Lets build a mid-engine Trans Am - need advice
02-15-2009, 03:07 AM
#322
Launching!
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 206
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't know. I've got 2 cars now. My black 99 I'm going to do small mods. I have a steel gas tank from my 98. If I keep a solid axle I may just notch the tank for diff clearance. That will give me at least an extra inch of travel in the back. I can get more if I tub the rear wheel wells.
Swapping in an IRS is also an option on the 99. I'll have to figure out where I want the tank after the hard part is over.
If I get the white 98 going with a mid-engine setup, then everything gets turned around. The tank and sub box will be up front.
Swapping in an IRS is also an option on the 99. I'll have to figure out where I want the tank after the hard part is over.
If I get the white 98 going with a mid-engine setup, then everything gets turned around. The tank and sub box will be up front.
Wheel hop FTL
02-15-2009, 03:30 PM
#324
On The Tree
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: San Bruno,Ca
Posts: 154
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Good luck on this build, seems like a badass concept, if it can be done i would love to see it. Anything can be done if you do some good research, keep up the good work!!
03-10-2009, 10:22 PM
#326
Teching In
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To the thread starter:
I havent read every page, but I made it like 6 pages in....
I have personally comtemplated Mid-4 many times so don't just discount my advice on it.
You could always try to get one of those new GT-R transmissions and bolt it right to the back of the LS1. It has a forward output for the front driveshaft.
If you decided on RWD, just use an Audi 016 transmission and save yourself a LOT of fab work. If you still want 4WD, then there are really only a few practical options to make a Mid-4 layout:
1- Transmission faces the middle of the car, then transfer case sends power back to the rear wheels and also fronts. To get a proper RWD biased torque split though you would need to totally re-engineer the internal layout, or just remove the center diff, send full torque to the rear driveshaft, and then install a viscous coupling on the output flange facing the front, so basically the front wheels will receive some torque when the rears start to spin faster. VW Syncro system functions like this but opposite F/R
2- Porsche G50 with custom side plate that allows drive to be taken from the ring gear and sent forward next to the LS1 block and to front wheels.
3- Oh, one last option: Use a heavy duty FWD transaxle, BUT mount the engine longitudinal and run the output from each end, forward and back. Of course this will either mean an offset engine, or an offset front driveshaft.
I havent read every page, but I made it like 6 pages in....
I have personally comtemplated Mid-4 many times so don't just discount my advice on it.
You could always try to get one of those new GT-R transmissions and bolt it right to the back of the LS1. It has a forward output for the front driveshaft.
If you decided on RWD, just use an Audi 016 transmission and save yourself a LOT of fab work. If you still want 4WD, then there are really only a few practical options to make a Mid-4 layout:
1- Transmission faces the middle of the car, then transfer case sends power back to the rear wheels and also fronts. To get a proper RWD biased torque split though you would need to totally re-engineer the internal layout, or just remove the center diff, send full torque to the rear driveshaft, and then install a viscous coupling on the output flange facing the front, so basically the front wheels will receive some torque when the rears start to spin faster. VW Syncro system functions like this but opposite F/R
2- Porsche G50 with custom side plate that allows drive to be taken from the ring gear and sent forward next to the LS1 block and to front wheels.
3- Oh, one last option: Use a heavy duty FWD transaxle, BUT mount the engine longitudinal and run the output from each end, forward and back. Of course this will either mean an offset engine, or an offset front driveshaft.
Last edited by SeanDean; 03-10-2009 at 10:29 PM.
03-11-2009, 12:40 AM
#328
To the thread starter:
I havent read every page, but I made it like 6 pages in....
I have personally comtemplated Mid-4 many times so don't just discount my advice on it.
You could always try to get one of those new GT-R transmissions and bolt it right to the back of the LS1. It has a forward output for the front driveshaft.
If you decided on RWD, just use an Audi 016 transmission and save yourself a LOT of fab work. If you still want 4WD, then there are really only a few practical options to make a Mid-4 layout:
1- Transmission faces the middle of the car, then transfer case sends power back to the rear wheels and also fronts. To get a proper RWD biased torque split though you would need to totally re-engineer the internal layout, or just remove the center diff, send full torque to the rear driveshaft, and then install a viscous coupling on the output flange facing the front, so basically the front wheels will receive some torque when the rears start to spin faster. VW Syncro system functions like this but opposite F/R
2- Porsche G50 with custom side plate that allows drive to be taken from the ring gear and sent forward next to the LS1 block and to front wheels.
3- Oh, one last option: Use a heavy duty FWD transaxle, BUT mount the engine longitudinal and run the output from each end, forward and back. Of course this will either mean an offset engine, or an offset front driveshaft.
I havent read every page, but I made it like 6 pages in....
I have personally comtemplated Mid-4 many times so don't just discount my advice on it.
