ToxicWS6

fairly new to HPtuners so still learning alot but have done a decent amount of reading before ive tryed alot of this but..

car has had a tune on it for the engine set up thats in it minus boost, so far i was able to successfully convert the tune over from a MAF tune to a SD tune and deleted the MAF, right now what im trying to do is dial in my STFTs.

i was using this as a reference on learning and getting my tune down

http://www.mediafire.com/?amd2yi94msg

im on step 2.1 tuning with STFT

what i do is go out log data and do the whole pulsate the pedal thing and fill in as many cells as i can, i went home, copied over the log data of the STFTs and pasted them as an "add" to the secondary VE table (in SD mode so i dont need primary correct?)

well im on my 3rd time of doing it and even though the car might be running better up higher rpms and in boost, its extremely bucky/random down low and idles very interesting, goes from normal idle to EXTREMELY lopy almost like a diesel lope, and basically gets worse and worse as i continue to log and paste data in.

ive saved each tune as i progress so i can always go back one step or all the way back to the beggining

when i log and paste data, from my understanding is the numbers should be getting closer and closer to 0 each time and atleast by the 3rd time should be fairly close, seems to be the higher rpms (2.8k and higher) seem to stay roughly the same and then under that get worse and worse

i guess what im asking is am i missing a step or am i doing something wrong?

i really want to try to learn how to do this myself with help and all but dont necessarily want to copy some one elses tune per say, kinda want to understand what im changing and what it does to the car etc

ill attempt to post the logs of each run when i get on my laptop and if needed post the original tune before i started copy pasting log data and see how you all feel about it

ToxicWS6

first tune is what i started with "SD tune 2"

then the 2.1 stft is the log from SD tune 2

2.2 is log from SD tune 2.1 after i added the log data from log 2.1 to tune 2.0 which made 2.2

2.3 is log data from SD tune 2.2 (didnt upload) after log data from 2.2 was pasted to tune 2.1

sorry if thats alittle confusing but lol

greenvortec97

iTrader: (1)

quick question, do you own a wideband?

ToxicWS6

yes i do, i just dont have it wired into my HP tuners yet, i keep an eye on it every time i make a pull though

ToxicWS6

also idk if something didnt load right or if its just me but when i go to view my logs from my links my STFTs only show 15 MAP value, if i view from my laptop on the actual file it shows everything, i can post pics if you all can not see it also

greenvortec97

iTrader: (1)

you need to start over, the fuel trim data goes into both primary ve and secondary, Cpig's tuning guide is a little flawed and outdated.
the "dieseling" effect is just your engine leaning out. restart everything. both tables need fuel trim data
When you make changes to the primary, all the even rows in it need to be copied over to the secondary.

so... log, do the changes in PRIMARY and THEN secondary


You could also try tuning your VE tables with a wideband in open loop. but that's just what I would do. I don't know if the big name tuners here would go about the same way or not. depends on what the car likes I suppose.

PS, The logs look fine to me. no abnormal map readings

ToxicWS6

ok thank you!

so in SD you still use both primary and secondary tables?

and when u say just the even ones in primary get copied to secondary, ur basically saying only copy the ones that exsit in the secondary from the primary?

and ok cool, with the first tune i linked my high rpm/boost pulls seem perfect stay right at 12.8 the whole time till i run out of injector, last few they would lean out way faster, but ok ill give it a shot today and let u know how it all goes!

thanks!

also look into wiring my wideband in

greenvortec97

iTrader: (1)

yeah after you make the changes to the primary, copy the even rows from it to the secondary and flash the pcm. let me know how it works out

ToxicWS6

ight will do! thank you!

i should be seeing the numbers closer to 0 when i do correct?

greenvortec97

iTrader: (1)

correct, only if you're tuning on the street your values will look more like 1s and 2s and 3s. you will get some 0s but don't worry if you can't get them all. just as long as they're within a -3 to 3 range you'll be okay. how many lbs of boost are you seeing?

ToxicWS6

im running 8lbs atm, im not really to worried about getting boost dialed in yet as i dont have my 2bar map put in yet but it came in today so possibly today or tomm ill get the map put in

for the 2 bar map should i change my OS to the "SD tune 2 bar os" or just install it and contuie with the way ive been tuning?

Russ K

iTrader: (1)

Use copy with labels from the entire primary table, then paste into the secondary table.

Russ Kemp

ToxicWS6

ok so i went out and got a pretty good log of the tune (if i need to do a better job logging let me know, dont mind constructive criticism lol)

SD tune 2 is what i started with

SD tune 2.1 STFT log is the log i got using the SD tune 2

SD tune 2.1 is what i got after i copy pasted STFT to primary VE table then transferred the 10s 20s 30s etc ranges to secondary, i did this by highlighting the 10 all the way across the RPM scale and then copy and pasting it into the 10 scale in the secondary i did this all the way to 100

SD tune 2,2 STFT log is what i scanned after i flashed with the 2.1 tune, its not a long log as i didnt have alot of time today sorry

and to add to note when i was in tune 2.1 it didnt "diesel" like before but at idle was smooth ish but AFR was off the gauge lean, hit half pedal rev it would go to 12-14 ish then back to lean, pedal was delay/hesitant ish

when driving around on this tune the lower rpm higher gear (1400rpms in say 4th or 5th) actually felt like it pulled a little better/smoother but hard to say

all in all i feel orginal SD tune 2 is a better tune then SD tune 2.1, if im doing the VE tables correct let me know and ill try to get a few more logs and re flashes done tomm and let you all know how it goes

again thanks everyone!

