robin427

I have a stock LS1 from a 2002 Firebird. I'd like to buy EFILive or similar, but paying another few hundred dollars for a wideband O2 + controller seems a bit much. Is the data you can log useful if you won't have a WB fitted?

Joel_SS

iTrader: (8)

You need a WB if you are serious about tunning the car right.. Green light motorsports have some awesome specials on EFILive and a LC-1 right now

robin427

Does seem like a good deal, but would I be better to wait until the V2 scan tool comes out?

foff667

iTrader: (2)

a wideband really should be considered a necessity when tuning.

brad8266

iTrader: (23)

Tuning for WOT is worthless without a wideband. You can tune closed loop to get the LTFT's in place without a wideband as well as do other stuff like mess with limiters, change timing, and other operating parameters. But when it comes to WOT tuning a wideband is needed.

Doc

iTrader: (9)

Robin,
What is/are your tuning goals? You listed your make and model but no mods? I take it you are just starting out? Do you plan on tuning other's vehicles? What is the market share of Third Gen motors in London? If you only plan on tuning your own vehicle then the Outstanding deals at GreenLight on a V1 would be a perfect fit for your immediate needs. If you have further aspirations for LS2 based vehicles then great go for V2. As a V1, LC-1, Road Runner owner all I can say is I wish GreenLight had the deal they do now back when I started getting into this but oh well... I have learned a great deal by having and playing with the system. Fortuneatly, here in the states there are a plethera of LSx based vehicles for me to tune on. I am anxiously awaiting V2 for a bunch of new LS2 vehicles lined up to be tuned.

WAHUSKER

iTrader: (4)

I have HP Tuners & have done much of my tuning with the stock narrow band O2s. But I also dyno the car a LOT using a wideband so I know what my O2 readings mean. They can be very erratic, and many aren't accurate. If you must do it, shoot for 880mV to 920mV.

robin427

I've got the engine in a kit car (see www.creffieldcobra.co.uk) but I've been told that apparently the stock tune is fairly conservative. I've got no AIR, EGR, A/C on the engine and want to maximise the power (or at least get some more out of it). I could just take it to a tuning shop, but I've a feeling that a high power tune would make the car fail annual emissions tests, so having my own software would let me flash a lean tune before each test and then return back to a power tune. Might even swap the cam for a different one...

I'm opting for EFILive because a friend has a very similar setup and will be good local support.

RedWS6 00

Wow that car is going to fly. Youre already about 350hp/ton before mods.
What you will find in the stock 2002 PCM (ECU) is that WOT wil be richer than whats set in a Vette. The LS1's in Vette and Trans-Am's are the same engine, but the Trans-Am is rated about 20hp less, why?, well the PE (Power Entichment) table is one thing thats different. Mine was certainly less than 12AFR at WOT, have tweaked it to 12.75 - 13.1 depending on RPM. Really you need the Widedand to get this close.

However I dont tihnk you are going to need to squeese the extra few HP out of the engine, you may just want to get HP Tuners to tinker with DFCO, Gear shifts, spark timing, etc.... You could leave the PE, WOT tuning as stock.

I could give you a hand if my HP tuners would talk to your car, but I only brought a licence for a 2000 model, and not sure if it will work for 2002, I can certainly log data from different years but not sure if I can make changes. I'd be happy to lend a hand.

jimmyblue

iTrader: (11)

You can get a long way without the wideband, but the WOT
nonidealities (fuel fade, etc.) are what you'll miss without it.
You can get to a pretty decent VE table using the NBO2s
if you create a special tune for it that keeps you in open
loop, EQ=1.000 (and pulls out enough spark not to blow up).
It takes a lot of driving and you have to digest the data for
yourself. But just like any other power tool there is a hand
way to do it, which just involves more effort.

-If- you can get the tune so that what you command is what
happens (at EQ=1.000) then you can target PE and hope
that the fuel system is up to the job, in areas you couldn't
go (WOT at 14.7:1). Although you might be able to go there
with enough spark pulled out. Realizing that spark changes
airflow and fueling some.

Plenty of things to keep you busy until you can afford the
wideband. A wideband is also a good thing to borrow from
a friend rather than buy, if you aren't always meddling with
the motor and just want to get it done once. Although too
many friends are prone to buy widebands that aren't so
portable.

brad8266

iTrader: (23)

yeah my stock tune was calling for like 11.x AFR.