Astros to Bagwell: Please go away
01-11-2006, 06:49 PM
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It would be nice if the Astros could trade Bagwell to the Red Sox so he could play for the team he grew idolizing as a DH. Even if Houston got zero in return and could ship him off just to not have to pay him the $17mil he's owed this year it would be a good deal.
Unfortunately, from what I understand if the Astros trade Bags they're still responsible for the bulk of his contract even if he's not playing for them. It looks like we're stuck with his baggage (contract) for one more year, which prohibits a team on a very tight budget from pursuing other high caliber players.
Unfortunately, from what I understand if the Astros trade Bags they're still responsible for the bulk of his contract even if he's not playing for them. It looks like we're stuck with his baggage (contract) for one more year, which prohibits a team on a very tight budget from pursuing other high caliber players.
01-11-2006, 06:57 PM
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Honestly, its the Astros fault for giving Bags that kind of contract in the first place... I hope he stays and is able to make a comeback..... Giving Bagwell 17 million at his age with no stipulations on injury is no ones fault but the Stros management, now they just have to make the best of it and quit whining....
The real travesty is resigning someone who cant hit, like Morgan Ensberg....
The real travesty is resigning someone who cant hit, like Morgan Ensberg....
01-11-2006, 09:24 PM
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Originally Posted by mmiller
It would be nice if the Astros could trade Bagwell to the Red Sox so he could play for the team he grew idolizing as a DH. Even if Houston got zero in return and could ship him off just to not have to pay him the $17mil he's owed this year it would be a good deal.
Unfortunately, from what I understand if the Astros trade Bags they're still responsible for the bulk of his contract even if he's not playing for them. It looks like we're stuck with his baggage (contract) for one more year, which prohibits a team on a very tight budget from pursuing other high caliber players.
Unfortunately, from what I understand if the Astros trade Bags they're still responsible for the bulk of his contract even if he's not playing for them. It looks like we're stuck with his baggage (contract) for one more year, which prohibits a team on a very tight budget from pursuing other high caliber players.
Whether Bagwell plays or doesn't play makes little difference in Uncle Drayton pursuing high caliber players. This is not the NFL, there is no set limit on what Drayton's payroll can be. Bagwell deserves every bit of this years salary that was promised to him (be it 17MM from the club or 15.6MM from insurance)... he is a Houston icon and it disgusts me to see all these Astro "fans" flushing him down the toilet like a turd.
True fans hope that Bagwell can play this coming season and be productive, and hold faith in that he is a great person and has always shown he is willing to do what is in the best interest of the team. He has always offered to take a hit in his salary to make room for new players. He is not the kind of guy that is going to go out there and embarrass himself and the team if he cannot play. Why would he? He is going to get paid regardless. He isn't one to say he can do something and not be able to deliver... if he can't play, he'll retire. He is a Houston Astro legend, he deserves to make this decision by himself.
People need to lighten up on him. Everyone is acting like his 17MM check for next season is coming out of their pockets for ****'s sake.
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01-12-2006, 08:15 AM
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Ross, if Bagwell truly had the best interest of the team he would retire, and yes his salary DOES limit the Astros in pursuing other high profile players. I understand that there is no salary cap in MLB, but Drayton has his ultra-tight budget for player's salaries, and Baggy's salary eats up a huge chunk of that. Uncle Drayton is upset that he paid Bags $17mil last year for nothing and he's trying to find a way to not have to end up flushing another $17mil down the drain for no productivity.
It just comes off as Baggy wanting nothing more than to cash a check with him hanging on, when obviously he's done, and everyone, including himself knows he's done. He should have retired after last year with dignity and allowed the Astro's organization to rightfully honor him. He's only embarrassing himself they way he's hanging on.
It just comes off as Baggy wanting nothing more than to cash a check with him hanging on, when obviously he's done, and everyone, including himself knows he's done. He should have retired after last year with dignity and allowed the Astro's organization to rightfully honor him. He's only embarrassing himself they way he's hanging on.
01-12-2006, 09:25 AM
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.... I was under the impression if he retired due to injury that the astros would recover 15 mil and change. This is due to an insurance policy they had on Bagwell. If they trade him they are not able to recover the 15 mil. If he retires he gets paid and the org. recovers most of their money.
Originally Posted by mmiller
Ross, if Bagwell truly had the best interest of the team he would retire, and yes his salary DOES limit the Astros in pursuing other high profile players. I understand that there is no salary cap in MLB, but Drayton has his ultra-tight budget for player's salaries, and Baggy's salary eats up a huge chunk of that. Uncle Drayton is upset that he paid Bags $17mil last year for nothing and he's trying to find a way to not have to end up flushing another $17mil down the drain for no productivity.
It just comes off as Baggy wanting nothing more than to cash a check with him hanging on, when obviously he's done, and everyone, including himself knows he's done. He should have retired after last year with dignity and allowed the Astro's organization to rightfully honor him. He's only embarrassing himself they way he's hanging on.
