mastercoryd

iTrader: (3)

hey guys, on a f body ls1 camaro i want to put a suspension setup in it that is nice and low but can also handle for those track days i want to go to (road track not a drag strip). On my research I came up with the koni/strano setup being the best. But I kinda want my car a little lower then the strano springs are. I want like no much more then an inch of fender gap. From what i hear the only real good springs for handling are the strano's but I would like it lower, is my only choice to run them and get ground control coilover sleeves? thanks alot

Flaring Afro

that or g2 springs. your only 2.

SOMbitch

iTrader: (8)

Trust me that if you want to drive you car on the street Stranos are plenty low.

If you wanna go lower LG G2's + Konis are the only thing I would even consider.

Well... GC's too.....

tpunk

iTrader: (8)

GC's don't work with strano's, they use their own springs that you can spec the rates with (strano's rates are 550/150). I think Sam still sells GC's but I'm not sure. Giving him a call is always a good idea for stuff like this.

mastercoryd

iTrader: (3)

If I bought the g2 springs you think I could run them on stock shocks for a little until I save up for the rest of the suspension or you think It will bottom out easy?

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

Could you? Yes... but they are about twice as stiff as stock springs, and even shorter which means the shocks have to try and damp that extra rate in even less travel.

Taller and/or softer springs espeically in the back require less damping to work "better".

And you have to decide on what you want. Wanting it low, or having it work.

And shocks don't stop the car from "bottoming". You will make contact with the bumpstops with G2 springs, my spirngs, or any other spring, including stock. The shocks effect how hard and fast the suspension moves, not how much.

99345hp

Airride is probably your best option. Its pricey, but will give you everything you want. We have a TA at work with airride, and it has been on autocross and even competed in the airride street challenge.

SOMbitch

iTrader: (8)

I know!!!.... You can any run any rate and height you desire with GC. The rear springs have a tendancy to drop out of the pockets when you jack it up though. PIA

Thanks for enlightening me Einstein

99345hp

Yeah you can adjust the the coilovers, but what a PITA. You can adjust airride with a button.

Consider this situation. You are cruising along nice and low, and you come to a driveway that is steep. If you are riding on coilovers you cant raise the car up to drive in there. If you have airride its as simple as raising the car and driving on in. Then when you get clear the driveway you can lower it back down.

JD_AMG

Doesn't it require you to remove the air to lower the car and effectively lower the "spring" rate then, and visa versa?
Thats the exact opposite of what you want for performance...
While you can auto-x any car with any setup, that doesn't mean that particular setup will be competitive or enjoyable to drive hard.

99345hp

When the suspension is at "rideheight" the bags have a pretty good amount of air in them. This rideheight is lower probably 1.5" below stock, but you still have the ability to go higher if you need to clear an obsticle.

tpunk

iTrader: (8)

I was refering to this post. To me it sounded like he wanted to get strano springs with GC sleeves. Does it not?

Wasn't for you buddy. Don't see why you responded like that but really don't care either.

As for air ride, yes it is probably a nicer way to go but there is a major price difference between that and GC's. The nice thing is if you realize that riding that low isn't for you you won't have to get new springs again, just adjust the ride height. Air ride is easier to adjust but how often are you planning on adjusting it (plus it's not that hard, just not as simple as a button ).

Flaring Afro

the problem with gcs is, if you decide you want a 2" drop, you will need them stiffer than g2s, according to strano who knows his stuff, so if you decided to raise, you'd still have a rough ride.

another option would be true coilovers. then you dont have to buy separate shocks and still a lot cheaper than airride. i've never looked at how they would be 2" low though. on my old car there were some, i think it was called k-sport, and they were only $700 for the set. thats cheaper than konis and springs, and its fully adjustable. they might cost more for our cars though, or not exist at all.

EDIT: just went to their site. they don't have coilovers for our car, but if you emailed them you might be able to get them to make some, since our market is huge, much bigger than the old car (ford probe/mazda mx6).

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

Ok, before we get out of control here, since I'm seeing name calling and the like starting. I think it's time to actually kick out a few facts because this is getting way off track IMO.

