ledzepp3

iTrader: (1)

A solid answer on this topic has eluded me, but next summer I'll be doing a head/cam/intake/throttle body swap in my quest for 500HP N/A. I plan to do this on a stock bottom end, and once that starts acting up, do a build for boost.

The biggest concern with this build will be the best possible heads for this application. I've already got my eye on a cam for this (FTI Hellion), with a set of LS7 lifters. The point of this won't be to rev to the moon, but to have strong top end with the stock cube motor.

As of now, the car has long tubes/cat-back and a single piece drive shaft in it. I definitely know I'll need to do a clutch swap to something that won't cry whenever the pedal hits the floor, and the brakes will need to come up to spec too- but getting the heads/cam done first will be my top priority.

Currently, the heads I've been spying are a set of MAST 245 LS2 heads, but cylinder heads are not my area of expertise honestly. Any advice would be greatly appreciated in this department Since the cam is pretty much set in stone, all that's left is choosing the right intake manifold and throttle body. Choices for DBW cars is kind of limited, but the Nick Williams TBs look to be the best choice out there for a FAST intake. The larger FAST (102mm) would be better for top end, but if there's any downsides to that setup, I'm unaware of them at this time.

A couple other little mods might be done to the car between now and when the head/cam swap happens. New wheels (G8 GT 19's), higher-flow oil pump, suspension bushings, brake pad/fluid swap, and a little weight reduction will be in order as well.

Anyone who's got anything to help me in my quest for powah, chime in!

Thanks,
Tim

ULTIMATEORANGESS

iTrader: (4)

going with MAST and FAST 102 is a good start.



have you considered getting a custom cam?

ledzepp3

iTrader: (1)

I have, but with all the guys at local car meets who have custom cams, if there's a problem it can be difficult to troubleshoot it, especially if it's a really out there grind. For this application, the Hellion is big enough to make wicked top end power but still be small enough to not have surging problems unless the tune is 100% perfect which can be difficult with such an aggressive cam. Also with a custom grind (I've seen this first hand), the manufacturer told the guy he absolutely didn't need to check the valve clearance. If he wouldn't have, he would have destroyed pistons and valves. The Hellion already fits the criteria for a cam I'd like perfectly.

Tuskyz28

Start Here..... https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/732392-recipe-500-rwhp-heads-cam.html

nogomofo1970

Here's how I made 490 RWHP on a Mustang dyno with basic well matched parts.
PRC 225 AS Cast Heads 62cc (11.47 cr)
Stock 90mm TB
Port matched Fast 102mm
Morel link bar lifters
Manton 11/32 push rods
EDC custom cam 231/239 630ish/650ish *113
ls3 injectors
ls3 MAF (w honeycomb screen)
Ati damper (stock size)
1 3/4 dynatech headers with 3" resonators on the collectors welded to 3" kooks mids. 2.5" Borla exhaust
Stock 3.46 gears , t56 w 18lb flywheel.

I think with the Mast heads , larger stepped headers , and a well matched cam you should have no trouble exceeding my numbers.

ULTIMATEORANGESS

iTrader: (4)

damn,490 on a MD is serious power. listen to this guy.

HCI2000SS

iTrader: (2)

My buddy has a 06 goat with some Mast heads, big cam, and a ported Fast, and made 495 rwhp

ledzepp3

iTrader: (1)

I'll have to find a comparison between the MAST 245 and 275 heads, they'll both fit the LS2 block but the 275 heads utilize some of the LS3 top end design. The focus on this will be maximizing flow, so I'm gonna take after suggestions and parts listed here and port the TB and intake manifold, and get a different MAF too.

One of the other things that might help would be an UD pulley, but I've heard of people having some wicked issues with it throwing other accessories off kilter.

nogomofo1970

Id call mast if I was you! A giant port on a small displacement engine that's not seeing more thn 6800 rpm will be really lazy down low and you will hate it! Max flow is one thing but velocity is another . Bigger is not always better!

ledzepp3

iTrader: (1)

It's never a bad idea to call the manufacturer directly, which I'll probably end up doing just in case. Same goes for FTI to see what the best rockers would be for my specific application.

The only other thing which crossed my mind was that I'd also like to spray the car too. Is there any dry spray kit you guys would recommend?

ULTIMATEORANGESS

iTrader: (4)

damn,youre going for it for sure.


