Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

This will become a multi-part thread, this is simply part 1.


I spend a lot of my time discussing details with customers. I don't mind, and in fact sometimes even like it! But I thought maybe it would be a good idea to lay out a path of what I need to know to help you. This won't cover everything, and i'll do so in steps over time. Stay tuned for more installments down the road.

Today, we start with the very basic stuff. First and foremost I never forget that this isn't my car. Because it's your car what matter most is that we fix what you want fixed. However, I find this is one of the biggest stumbling blocks for people. They don't know, or at least don't think they know (but really do).

So where do we start? Simple. Pretend that your car isn't your car. In fact pretend you have never driven it, or even better that it belongs to someone you really don't like and you are looking for things to tear apart. smile emoticon Then make a list of what the car does that you don't like. No engineering terms, no fancy chassis setup talk.

Of course, some detail is needed but details like "it rides like crap" or "it feels all squishy" or it "feels floppy" are all descriptions that tell me a LOT about what is going on and is far, far more helpful than "I want my car to handle better", which is what I hear most commonly every single day I'm at work. I suspect that was the reason for the call, and I want that for you too. Trust me I want you to be happy. Happy customers recommend Shops like mine to others they know when they are happy!!!

To sum this up. If you have a car and you want to make it better, the place to start is by identifying what it is you don't like, that is Step #1.
Next time I'll talk about some other details that help me help you pick the best items for your use.

01Z0H6

iTrader: (63)

My 99 SS Vert rides terrible, squishy, clunky with the Bilstein's, Eibach kit (Came this way when purchased). and it's all brand new w < 100 mi on it.... I am guessing the previous owner did not take into consideration that it was a vert and was heavier than the t-top, hard top cars....

Koni STRT, Strano springs fix this?

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

Don't guess. That's the worst thing folks do. Assumptions make for terrible results.

Which Eibach kit? See, there is more than one, and even some that are made by Eibach but aren't sold by them. And folks *guess* those are the same as something else.

And there are a lot of other things. What else is on the car? LCA changes? Wheels and tires? (heavier wheels wreck things in a hurry). Overpressured tires hurt a tremendous amount as well.

The car is a system, and I need to know what else is going on in that system first.

Would my springs and STR.T's fix it? I think they could help, but I'm not sure. Because your description is kind of hard to follow. Squishy, ok better dampers would help there, but the STR.T's are massively firmer on rebound than Bilstein's but some. My issue is with the "clunky" and general "rides terrible". Need more detail on that first.

And while the Eibach's aren't the best springs overall, some aren't so bad... some are really bad. It's not because the car is a convertible that these issues are around.

01Z0H6

iTrader: (63)

Sam,
I was vague... so allow me to elaborate.
As I said, this car came with these and they are brand new... The springs are the black ones, so the Pro Kit. The car also has ( all brand new) BMR Weld in SFC's, BMR adj LCA's, BMR adj phr,, Sphon rear sway bar, BMR front upper control arms....
The logical thing to do would be to purchase the BMR lowering springs so everything would match. However, I have used YOUR lowering springs on every Fbody that I have owned,. Have never had the Koni's though. Also running 17x11 ZR1's out back w 315's.

This is my first Vert so was unsure of feel of the car. Hence my question to you.

The car rides terrible, squishy,clunky on rough roads... Rides, drives very nice on open hwy.

How's that for clarification?

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

Okay now we are getting somewhere and that's quite different than if all those things "additional" were stock.

First things that sticks out in my head given your complaints are the LCA's, maybe the PHB and rear bar. Still not sure if "clunky" means a clunky noise or if it's some kind of descriptor about the car feeling out of kilter. If it's a noise thing and you have rod-ended parts that's part of it.

Now, the LCA's. What type? Poly bushed at both ends. One end, if so what's the other end? About the worst arms you can do are boxed or tubular with poly at both ends, because nothing wants to let the axle articulate and it needs to or it will yank the body around, a lot.

And the Spohn bar.. which one? See more things that matter. if it's the 22mm okay other than it's heavier than it needs to be, or the 25mm which is stiffer than you want and also makes the ride suffer more on uneven surfaces.

The logical thing wouldn't have been those springs, given that this idea that just because someone puts their name on things they know how to make it all work together. You've had my springs which I presume you liked since you asked about them again, and those are cheapo copies. But they run a big 25mm rear bar like the bigger Spohn bar (the one I just told you is too big).

Yes it's nice to think that when everything is all the same brand it would all just work exactly right, but things don't work that way in real life. I have some parts I make for this car that are more suitable for certain situations (various rear bars).

So when did the ride go to hell? Or did you make the mistake of putting all this on at once? If not I assume the springs and shocks were on before?

Long story short, maybe it's the springs, but even knowing they are Prokits isn't enough. Which ones? LS1, LT1? One of two V-6 versions? I mean there are 4 Prokits it *could* be. Logic dictates it's the LS1 set, but I can't know that and early on there was no LS1 set so everyone used the LT1's (which are better btw). But folks also buy stuff used and online so they could be something else.

I rely on you guys and gals to give me the skinny about what is going on and what parts on are the cars. Maybe you see it as pedantic to ask which Prokit (hope not, but some do) but it matters, a lot, to figure this out. I could take the easy way, pat you on the back and say "yeah, STR.T's and my springs will fix this". They might, but I can't know that YET given how much is changed and what we still don't know.