PS im going to rename my logs/tunes next time so its less confusing, honestly dont know why i did them this way lol

ToxicWS6

so i finally have time to sit down and compare the two logs and all, idk if im missing what im actually doing so correct me if im wrong but..

when i take a log and it shows my STFT table and im filling in the cells, the numbers that show up are what my tune numbers need to change by?

like if (for easy math) my tune has a number 50 at X rpm and X MAP cell and i do a log and it reads -10 in that same cell its saying my tune needs to be changed to 40 and not 50, so it would read 0 when i rescanned/logged correct?

if the theory above is correct then from my two logs, first one has roughly on average -25 through most the lower rpms, after i copy pasted into my tune it sould of taken away the 25 (-25, negative number plus positive would subtract, sorry for math lesson just making sure what im typing makes sense lol) correct?

if so why does my log from the 2nd tune with the above adjustments made have it saying that i need to add 50 on average? wouldnt that mean i should of logged positive 25 the first time and not -25? if you look at my to logs and compare the STFT youll see what im getting at i hope

if i keep logging will it balance out or no? dosnt make sense that it would at this point but, i am new to this so...lol

hope thats not confusing and you all get what im tryin to say lol

really appreciate yalls time and helpin me out!

greenvortec97

iTrader: (1)

Just a quick glance at your actual tune file showed me why you might be leaning out so bad. for starters...
You haven't been smoothing each time you pasted data into the VE table, If you look at the in a 3d graph mode it is very peaky in the part throttle areas.

next off, Your 02 switch points have been messed with, Set them to stock. 450mv or 451mv across the board, i forget which one it is for fbodies.

and lastly, your timing is too aggressive for boost.

It would be best if you start all over again from scratch dude. take it slow. In my opinion you would just be better off tuning it completely in Open loop with a wideband. Find a stock file for your car and get it to idle, slowly start working on the fueling and leave the spark for last.

ToxicWS6

well i was working off a mail order tune i got for this engine when it was n/a, thought i could take that tune cut timing (i went from i beleive 27degrees after 3k rpms and took it down to what it is now, 22 degrees? and wasnt getting knock really so felt it was safe), change everything to SD setup, that way i would t have to dial in my cam and all again but if i need to restart everything i can.

btw this is engine spec incase i didnt give
5.3L short block
243 heads
epp blower cam (can post specs when i get home if needed)
ls6 intake
80m bbk tb

ill go adjust everything u suggested and let u know how it goes

thought h did the smoothing last but ill do it to the graph and see how it goes

do thise logs make sense assuming i didnt smoothen the graph?

ToxicWS6

also should i hand smooth out the graph by manually dragging the spikes to match the rest or should i use the "smooth" feature/button in HP tuners?

ToxicWS6

ok so heres the new tune i came up with from what you suggested,

i dropped a degree in spark timing everywhere after 2.8krpms and over, i think, .40 some kpa, i wasnt reading spark knock but, and i do plan on turning the boost up once i get what i have dialed in so not super super concerned with this aspect but appreciate your input!

the biggie! lol, i went in to my 3d graph and tried messing with it but between being on a touch mouse and not a real one and how peaky it was i couldnt grab some of the peaks so i put it in the line graph mode saw the 3 highest KPA lines, saw how they kinda went, then went to every other line noticed where they started and where they ended and then tried to form then as smooth and some what look like the above 3 that where smooth looking, after i did what i could on the line graph i switched back to the 3d graph which looked alot better smoothness wise, adjusted the rest of the peaks as best i could then copied the even numbers from the primary table (one i just adjusted everything on) and pasted into secondary

now for the 02 sensor thing i understand what your sayin but had a difficult time finding it and im 95% sure i found what you where talking about so i changed it to 451mv all the way across the table on both B1 and B2 so if you dont mind check my tune and make sure its in the right place, i found it under Engine>fuel>Open and Closed loop> "02 rich/lean vs airflow" then bank 1 and bank 2 as options

again i really appreciate the help as im still able to do this my self so im learning it all but im not out burning a ton of gas and getting no where lol

PS idc if the graph is to a high CR N/A engine or a SD turbo engine but could you or some one post a tune that has a good smooth proper looking VE table just so i know what mine should kinda look like, not numbers persay but just physically what the 3D one looks like, thanks! unless mine looks good now


also i havnt loaded this tune in the car yet or logged but im going to go load it in and log and see whats up after this is posted so should have log data if car runs well by tonight

ToxicWS6

with the above tune installed this is the readings

i think i understand what i need to do now to the VE tables, btw the 800rpm/(i think) 50 kpa readings, what ever idle was and it only had a 4 and 3 in the 2 cells was the best this cars ever idled once it landed into those 2 blocks

going lean again at WOT so going to up the numbers there

thank you everyone!

greenvortec97

iTrader: (1)

The reason why i said start over is because that VE table is too far gone. You're chasing your tail with it. And yes. The smooth buttons are better. I don't drag anything on the 3d graph, I just use it as a reference point.

are you resetting fuel trims when you log each time? you need to be doing that