Lawnboy

iTrader: (54)

My 01 SS M-6 Camaro

D1-sc with long tube FLP headers,

The car is drinking alot more fuel then befor, when it was stock

I am not 100% sure about short and long fuel trims,
but i am seeing +25 on my long trims at a 60-70MPH cruse in 5th-6th gear at
2000-3000 steady RPM's

even in 4th at a steady RPM my long term is 25-27.

A friend of mine today said i am rumming to rich, i should be seeing 0 +2 -2 or so.
Please let ma know whats going on,
thank you

Also if there is other ways to know how rich the car is running at a idel or steady cruse.

From there i can tell my tuner whats going on so he can adjust the tune.

dynocar

The closed loop function is adding max fuel because it detects that you are too lean.

jimmyblue

iTrader: (11)

Trims are a response to something. They may be
making you rich or they may be just trying to make
you not-lean. The number in itself, is only a cry for
help.

That far jacked, I would look at the O2s first and see
if they are even alive.

If you are sitting at +25% (or more, but I didn't think
that was possible on the LTFTs) you ought to be seeing
a lean mixture code. If the O2s are whacked enough to
be doing this then O2 codes as well.

Turning off too many codes may take away diagnostic
clues you could use. Only kill codes when you are sure
they are bogus.

The blower will add some drag and cost you cruise fuel
economy. But it should not whack the mixture at cruise.
Depending on the blower you might blow some oil onto
the MAF and need to clean it. If you still have one.

SSpdDmon

iTrader: (10)

I'm with jimmy...try some other NBO2 sensors that you know work or go buy some new ones.

Lawnboy

iTrader: (54)

Yes I am stil running a Mass air flow sensor,

I am not sure how my O2 sensors are?

But i think something is defently wrong,
It feel at cruse that the car is so slightly hesitating, you can barley feel it but its there , like a rick mixture.

Can my tuner just take out some fuel from the 2000 rpm -3000 rpm fuel map,
to see what happends?

Also where can i get a set of front 02's at a good price,
I am not running rears anymore.

thank you for your help

Lawnboy

iTrader: (54)

But arent my LTFTs suspose to be at 0 , or very close to Zero.

The car has been dyno tuned and has motron #60 pound injectors,
The tune is not perfect , running at 11.2 on pump gas and around 11.0 with a little bit of methanol. I have a Razor methanol injection system.
But it seems to be ok at 60% + throttle during a pull, car pulls very hard.

Its just at cruise at like 50-75 MPH normal cruise driving , this is where i want to fix the rich condition> and where my LTFTs are at 25.

What can I do or tell my tunner ?
What has to be done?
Please help!

chrisj6

Why do you want your tuner to take out fuel!? Your trims are adding the max fuel. I would check those o2's first and see how they pan out, if they turn to be good, you are running very lean and your o2's are just trying to add fuel to get your mixture back in line. With them being that high, I sense something being terribly wrong either in the tune or mechanically.

dynocar

"What can I do or tell my tunner ?
What has to be done?
Please help!"

Lawnboy, the only thing that you need to do is to tell your tuner this, "my fuel trims are off, please fix it." If he can't take it from there, you have the wrong tuner.

The thing that you don't tell a tuner is something like this, "some guys on a forum are telling me that you should do this and that." Again, if this is what is needed, you have the wrong tuner, and if you happen to have a dam good tuner, you probably just pixxed him off and again you may need to find a different tuner.

Lawnboy

iTrader: (54)

Relax
My tuner is the best , I am just asking a ?
and tell you whats going on,
I heard from a friend ( not a tuner) that my LTFT should be around zero not 20-27.

I dont think its my 02's , what could be wrong with the car mechanically?

jimmyblue

iTrader: (11)

You are either delivering short fuel, delivering proper fuel
to a short airflow reading, or trimming based on bogus
data. At cruise your fuel system should not be challenged
so probably not fuel side errors. Usual airflow suspect is
the MAF being drifted by oil etc. You could clean it just
for yucks. Mistrimming is O2 sensors or some fault that
lets excess oxygen into the exhaust. A misfiring cylinder
would do that, a single injector fuel delivery would, or the
O2s can just be not working right on a headers car.

If you have single cylinder problems these ought to show
up in misfires (if you haven't already had them killed). A
MAF bypass air problem should show as a more gross + trim
at low airflows than higher up. Things like a loose PCV
hose, manifold leak, etc. A cracked manifold, loose intake
bolts, a pushed-out MAP sensor etc. all could be letting in
unmetered air.

To assess the O2s you have to look at their switching
waveforms. If they are busy, bouncy and even-looking
then OK. If they look uneven high/low or just sit then
more likely bad, or at the mercy of an air/fuel fault too
gross to trim out.

Lawnboy

iTrader: (54)

The O2's look like they are switching good,

I dont think i have any unmetered air comming in

But i did have to remove the Resister that was on my SLP 85mm zo6 mass air sensor.

The car with the SLP mass air and resistor had a very bad stumble off idel when we reveved her up.

When we took the restor off the at idel the stumble went away , but in gear comming off the clutch in first the car stumbles, RPM falls down etc,
I have to wake up the throttle and peddle her to get her out rolling.

I dont know , but it sucks

I have #60 motorn injectors,
what do you think of the SLP mass air and that resister that SLP installs , so that the ZO6 Mass air will work on a LS1 F-body?

