials and call it good and make 90% of the cars on the road look goofy, ls1 f-body is a pretty good bang for the buck

Gunsr

What do you guys think comparatively about this Camaro I found (I'm not going to keep posting ones I find, just want to ask about this one to get an idea).

2001 Camaro SS M6 for $10k (seller says price firm). Painted bright red, has the black decals on the sides. 57k miles, looks very clean. Mods:

Comp Cam
Pacesetter LT headers
Slp intake
Borla exhaust
Lowered on Eibach springs
Replica Z06 wheels
Ls7 clutch
Halo Headlights
Tune

Seller says it has busted shocks in the rear but has replacements. Says the car was not raced or abused. Has been garage kept, not even driven in the rain. Is this more worth the money or too overpriced? I feel like it's probably a little overpriced, shouldn't it be maybe 9k?

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

Depending on the cam you select, there may in fact be increased maintenance. A cam with very aggressive lobes is likely going to require somewhat regular valve spring replacement if you want to avoid possible issues. If you just want to toss in a cam and forget about it (other than tuning and understanding that there will always be some degree of driveability deterioration with any aftermarket cam), then something like an LS1 Hotcam (or comparably mild lobes) would be the way to go. You won't light the world on fire with that cam, but with stock LS6 springs it should be fine for at least 100k and there is a definite power gain over stock.

Bolt-ons, such as induction/exhaust/suspension won't generally harm reliability but, as I mentioned above, anything but the most basic mods will have some sort of downside. Whether or not these downsides bother you will be person-specific.

That '01 SS for $10k with those mods and 57k miles might not be over priced at all, depending on location and actual condition (both cosmetic and mechanical) upon inspection. Prices are considerably higher in some areas as compared to others.

Firebrian

I'd put a decent, stock 2001 M6 with 57K miles at about $10K-$11.5K. So it's up to you if those mods are a break even or even worth a premium. In my mind a repaint and extra decals are a distraction/deduction, more so if the car wasn't originally red. We have a pretty good idea on how well original paint holds up over the years. What we don't know is how someone's repaint is going to hold up. I myself would steer away from a repainted car unless it was in the <$8K range. Garage kept, never abused, never saw rain...but needed a repaint?

I'm not a fan of a seller who "cares a lot" for their car. Then doesn't install the new shocks they bought. Busted rear shocks at 57K seems a bit unusual for a no rain, never raced/abused car. And while they may have never driven it in the rain, we don't necessarily know about previous owner's habits unless they are the only owner. $10K could be a fair price if tires are good, paint has no real flaws, AC has no leaks, fluids all up to date, etc. Very few cars will be selling between now and early March. You'll be one of the few people making real offers. If they have intentions of selling now they will have to consider reasonable offers, regardless of a "firm" price. If a mild modded car is what you want, definitely buy it that way. The advantage of a 1 or 2 owner stock vehicle is that you can often figure out exactly what it is. 3 or more owners, mods, etc. tend to muddy the waters.

Here's a listing of supposedly "sold" Z28/SS's on Ebay over the past 90 days that fit into the price/mileage range. I'd consider the Pontiacs as well as they under even stronger demand than the Chevys, are harder to find, and carry an approx 10-15% premium that can be recovered upon resale.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/Cars-Trucks-...00&_udhi=11000

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

I didn't see anything about the car being re-painted, just that it was "painted red", which I assumed to simply mean that the factory paint color was red. But if it's a repaint, it must've had a pretty rough time at some point to need fresh paint at only 57k miles of fair weather driving.

I agree about the "busted" shocks. Busted how? The rear shocks on my '98 were defective and needed to be replaced under warranty when the car was just about two years old. Factory shocks are not the greatest, but shouldn't be physically broken at such low mileage without a factory defect - and such a defect should've shown up at a much earlier age/mileage IMO.

Being lowered and with LT headers, I would expect some ground clearance issues, especially if you have to deal with steep ramps or driveways, or speed bumps, during your normal travels.

Without details on the cam, I wouldn't personally be interested. I'd want to know the cam profile, what valve springs it has, and how many miles there are on said springs. I guess none of this would matter if you planned to change the cam again, but if you want to drive it as-is and expect daily-driver reliability, then details on this and/or any other internal engine mods would be a must if it were for me.

Halo headlights look foul to me, so I'd deduct the cost of OEM replacements from my offer if he can't provide the originals with the car. In my experience, none of the aftermarket headlights fit quite as well as the assembly line originals (which are no longer available from GM as they have dropped the original supplier and now use Depo, just like the aftermarket) so I'd want a nice set of those to come with the car to avoid the hunt (and possible restoration needed) for an original set.