First--Air suspension. Expensive which is funny when folks complain about Koni's. Added weight. But the biggest issues are very simple. Crappy shocks, and "springs" that lose spring rate as you let air out to lower the car. Exactly the opposite of what should happen when you lower the car. You need spring rate to support the car unless you want to make the bumpstops the defacto springs. Further, everytime you change the ride height the alignment changes. So you can't just go down 1.5" today and back up @ 4 pm because your camber and toe will change massively. And a screwed up alignment doens't do the car any good as far as driveability, let alone tire wear. Any time you make a ride height change that is going to be driven on, you need a front end alignment. And what's more, air ride type systems do no magically make travel or geometry issues disappear. Sorry.

As for K-sport type coil-overs. They don't exist for this car, and even when they do they are not in the same league as Koni dampers. More like AGX's, and if someone were to do AGX's and GC's, they'd be looking at around $850... not a lot of distance, relatively to Koni's and good lowering springs. I can tell you which will work better as the shocks are the foundation to how the car works.

I think I said it before, and I'll say it again. You need to decide what you want. "Low" as in lower than about 1.2-1.3", or a suspension that works right. You can't have both here, there are limitations in too many things. I want to live in a huge house, but have the gas, electric, water bills and Mortgage payment of a Studio Apartment.... ain't likely to happen.

99345hp

Sam I understand everything you said, and I know all of that about the spring rate and alignment. You know your stuff, so im not saying your completely wrong. but im telling you that the TA we have at work is on airride, and it handles way better than my car. When they took it to the airride street challenge there was a camaro there that had lowering springs and good shocks on it. People took turns with it on the autocross, then they swapped everything for airride. Everyone that drove it both ways liked the way it handled with airride better.

JD_AMG

Ok, so whats done to your car? You have no suspension mods listed, so are you saying it out handles a stock suspension fbody? Thats not saying much at all...

What springs and shocks did the car previously have? Do you have any proof of what you are saying?
Other than using simple logic to tell that air ride is flawed(the fact that when you lower the car with air ride you loose spring rate) you can look at all the other 4th gen race cars out there. I have yet to see one using air ride, if it were truly a superior system wouldn't they have it?

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

Those aren't exactly specifics, and details matter. To begin with it's not hard to make a car better than stock, or an otherwise messed up setup with the wrong aftermarket parts.

We've probably all see the episode of Horsepower TV where the 4th gen was compared before and after with "Air Ride". But did anyone notice that the car wasn't at all low in the front? That means the bags were pretty pumped up (i.e. more spring rate). And the rear was lower which drops the rear roll center and stabilizes the tail. Both of which would significantly help the car. Will I argue the car wasn't "better"? Nope, but better doesn't equal great, only better than the starting point. A V-8 running on 6 cylinders will be better on 7.... but not right.

As for the Camaro they had with springs and good shocks on it? What were they, the shocks and the springs? Lots of folks think all kinds of things are good when they really aren't. Look at the folks that think Sportlines rock if you need an example.

mastercoryd

iTrader: (3)

ok, so i understand you can't have the best of both worlds, but im trying to find a happy medium here for loooks (low) and good handling, do you think I could reach this goal by running koni shocks with g2 springs, i know they sacrifice a little performance but how much compared to the strano's, thanks for all the help everyone, sorry im such a noob here

99Bluz28

iTrader: (35)

I don't know about running airsprings front and rear, but I run them in the rear(manual air valves) with Edelbrock IAS shocks and compared to koni's with Eibach pro-kit rear springs, or with K.B. rear hypercoils springs it handles damn good!

In the front I currently running IAS shocks with Hypercoil 600 lb.in. springs.

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

And what are you running for rear springs now?

To lay the cards out as I see them, you went from too low and too soft with the Pro-kit to what I feel is too stiff on the Hypercoils in the back. And you can't just slap on Koni's and say good enough, the damping has to be tuned to work for the use and your liking.. where were you running Koni's anyway? And a shock can't cover for a messed up spring, and I think you had two extremes where, for instance, my springs are more down the middle.

And why do you have Hypercoil 600's in front? The Edelbrocks come with Eibach ERS fronts (and not rears, they want you to buy Eibach rear springs). I sell Edelbrock too, but I don't move hardly any because the seutp is just screwy. A fair amount of buck for dampers you have no chance to play with thie forces on, and the fact the fronts are cool as they are factory coil-overs, but we're left out in the cold on the rear. It's just not an easy, cohesive set to get on a car, and frankly I think leaves some on the table.