It just comes off as Baggy wanting nothing more than to cash a check with him hanging on, when obviously he's done, and everyone, including himself knows he's done. He should have retired after last year with dignity and allowed the Astro's organization to rightfully honor him. He's only embarrassing himself they way he's hanging on.
Last edited by ESR; 01-12-2006 at 09:33 AM.
01-12-2006, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by ross87t
I hope he comes back this season and hits .280+ with 80+ RBIs and 20+ HRs then all of you can jump back on the nut-hugging wagon.
Even a Bagwell at 70% is better than 75% of MLB batters.
Even a Bagwell at 70% is better than 75% of MLB batters.
Quit dreaming about Bags coming back and putting up any kind of impressive numbers. All of the cheerleading from the Bagwell fans won't make the reality of his injury any better. Unfortunately, he's done as a productive baseball player. I've always been a fan of his and don't dislike the guy. It's just the business of the game, thats all.
01-12-2006, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by mmiller
Yeah, and I hope Vince Young comes back to Texas and wins the Heisman and another national championship, lol.
Quit dreaming about Bags coming back and putting up any kind of impressive numbers. All of the cheerleading from the Bagwell fans won't make the reality of his injury any better. Unfortunately, he's done as a productive baseball player. I've always been a fan of his and don't dislike the guy. It's just the business of the game, thats all.
Quit dreaming about Bags coming back and putting up any kind of impressive numbers. All of the cheerleading from the Bagwell fans won't make the reality of his injury any better. Unfortunately, he's done as a productive baseball player. I've always been a fan of his and don't dislike the guy. It's just the business of the game, thats all.
01-12-2006, 03:58 PM
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I have little doubt that he can come back and be a .250+ hitter, but the questions about his power remain.
Top of the 9th, Astros leading by one run.
Man on third.
One out.
Ground ball hit sharply to first.
Runner on third breaks for home because he knows Bagwell can't throw.
Bagwell either:
A) throws it to the pitcher to relay home,
B) lets the run score and goes for the out at first, or
C) tries to throw the ball home and watches as it lands 25' from where he threw it. Run scores and the runner at first is safe.
In reality, the blame lies squarely on Drayton and Hunsicker (more Drayton, I'd bet) for giving Bagwell a long-term deal a few years ago. They're paying him now for the performance he had in 1998. I won't begrudge him the paycheck. If I were unable to do my job to the best of my abilities and there was $17million at stake, you better your fancy *** I'd be showing up to collect my paycheck. The difference is, I'd be fired and replaced by someone better capable of doing the job. Sports contracts are totally different from what we see in the "real world".
From an Astros' fan perspective, I hope he retires. It's the best thing for this team's future, because as the lineup stands now, he's taking up a roster spot that can be used by someone younger.
From a Bagwell fan perspective, I hope he can come back and be somewhat productive. In reality, I just don't see this happening. He's not going to Cooperstown (even though he has the stats, if you look at him vs. other first basemen since WWII), and one or two more seasons of him out there struggling through the season is not going to get him any more votes. It will only hurt his chances.
-Mike
Top of the 9th, Astros leading by one run.
Man on third.
One out.
Ground ball hit sharply to first.
Runner on third breaks for home because he knows Bagwell can't throw.
Bagwell either:
A) throws it to the pitcher to relay home,
B) lets the run score and goes for the out at first, or
C) tries to throw the ball home and watches as it lands 25' from where he threw it. Run scores and the runner at first is safe.
In reality, the blame lies squarely on Drayton and Hunsicker (more Drayton, I'd bet) for giving Bagwell a long-term deal a few years ago. They're paying him now for the performance he had in 1998. I won't begrudge him the paycheck. If I were unable to do my job to the best of my abilities and there was $17million at stake, you better your fancy *** I'd be showing up to collect my paycheck. The difference is, I'd be fired and replaced by someone better capable of doing the job. Sports contracts are totally different from what we see in the "real world".
From an Astros' fan perspective, I hope he retires. It's the best thing for this team's future, because as the lineup stands now, he's taking up a roster spot that can be used by someone younger.
From a Bagwell fan perspective, I hope he can come back and be somewhat productive. In reality, I just don't see this happening. He's not going to Cooperstown (even though he has the stats, if you look at him vs. other first basemen since WWII), and one or two more seasons of him out there struggling through the season is not going to get him any more votes. It will only hurt his chances.
-Mike
01-12-2006, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by chupr0kabra
I have little doubt that he can come back and be a .250+ hitter, but the questions about his power remain.
Top of the 9th, Astros leading by one run.
Man on third.
One out.
Ground ball hit sharply to first.
Runner on third breaks for home because he knows Bagwell can't throw.
Bagwell either:
A) throws it to the pitcher to relay home,
B) lets the run score and goes for the out at first, or
C) tries to throw the ball home and watches as it lands 25' from where he threw it. Run scores and the runner at first is safe.
