turbo and nitrous users
11-30-2016, 05:54 PM
#1
turbo and nitrous users Hey guys i currently have a pretty tight converter on my 5.3 80mm setup. Its hard to do burn outs and spool up takes a min. I do alot of street racing and have been thinkin of adding nitrous to help spool up. But at the same time thought why not use it for the intire run. Basicly for some additional hp if needed.
But here is what im thinking. Since im turbo fuel pressure rises with boost. Which means a standard efi wet kit jetting would be off from the 58psi rating. Meaning a rich condition on the fuel side. Would i need to add an aditional regulator to maintain the constant 58psi? Or am i over thinking this lol.
I currently have my fuel as a -8 feed to the backside of one rail, crosses over ib front and comes out back to regulator. Well i have a plug on one side port of my regualtor that im not using that i could add the other regulator to for the nitrous side.
So.....
But here is what im thinking. Since im turbo fuel pressure rises with boost. Which means a standard efi wet kit jetting would be off from the 58psi rating. Meaning a rich condition on the fuel side. Would i need to add an aditional regulator to maintain the constant 58psi? Or am i over thinking this lol.
I currently have my fuel as a -8 feed to the backside of one rail, crosses over ib front and comes out back to regulator. Well i have a plug on one side port of my regualtor that im not using that i could add the other regulator to for the nitrous side.
So.....
12-01-2016, 01:50 AM
#6
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Also in for info as I'm doing the same thing. I thought, correct if I am wrong, that as long as the regulator was after the rail and solenoid, that pressure to the rail would not be affected and that the fuel jet determined the amount of fuel delivered for the nitrous.
If the fuel solenoid activated, and it was before the regulator, wouldn't the regulator just maintain the needed pressure as if the solenoid was an additional injector?
If the fuel solenoid activated, and it was before the regulator, wouldn't the regulator just maintain the needed pressure as if the solenoid was an additional injector?
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12-01-2016, 09:04 AM
#9
Yea stock ecu hptuners. I noticed today that i had timing pulled out pretty good. I basicly had around 28 degrees in the middle area where lets say a na motor runs and thin started falling off to 16* from around .72 cyl air.
So i played back some logs and noticed im like 3 rows up from maxing at 1.20 when boost start going positive at 3600 rpm. So i maintained 28 degrees to 1.04 cyl air and start pulling to around 20* at 7 psi and 16* around 10psi. Basicly maintaining 16* on the very last row of 1.20 from 4800rpm to redline.. I originally had timing around 16* around .96 row up from max. So baaicly when i was tryin to make power i was pulling the power out by killing timing.
So i played back some logs and noticed im like 3 rows up from maxing at 1.20 when boost start going positive at 3600 rpm. So i maintained 28 degrees to 1.04 cyl air and start pulling to around 20* at 7 psi and 16* around 10psi. Basicly maintaining 16* on the very last row of 1.20 from 4800rpm to redline.. I originally had timing around 16* around .96 row up from max. So baaicly when i was tryin to make power i was pulling the power out by killing timing.
Last edited by brandon6.0; 12-01-2016 at 09:14 AM.
12-01-2016, 10:42 AM
#10
TECH Enthusiast
I'm not looking at HP tuners so I don't know.
You need to keep timing in it down low to help it come up on the converter/transbrake.
Right where it starts to build a psi or two is when you start to pull the timing back out to the launching RPM/Timing
You need to keep timing in it down low to help it come up on the converter/transbrake.
Right where it starts to build a psi or two is when you start to pull the timing back out to the launching RPM/Timing
12-01-2016, 01:05 PM
#14
I used my methanol pump with 100% meth as my nitrous fuel for my under blower spray bar setup. Spraying a 150 shot right now and it works pretty good. The truck is mainly a street cruiser and I didnt want to mess with another fuel system. Its a bit tricky as the meth pump operates at 150-200psi range, but just have to be jetted smaller.
If your fuel nozzle is before the turbo yes it will be rich, but if the fuel nozzle sees boost the regulator will keep the pressure constant.
If your fuel nozzle is before the turbo yes it will be rich, but if the fuel nozzle sees boost the regulator will keep the pressure constant.