I think i have to try a stock Mass air and a stock Throttle body , I am also using a 75mm accufab throttle body.

jimmyblue

iTrader: (11)

Without the resistor the truck MAF will put you way rich, -25%
fuel trims and a rich mixture code. What you've been indicating
is the opposite, positive trimming. Regardless if you have the
resistor gone you should have a truck MAF table written into
the tune.

Lawnboy

iTrader: (54)

how do you know its a truck mass air sensor?
I though it is a LS6-ZO6 mass air sensor that SLP solders in that resistor so it will work on a F-body.

does the resistor add fuel or take away fuel?

If it is a Truck mass air sensor should i get a real LS6-ZO6 mass air sensor?
Should a put a stock F-body mass air sensor back on ?
Please let me know

What happened was the car would stumble real bad at idel reving her up,
My tunner replaced my old SLP 85mm mass air sensor with a real ZO6-LS6 mass air sensor from a 02 ZO6 that was down at his shopp the same time my car was getting tuned, Whith that Mass air the car he said ran great , although i did not take her for a ride and notice that the car had dipping RPM,s comming off the clutch in first
like its doing now, but the car in park and reving her up was good with the real ZO6 mass air.
So i bought a brand new SLP F-body mass air sensor , us thinking my old one was bad,
we put the new one on the car and the same thing happened, car stumbled bad again.,
so i compared a real ZO6 mass air to the SLP one, I see the resister was the only difference,
so i took it off.

The off idle stumble went away , but after test driving the car
the drivablty was no good , the dipping in RPM's while trying to slip the clutch to get her out into a roll in first is terable the car lays down stutters , stumbles, i have to peddle the throttle to wake her up to get her rolling into first gear.

I dont know but i am stuck!

Lawnboy

iTrader: (54)

Please Help Jimmyblue

brad8266

iTrader: (23)

trims are maxed out at 25, I think you either have a major intake leak or you are in serious need of a good tune. Have you had a tune since the blower install?

Lawnboy

iTrader: (54)

Yes car was tuned after procharger install. ,
and i have no intake leak

do you think it could be the SLP 85mm mass air flow sensor?

brad8266

iTrader: (23)

It could be, do some scanning and see how the MAF is acting. Also try unplugging the MAF for a while and see what the trims do. If they come down then you have a MAF issue.

Lawnboy

iTrader: (54)

I am going to try that tomorrow,

We had to remove the resistor from the SLP mafs,
SLP instals a resistor, but with the resister in place the car would totaly fall on its face wacking th ethrottle,
Are you a tuner brad8266?

brad8266

iTrader: (23)

It sounds like you might want to get rid of that MAF maybe and either get a stocker ported or just suck it up and go SD and not worry about a MAF anymore, that will eliminate the possibility of ever having MAF issues. if I had a blower I would be doing SD no doubt.

I do my own tuning, I dont do it for work. I enjoy it. If I did it for work I would hate it, just like I have a degree in IT and work in IT and hate that.

Schantin

iTrader: (6)

I had the same deal with my STS. Here's the real deal. Your VE tables are probably WAY off....as in calculated for much less airflow than the SC is actually pushing. Fuel is added in relation to the calculated airflow per cell in the VE table. Bigger VE cell number = computer telling the injectors that more air is present and thus add more fuel. If the value in the VE table for a particuliar cell is too small, then the injector in turn adds too little fuel to the cylinder. The O2's pick this up (as a lean condition) and tell the computer to add fuel over the "Long Term" to compensate for this...thus LTFT's are +25%. This is maxed out. The result is a car that is running "rich" and is way down on power. It's only "rich" because the computer is telling the injectors to dump in 25% more fuel at all times, part throttle/WOT, etc whether it needs it or not. This is also why your fuel economy sucks.

To fix you need to tune the VE table. Put the car in SD mode. Reset fuel trims. Drive for a good bit till the fuel trims settle (probably near 25%) and then start logging data. Drive the car about at part throttle (I would not suggest going WOT in your current state) and get a good 25 counts or so per cell in the LTFT and STFT histograms. Then add the two and take this adjustment as a paste full % into the VE table.

Then repeat. You'll see on the 2nd go around that the LTFT's will be WAY less. Mine went from 25% to around 10%. Keep this up (but make adjustment as paste special - 1/2%) till the LTFT's are -4 to 0. Then you can start going WOT and tuning from there.

If you have a SC do you have a 2-bar MAP sensor? You'll need one + 2-bar on the tuning program to tune properly for boost. The stock MAP sensor only registers to 1.05. With 7PSI the MAP is really at 1.50. This will make FI tuning all but a guess in "1-bar" mode.

Also, has the car been tuned (ie mail order, etc)? My problem (and how I learned all this $hit) was I got a mail order tune from a company when I added the turbo. The car was fine for a week and then was feeling like it was still NA and running like crap. Fuel economy sucked *** too and I could sniff gas from time to time at idle. When I checked my $500 mail order tune (with the copy of HP Tuners I ordered)....I rudely learned that the VE table was STOCK except for idle! Might have a similiar thing going on with your car.

Anyhow, bit long, but this should help. There are a bunch of stickies and posts on tuning. It's not hard....no tricks. Just takes time and consistency.

Good luck.