You could always try to get one of those new GT-R transmissions and bolt it right to the back of the LS1. It has a forward output for the front driveshaft.
If you decided on RWD, just use an Audi 016 transmission and save yourself a LOT of fab work. If you still want 4WD, then there are really only a few practical options to make a Mid-4 layout:
1- Transmission faces the middle of the car, then transfer case sends power back to the rear wheels and also fronts. To get a proper RWD biased torque split though you would need to totally re-engineer the internal layout, or just remove the center diff, send full torque to the rear driveshaft, and then install a viscous coupling on the output flange facing the front, so basically the front wheels will receive some torque when the rears start to spin faster. VW Syncro system functions like this but opposite F/R
2- Porsche G50 with custom side plate that allows drive to be taken from the ring gear and sent forward next to the LS1 block and to front wheels.
3- Oh, one last option: Use a heavy duty FWD transaxle, BUT mount the engine longitudinal and run the output from each end, forward and back. Of course this will either mean an offset engine, or an offset front driveshaft.
I don't think that Audi trans will hold my power level.
The G50 is probably the cheapest that will work, but are still too expensive to buy and service not to mention a too low first gear.
See, I never wanted AWD. I didn't plan on mid-engine, either. I just want the lowest TA in the world. As you lower the front, the k-member gets in the way. The way it's looking know, I'll probably mount an LS1 up front, but raised 2", then run an open driveshaft to a rear mounted 4L80E. Similar to the Porsche 928 and C5 vettes. I think I can keep the engine up front, but still have a mid-engine looking car. I can shorten the nose and move the rear wheels back.
I want to build this car based on looks first. That's the most important thing.
Last edited by JasonWW; 03-11-2009 at 12:57 AM.
03-11-2009, 02:30 AM
#330
Teching In
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I know what those GTR trans costs and it's not pretty.
I don't think that Audi trans will hold my power level.
The G50 is probably the cheapest that will work, but are still too expensive to buy and service not to mention a too low first gear.
See, I never wanted AWD. I didn't plan on mid-engine, either. I just want the lowest TA in the world. As you lower the front, the k-member gets in the way. The way it's looking know, I'll probably mount an LS1 up front, but raised 2", then run an open driveshaft to a rear mounted 4L80E. Similar to the Porsche 928 and C5 vettes. I think I can keep the engine up front, but still have a mid-engine looking car. I can shorten the nose and move the rear wheels back.
I want to build this car based on looks first. That's the most important thing.
I don't think that Audi trans will hold my power level.
The G50 is probably the cheapest that will work, but are still too expensive to buy and service not to mention a too low first gear.
See, I never wanted AWD. I didn't plan on mid-engine, either. I just want the lowest TA in the world. As you lower the front, the k-member gets in the way. The way it's looking know, I'll probably mount an LS1 up front, but raised 2", then run an open driveshaft to a rear mounted 4L80E. Similar to the Porsche 928 and C5 vettes. I think I can keep the engine up front, but still have a mid-engine looking car. I can shorten the nose and move the rear wheels back.
I want to build this car based on looks first. That's the most important thing.
Here's your solution:
Dry sump.
Tilton or AP 5.5inch clutch.
Tilton bellhousing setup with mini flywheel and starter.
Shave the damn K-member or build your own to clear around the engine.
Run a rear-mount trans, or just run a Saenz tranny in the original location.
DONE.
03-11-2009, 01:56 PM
#331
Didn't you say you were making the car tube-frame? You were talking about doing all this advanced fabrication but a measly OEM k-member is gonna get in your way???? Are you serious?
Here's your solution:
Dry sump.
Tilton or AP 5.5inch clutch.
Tilton bellhousing setup with mini flywheel and starter.
Shave the damn K-member or build your own to clear around the engine.
Run a rear-mount trans, or just run a Saenz tranny in the original location.
DONE.
Here's your solution:
Dry sump.
Tilton or AP 5.5inch clutch.
Tilton bellhousing setup with mini flywheel and starter.
Shave the damn K-member or build your own to clear around the engine.
Run a rear-mount trans, or just run a Saenz tranny in the original location.
DONE.
The problem comes down to the steering rack.
There's no point in a dry sump, etc... if the rack can't be raised. The only real solution is to raise the k-member, rack and engine as a unit.
The one thing you lose by raising the engine is the wipers. I think I can replace the motor and linkage with another style that mounts the arms on the far ends of the windshield. I can have one arm mounted in the stock location and the other arm where the PCM mounts.
There's actually a lot of room in the wiper/fresh air box under the windshield.
Last edited by JasonWW; 03-11-2009 at 02:16 PM.