12-01-2016, 01:34 PM
#16
Overthinking it. Just add 50-100 shot. Then step up or down the fuel and nitrous pills as necessary to get your AFR in check. You can also hand drill the nitrous jet slightly larger with some carb jet bits until your AFR is in check.
I'd suggest using it only to spool the turbo and shutting it off. Boost adds less heat in the CC than nitrous. Turn the boost up if you want more power and use the nitrous to get up on the converter. Bottle lasts forever that way too. I'd set it up to turn on slightly under your max NA stall point. Then turn off at "X" boost pressure.
Also be careful with how quickly you make boost at really low RPM with a tight converter. Good way to bend rods.
I'd suggest using it only to spool the turbo and shutting it off. Boost adds less heat in the CC than nitrous. Turn the boost up if you want more power and use the nitrous to get up on the converter. Bottle lasts forever that way too. I'd set it up to turn on slightly under your max NA stall point. Then turn off at "X" boost pressure.
Also be careful with how quickly you make boost at really low RPM with a tight converter. Good way to bend rods.
12-02-2016, 05:32 AM
#18
TECH Enthusiast
If the combo was optimized correctly, wouldn't need to spray it to come up on the brake.
Better get the tune up right before you start hosing it.. or you'll be needing a broom, dust pan and a mop to clean up the mess.
What converter/stator is in it?
If it were mine I'd be getting the car to come up on the brake somewhat reasonable quick before adding more things to over complicate it.
Better get the tune up right before you start hosing it.. or you'll be needing a broom, dust pan and a mop to clean up the mess.
What converter/stator is in it?
If it were mine I'd be getting the car to come up on the brake somewhat reasonable quick before adding more things to over complicate it.
12-02-2016, 08:26 AM
#19
I think nitrous defiantly has its place. Lets you run a turbo that’s normally too large to spool with a tight converter. Which can let you run 1:1 (or better) back pressure ratios and a more aggressive cam. Also less slip during the run and while street driving. Win-win IMO.
IMO for a street car (esp. when roll racing) its beneficial to have a super tight converter. I was in a similar situation as the OP running the PTC 9.5” with a 14 stator in it. I had it spec’d for my 370” engine that wasn’t going to be ready until the following year. I ran a cam only 4.8 to finish the season just for fun. Barely made 1psi in 30+ seconds. Tried -17* to +40* and lean to rich AFR etc. Eventually got it to make 4psi with an aggressive 2 step and 40-50 seconds. When I released the brake it fell on its face. This was on a S476 1.25 T4. 2.5” hot side.
Installed a 60 shot. Active for less than 2 seconds. Had it setup to come on at 3250 and off at 3600. Immediately made 6lbs and once it got over that little hump it made boost on its own. Left the line at 12lbs with the nitrous off. At 19lbs the shift drop was 1800rpm! Under 2-3% slip up top, felt like a lock up converter. Car drove great, managed 19mpg on e85 cruising 50. Was going 9.0 @ 151 on 19psi @ 3000lbs, 1.4x 60’s. Could drive it anywhere.
FWIW later in the season I went form an LS1 to LS6 intake and ditched the cheap china IC for a Treadstone. It made boost on its own without the nitrous then.
IMO for a street car (esp. when roll racing) its beneficial to have a super tight converter. I was in a similar situation as the OP running the PTC 9.5” with a 14 stator in it. I had it spec’d for my 370” engine that wasn’t going to be ready until the following year. I ran a cam only 4.8 to finish the season just for fun. Barely made 1psi in 30+ seconds. Tried -17* to +40* and lean to rich AFR etc. Eventually got it to make 4psi with an aggressive 2 step and 40-50 seconds. When I released the brake it fell on its face. This was on a S476 1.25 T4. 2.5” hot side.
Installed a 60 shot. Active for less than 2 seconds. Had it setup to come on at 3250 and off at 3600. Immediately made 6lbs and once it got over that little hump it made boost on its own. Left the line at 12lbs with the nitrous off. At 19lbs the shift drop was 1800rpm! Under 2-3% slip up top, felt like a lock up converter. Car drove great, managed 19mpg on e85 cruising 50. Was going 9.0 @ 151 on 19psi @ 3000lbs, 1.4x 60’s. Could drive it anywhere.
FWIW later in the season I went form an LS1 to LS6 intake and ditched the cheap china IC for a Treadstone. It made boost on its own without the nitrous then.