NX id say is good.theyre a sponsor.

ledzepp3

iTrader: (1)

Hell yes I am! This car better have some nuts to it, 415HPish doesn't cut the mustard anymore. I want this car to sound scary, sit mean, and go like hell. I'll definitely be looking into exactly how much I can safely spray onto a stock bottom with stock pistons and rings.

I'd love to get 600 with spray if it can be done safely without totally gacking my motor, since I'm only 18 I don't have heaps of cash, but just enough for this build.

MuhThugga

You shouldn't worry about trying to achieve the magical 500 number on the dyno. Everything has a trade-off, and with the factory 6.0L displacement, you are going to be trading off driveability and low-end torque in an attempt to hit that number. This means that the car is going to be an absolute chore to drive on the street, if not downright miserable, all for the sake of hitting a dyno number. If you want to get the best of the best, there is nothing wrong with that. However, in the world of cylinder head ports and camshaft specs, bigger does not equate to making more power. There is a point of diminishing returns, and that is why a lot of catalog racers lose to someone with smaller head ports and smaller cam durations. It is about the whole package. So, you can select the parts that you want, but select them with the goal of maximizing lowend torque and midrange power, because no matter what anyone says on the Internet, the car is not going to still drive like a factory car with bolt-ons on the street. If you select a camshaft that makes all of its power in the upper RPMs, then you are going to find out the true definition of cam surge, and no, it can't be fully tuned out.

On your second point about adding nitrous down the line, you're going to need to plan for one or the other. You can't build a max-effort N/A motor and then expect things to not go awry with the addition of nitrous later on. Personally, I wouldn't even worry about nitrous because I've never been a fan of having the horsepower run out with the bottle. However, if you plan on sticking with adding nitrous later on, then you need to talk to FTI and Mast and let them know your desires, because I can guarantee you that the parts list is going to change. And even then, your factory bottom end isn't guaranteed to last.

Decide exactly what you want before you start buying parts. Buying the stuff you are looking at buying is expensive enough the first go around, but it can get much, much more expensive when you start buying things two or three times over.

ledzepp3

iTrader: (1)

I'm not necessarily just chasing a number, but I'm striving to build a motor that makes power everywhere. I did manage to get a hold of MAST and they confirmed what I originally thought: the 245 heads would be the best match for a street fighter car. With those heads, the rocker options are somewhat limited with the specific size of the cam which will hopefully go into it. I've also contacted FTI, who have confirmed that with my vehicle specifications (which will be completed by the time the cam is put in) will make for better drivability in comparison to running the Hellion with a stock intake/exhaust setup.

I got to thinking about spraying the motor. Considering the risk that comes with it, I'll wait to see if I'm satisfied with the performance after the cam. I'm not expecting the bottom the hold for a super long time, but considering I drive the car pretty easy most of the time it shouldn't just immediately blow up (hopefully). Worst case is I'll end up replacing my windage tray and just check bearings while I'm taking the motor apart.

lemons12

iTrader: (71)

I'd personally do a stroker with ls3 top end and a custom cam.

Make more power everywhere and for cheaper than what you're about to do.

ledzepp3

iTrader: (1)

Haven't people lost low end torque with LS3 head swaps? That would open up a huge amount of options for intake manifolds and cylinder heads though...

MuhThugga

Making power everywhere is a lot different from trying to achieve a number. With that said, making power everywhere is a hell of a lot easier to do with more cubic inches if you plan on staying N/A.
With nitrous, remember that you aren't spraying when you are driving the car easy. The time things go awry with nitrous is at wide-open throttle unless you're that one idiot who was hitting the silly button while the engine was off and blew his motor when he started it a few years back.





That's the route I took. I have a 404 with a factory LS3 topend, and that car makes power everywhere. You don't always have to break the bank to make power. You just need to know what you want and realistically what you plan to do with the car. If you go to the drag strip once a year and cruise on the street the rest of the time, then building something that makes power from 4500 - 7000 RPMs probably isn't the wisest of decisions.

lemons12

iTrader: (71)

Ls3 top end is -all- in the cam choice as far as where it makes power. Buy a Texas speed cam.... It's gonna be a dog.

Buy one from someone who has a clue and it'll run its *** off.

With that said... It won't matter nearly as much with a stroker. Strokers make nasty low and mid range but can flow enough. To still make power up top.

I think you'd be happier taking the mast head money and buy a stroker. You could sell your motor complete... Ls3 top end is cheap... Make 500+rw and 480+torque and make it early and carry it late. Win win

ledzepp3

iTrader: (1)

In the title: "Making 500HP N/A on stock cubes."

lemons12

iTrader: (71)

Then go for it.