03-18-2009, 06:00 PM
#332
Teching In
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If you want to go low. . . If you want your TA to be the lowest, I suggest you consult someone who builds some of the lowest trucks and SUVs in Houston, http://www.ekstensive.com. I've seen his work, it's awesome. He usually builds BOF stuff, but give him a call and I'll be he can figure something out.
03-18-2009, 07:53 PM
#333
If you want your TA to be the lowest, I suggest you consult someone who builds some of the lowest trucks and SUVs in Houston, http://www.ekstensive.com. I've seen his work, it's awesome. He usually builds BOF stuff, but give him a call and I'll be he can figure something out.
Even though I can't pull off the mid-engine design due to money restrictions, I still plan to make a mid-engine looking car.
So I like the "mid-engine look" I get with these body shapes, but the mid-engine transmissions are just rediculously expensive.
So here's a radical idea. Why not do the body and wheel base alterations, but keep the engine up front? I could probably run a C5 torque tube and auto transmission.
The car would look like this:
What do you think? Kind of short and sporty, huh?
And the drivetrain like this:
It would give me more legroom, more exhaust room and better weight distribution. The only downside is the I'm pretty sure the torque tubes are not long enough. So I may have to run an open driveshaft instead.
So here's a radical idea. Why not do the body and wheel base alterations, but keep the engine up front? I could probably run a C5 torque tube and auto transmission.
The car would look like this:
What do you think? Kind of short and sporty, huh?
And the drivetrain like this:
It would give me more legroom, more exhaust room and better weight distribution. The only downside is the I'm pretty sure the torque tubes are not long enough. So I may have to run an open driveshaft instead.
Here we go. Notice that the large transmission bellhousing should be out of the way behind the front seats.
Last edited by JasonWW; 03-19-2009 at 05:55 AM.
03-24-2009, 12:16 PM
#335
Teching In
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So you've met Bill, that's awesome. I've been to his shop too, and I've seen several of his creations up close. The guy is a problem solver, that's for sure. This thread is awesome by the way. I like the rendering with the stretched wheelbase, looks great, and oddly enough, totally wouldn't work with a Camaro. The TA is aggressive enough to pull the look off. Good luck on the project!
03-25-2009, 10:41 AM
#336
forgive me if this is a repeat i stopped reading at page seven due to bickering... if this is really a budget build i think the most simple method of making this happen would be to purchase the dravetrain out of an LS4 front drive car i have seen them go for dirt cheap.
upsides-come with ls6 heads so they are compatible with lots of aftermarket if you are willing to sacrifice AFM and GXP's Are equipped with tapshift if you really want that exotic feel
Downsides- only four gears only 325 cu in displacement
other thougts- i have trouble believeing that a g6 tranny can handle the torque that a LSX puts down i think that would end violently
upsides-come with ls6 heads so they are compatible with lots of aftermarket if you are willing to sacrifice AFM and GXP's Are equipped with tapshift if you really want that exotic feel
Downsides- only four gears only 325 cu in displacement
other thougts- i have trouble believeing that a g6 tranny can handle the torque that a LSX puts down i think that would end violently
03-25-2009, 01:48 PM
#337
forgive me if this is a repeat i stopped reading at page seven due to bickering... if this is really a budget build i think the most simple method of making this happen would be to purchase the dravetrain out of an LS4 front drive car i have seen them go for dirt cheap.
upsides-come with ls6 heads so they are compatible with lots of aftermarket if you are willing to sacrifice AFM and GXP's Are equipped with tapshift if you really want that exotic feel
Downsides- only four gears only 325 cu in displacement
upsides-come with ls6 heads so they are compatible with lots of aftermarket if you are willing to sacrifice AFM and GXP's Are equipped with tapshift if you really want that exotic feel
Downsides- only four gears only 325 cu in displacement
I'm going to leave the engine up front, but make the car look mid-engine. I'll run either a T-56 vette trans or a 4L80E auto in the back. They are fairly cheap, strong and will get the job done.
03-28-2009, 01:31 PM
#338
TECH Enthusiast
Not correct...
Go to ZZP Performance and check it out...the 4T65e-hd is a good tranny. GM has several performance parts available for these transmissions and they used them in their factory Cobalt racing team.
Just have to search the internet for the correct info...the transmission in stock form wont hold a lot of torque but with modification this transmission has a lot of possibilities...but it is a 4 speed...
Also may I say....cutting an F-Body up to make it AWD or MR is really a waste of time, money and ambition...start with a better platform and you will achieve better results...
Go to ZZP Performance and check it out...the 4T65e-hd is a good tranny. GM has several performance parts available for these transmissions and they used them in their factory Cobalt racing team.
Just have to search the internet for the correct info...the transmission in stock form wont hold a lot of torque but with modification this transmission has a lot of possibilities...but it is a 4 speed...
Also may I say....cutting an F-Body up to make it AWD or MR is really a waste of time, money and ambition...start with a better platform and you will achieve better results...