This is why I started this thread. I spend way to much time trying to sort through this and explain it to 75% of the folks I talk to. If you know it before it helps everyone with the process and speeds things up, and then I don't have ask so many questions.

Specifically, what parts are on the car? You skipped the question about the tires (size, brand/model and pressures) and the wheels. All of which plays in.

I am NOT your typical parts pusher. There are plenty of them in the world an on this forum too. I want the stuff to work, and I'm putting my name on it.

01Z0H6

iTrader: (63)

I just bought the car.... ALL of this stuff was already installed... therefore, I don't know which brand Pro Kit, What mm sway bar, etc.... The previous owner installed ALL of these parts prior to me purchasing it and they have < 200 mi.... It's as if he just threw parts on the car.... Personally, I have always used the tubular non adjustable lca's, and adj phr, and your springs w Bilstien HD's and have NEVER had a problem. I am tempted to remove all of these things and sell them and start all over.... clunky is when driving over bumps.. Again to be clear it rides, drives great when on the hwy... No complaints. It's when I am driving slow over bumps and uneven surfaces that the is rocking back and forth and bottoming out.. running 17x11 ZR1's w Nitto 555's 30lbs... That is the best description that I can give... Thank you for your time.

bad_408_vert

iTrader: (6)

1zOh6 - my 2001 convertible has same issues as yours.
It's on entirely stock suspension except the Monroe shocks.

01Z0H6

iTrader: (63)

oh snap..... Perhaps it's a Vert thing.... Gonna take this to the Vert section and inquire w some of those guys.

I will be buying some different springs for sure!!

Tracer Bullet

iTrader: (2)

So, what's the benefit of going over to an aftermarket panhard bar? Seems like a waste if the bushings in the stocker are still good.

And before anybody says anything, yes my car is lowered and it's perfectly fine with a stock panhard bar clearance wise.

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

Slow down guys.

Not a 'vert thing. Same car, same chassis, car was built knowing they were going to be convertibles, they just add some extra bracing back to the bottom vs. hard and t-top cars.

The Monroe shocks, SUCK. And the original questioner has some other issues I was addressing. Remember where I said "don't assume"? Well, here we are.

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

If you want to just dump stuff you aren't sure of that's your choice. But it's not really hard to find what springs they are or what size bars. But that's your choice to try and find the part numbers and measure the diameter of the bar.

Now honestly I have a whole different group of descriptors. Bottoming out? That's not one you said before. And rocking back and forth? Still don't know if clunky was a noise or what.

This is where I diverge from others. I am *SURE* when you said that you are willing to just start over, that other shops here coins jingling. Where as I, being maybe not as smart as I should be want to get this right and HELP you save anything that *might* be useful or not the problem. But I can only do so much with the information I'm getting here.

I'm trying to help, but I can't do much more without talking to you at this point.

01Z0H6

iTrader: (63)

How bout I call you to discuss.... 814-849-3450

Tracer Bullet

iTrader: (2)

Besides this question, how badly will a short tunnel mount torque arm effect handling/hard braking

79_T/A

iTrader: (1)

I can't think of anything that has a more negative impact for braking than a short torque arm. It places the instant center too far towards the rear of the car, causing axle hop under hard braking. In steady state handling, it won't have any effect, it also might help put power down out of corners. Those small benefits don't outweigh the horrible braking characteristics it will cause.

Tracer Bullet

iTrader: (2)

So, probably not the best idea for a car that may see an occasional autocross or two eh?

dailydriver

No it is not, as it is really a drag race (ONLY, even though many many use it on the street in drag race oriented rides) item.

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

Sure. I only ask that when and if it comes time to buy something you remember where you got the best information.

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

Not good. Avoid short torque arms for performance driving (handling/braking) use. Also not good on floor pans, if you have one you damn well better have 3 point SFC's that pick up the tunnel mount where the short TA's attach (which is just sheetmetal).

STANG KILLA SS 2

iTrader: (6)

can you comment on how the rates compare of your rear sway bars?
adjustable vs non adjustable 22mm?

ie is the soft setting firmer or softer than the non adjustable?
and sorta along the same lines/ same answer is the firm setting firmer or softer than the non adjustable?



i LOVE the balance of the SS bars. just right for how i have the car setup (road course and AX track car, no street)
but i need more overall rate, but want the balance the same.
according to my calculations your 35/22 has a tiny bit more balance towards oversteer vs the stock 32/19 SS bars. (about 6%) assuming your front and rear wall thickness's are the same.
(Hotchkis bars appear to be about a 18% shift towards oversteer compared to SS bars)

just curious if the rear adjustable bar was overall stiffer or softer than the non adjustable bar.

trying to decide which of the 3 options to order from you.

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

The Adjustable rear bar is the same material and size tubing the standard rear bar is but uses a different endlink arrangement. The bar at soft is pretty much just what the standard bar is, and then gets a bit stiffer from there.

If you have a staggered wheel/tire setup or a Watts link an lowered Roll center then you want a bit more rear bar than if you have a matched setup and/or a standard RC height. But no, the front and rear bar thicknesses are NOT the same. Assumptions, hate 'em. Rear bar is a thinner wall tube than the front.

And I'm with you on the 32/19 balance it's not bad and I didn't want to run away from that basis which WHY I stagger my wall thickness on the bars.

Which to order is simple. Not Hotchkis as it's too much in the rear I think we both know that. Then you need only decide if you want to have adjustment on the rear to have to option to tune the car a little further and/or for different conditions or parts (like tires, etc).