In reality, the blame lies squarely on Drayton and Hunsicker (more Drayton, I'd bet) for giving Bagwell a long-term deal a few years ago. They're paying him now for the performance he had in 1998. I won't begrudge him the paycheck. If I were unable to do my job to the best of my abilities and there was $17million at stake, you better your fancy *** I'd be showing up to collect my paycheck. The difference is, I'd be fired and replaced by someone better capable of doing the job. Sports contracts are totally different from what we see in the "real world".
From an Astros' fan perspective, I hope he retires. It's the best thing for this team's future, because as the lineup stands now, he's taking up a roster spot that can be used by someone younger.
From a Bagwell fan perspective, I hope he can come back and be somewhat productive. In reality, I just don't see this happening. He's not going to Cooperstown (even though he has the stats, if you look at him vs. other first basemen since WWII), and one or two more seasons of him out there struggling through the season is not going to get him any more votes. It will only hurt his chances.
-Mike
Top of the 9th, Astros leading by one run.
Man on third.
One out.
Ground ball hit sharply to first.
Runner on third breaks for home because he knows Bagwell can't throw.
Bagwell either:
A) throws it to the pitcher to relay home,
B) lets the run score and goes for the out at first, or
C) tries to throw the ball home and watches as it lands 25' from where he threw it. Run scores and the runner at first is safe.
In reality, the blame lies squarely on Drayton and Hunsicker (more Drayton, I'd bet) for giving Bagwell a long-term deal a few years ago. They're paying him now for the performance he had in 1998. I won't begrudge him the paycheck. If I were unable to do my job to the best of my abilities and there was $17million at stake, you better your fancy *** I'd be showing up to collect my paycheck. The difference is, I'd be fired and replaced by someone better capable of doing the job. Sports contracts are totally different from what we see in the "real world".
From an Astros' fan perspective, I hope he retires. It's the best thing for this team's future, because as the lineup stands now, he's taking up a roster spot that can be used by someone younger.
From a Bagwell fan perspective, I hope he can come back and be somewhat productive. In reality, I just don't see this happening. He's not going to Cooperstown (even though he has the stats, if you look at him vs. other first basemen since WWII), and one or two more seasons of him out there struggling through the season is not going to get him any more votes. It will only hurt his chances.
-Mike
Mike, go to the front of the class. You "get it". You're 100% on the money.
Its hard to have a rational conversation about this with some people who are blinded by their loyalty to Bagwell and who are so much in awe of him that it prevents them from seeing how much of a liability he and his contract are to the team.
Last year was the "loyalty" year from the Astros to Jeff. This year, for the good of the team, A) Bagwell should either retire, B) the Astros should some how, some way get rid of him via a trade or some other method, or C) the Astros should pursue the insurance claim angle and try to collect a big chunk of his '06 salary that way due to his debilitating injury
I'm looking forward to 2006. Go Astros!
Last edited by mmiller; 01-12-2006 at 05:23 PM.
01-13-2006, 06:21 PM
#19
Originally Posted by mmiller
B I N G O !
Mike, go to the front of the class. You "get it". You're 100% on the money.
Its hard to have a rational conversation about this with some people who are blinded by their loyalty to Bagwell and who are so much in awe of him that it prevents them from seeing how much of a liability he and his contract are to the team.
Last year was the "loyalty" year from the Astros to Jeff. This year, for the good of the team, A) Bagwell should either retire, B) the Astros should some how, some way get rid of him via a trade or some other method, or C) the Astros should pursue the insurance claim angle and try to collect a big chunk of his '06 salary that way due to his debilitating injury
I'm looking forward to 2006. Go Astros!
Mike, go to the front of the class. You "get it". You're 100% on the money.
Its hard to have a rational conversation about this with some people who are blinded by their loyalty to Bagwell and who are so much in awe of him that it prevents them from seeing how much of a liability he and his contract are to the team.
Last year was the "loyalty" year from the Astros to Jeff. This year, for the good of the team, A) Bagwell should either retire, B) the Astros should some how, some way get rid of him via a trade or some other method, or C) the Astros should pursue the insurance claim angle and try to collect a big chunk of his '06 salary that way due to his debilitating injury
I'm looking forward to 2006. Go Astros!
He's earned his right to make a decision based on how he feels physically. You don't really know how Bagwell is feeling. I think he'll base his decision totally on what he feels is "best for the team".
01-13-2006, 06:48 PM
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Look, I really hope he's successful, not because he's Jeff Bagwell, but because he's Astros First Basemen Jeff Bagwell. If he does well, he's helping the team. It's not like I'm hoping he'll fall flat on his face, because that won't help the team. I just hope that he is honest, both with The Astros and with himself. It's the Astros' fault for agreeing to this contract, but if he goes into this season knowing that he either won't make it through 162 games or will be a singles hitter with a limp rag for a throwing arm, then that's not helping anyone. Not The Astros and (aside from the obvious financial windfall) not Jeff Bagwell.
-Mike
-Mike