W8 vs. V8
07-14-2010, 08:29 PM
#21
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But then you get into the problem of paying twice as many people, fueling twice as many people, etc. And last time I checked a proberly build twin turbo 427 LS motor is damn reliable. I wonder what the price difference is? I be the LS gets better fuel economy also.
The W motors are a neat idea, but I don't like the fact that you have different length intake and exhaust ports. How the hell do you tune that for power?? And how does the crank take power pulses from so many different angles?? And like stated above; the crank loses room for main caps being so short with so many rods strapped to it.
The W motors are a neat idea, but I don't like the fact that you have different length intake and exhaust ports. How the hell do you tune that for power?? And how does the crank take power pulses from so many different angles?? And like stated above; the crank loses room for main caps being so short with so many rods strapped to it.
a 1000hp v8 in not going to be reliable, it will need a rebuild pretty often. reliable engine in a street car is one that can do at least 100000km's without a rebuild. and the veyron motor can do that.
like i have said before, i am not a big fan of the w engines and would never buy one, but it will be very hard to make reliable 1000hp on 8 cylinders
07-15-2010, 09:43 AM
#23
I was refering to your statement of people lifting a table. Meaning you have to buy twice as many parts, maintain fuel for twice as many cylinders, twice as many turbos, etc. I know 1,000hp is not cheap, but I think that a 1,000hp twin turbo LS1 would be light years less expensive than a quad turbo W16. I wonder how much VW would charge to sell that motor........is that even possible??
07-15-2010, 07:57 PM
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because every production car needs to pass a number of test's before it is sold to the public, cold weather testing, hot weather testing etc. when the engine is engineered they beat the **** out of it on an engine dyno before it goes in to the car
07-15-2010, 08:05 PM
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I was refering to your statement of people lifting a table. Meaning you have to buy twice as many parts, maintain fuel for twice as many cylinders, twice as many turbos, etc. I know 1,000hp is not cheap, but I think that a 1,000hp twin turbo LS1 would be light years less expensive than a quad turbo W16. I wonder how much VW would charge to sell that motor........is that even possible??
also the Cadillac has a v16 engine in one of their concept cars, and i believe that made almost 1000hp N/A
07-16-2010, 07:09 AM
#27
just as i have told you before, making RELIABLE 1000hp is very expensive. it would be very very hard to do it with a ls1 motor. and probably will be even more expensive, because i have not seen an 8 cylinder engine make that sort of power for a long time.
also the Cadillac has a v16 engine in one of their concept cars, and i believe that made almost 1000hp N/A
also the Cadillac has a v16 engine in one of their concept cars, and i believe that made almost 1000hp N/A
I think this would be do able with a LS engine, but not a stock unit. although LS9 engines have made close to 1000rwhp with twin turbos running the same boost as the SC produces. maybe it is doable with the LS platform?
Chris.
07-16-2010, 05:46 PM
#28
I agree that reliable 1000hp is going to quite expensive. A 1000hp LS twin turbo motor would likely cost you $20,000 if you don't do any of it yourself. I bet the Veyron W16 is easily twice that much to purchase. This is more or less a moot point because I know I can't afford to build one
.
.
07-16-2010, 06:36 PM
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I agree that reliable 1000hp is going to quite expensive. A 1000hp LS twin turbo motor would likely cost you $20,000 if you don't do any of it yourself. I bet the Veyron W16 is easily twice that much to purchase. This is more or less a moot point because I know I can't afford to build one.
.
07-16-2010, 08:08 PM
#30
last time i checked the SSC Ultimate Aero is the fastest production car in the world, not the veyron. and also last i heard it has a 6.3l twin turbo chevy engine which i heard was LS based. it is twin turbo and if i remember correctly its only on like 15psi and makes several hundred more horsepower than the veyron (it made like 1287 or something excessive like that) will go faster in a straight line than the veyron and ive heard its cheaper which idk about honestly.
and as you said its a production car so its been tested. there is no reason a properly built motor with a power goal in mind couldnt make that power reliabley. we all know the reliability of the LS series so it doesnt shock me at all that they made that kind of power in a production car. hell i saw a 427 lsx with twins make 1480 on pump gas on an engine dyno.
honestly get off the bugatti's nuts, its not that super amazing of a car in perspective and it was only even made as a technological exercise to prove that a 250+mph road car could be made that would be safe and that you could live with everyday. pointless waste of money.
and as you said its a production car so its been tested. there is no reason a properly built motor with a power goal in mind couldnt make that power reliabley. we all know the reliability of the LS series so it doesnt shock me at all that they made that kind of power in a production car. hell i saw a 427 lsx with twins make 1480 on pump gas on an engine dyno.
honestly get off the bugatti's nuts, its not that super amazing of a car in perspective and it was only even made as a technological exercise to prove that a 250+mph road car could be made that would be safe and that you could live with everyday. pointless waste of money.
07-17-2010, 04:33 AM
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last time i checked the SSC Ultimate Aero is the fastest production car in the world, not the veyron. and also last i heard it has a 6.3l twin turbo chevy engine which i heard was LS based. it is twin turbo and if i remember correctly its only on like 15psi and makes several hundred more horsepower than the veyron (it made like 1287 or something excessive like that) will go faster in a straight line than the veyron and ive heard its cheaper which idk about honestly.
and as you said its a production car so its been tested. there is no reason a properly built motor with a power goal in mind couldnt make that power reliabley. we all know the reliability of the LS series so it doesnt shock me at all that they made that kind of power in a production car. hell i saw a 427 lsx with twins make 1480 on pump gas on an engine dyno.
honestly get off the bugatti's nuts, its not that super amazing of a car in perspective and it was only even made as a technological exercise to prove that a 250+mph road car could be made that would be safe and that you could live with everyday. pointless waste of money.
and as you said its a production car so its been tested. there is no reason a properly built motor with a power goal in mind couldnt make that power reliabley. we all know the reliability of the LS series so it doesnt shock me at all that they made that kind of power in a production car. hell i saw a 427 lsx with twins make 1480 on pump gas on an engine dyno.
honestly get off the bugatti's nuts, its not that super amazing of a car in perspective and it was only even made as a technological exercise to prove that a 250+mph road car could be made that would be safe and that you could live with everyday. pointless waste of money.
also ultima seems to be a kit car not a production car so people stick whatever engine they like in it.
i am not on bugatti's nut's, if you actually read the whole thread you will see that i do not like W engines, but if you think you can make a 8 cylinder 1000hp motor last 100000km's, you better get you head out of your ***
07-17-2010, 04:59 AM
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last time i checked the SSC Ultimate Aero is the fastest production car in the world, not the veyron. and also last i heard it has a 6.3l twin turbo chevy engine which i heard was LS based. it is twin turbo and if i remember correctly its only on like 15psi and makes several hundred more horsepower than the veyron (it made like 1287 or something excessive like that) will go faster in a straight line than the veyron and ive heard its cheaper which idk about honestly.
and as you said its a production car so its been tested. there is no reason a properly built motor with a power goal in mind couldnt make that power reliabley. we all know the reliability of the LS series so it doesnt shock me at all that they made that kind of power in a production car. hell i saw a 427 lsx with twins make 1480 on pump gas on an engine dyno.
honestly get off the bugatti's nuts, its not that super amazing of a car in perspective and it was only even made as a technological exercise to prove that a 250+mph road car could be made that would be safe and that you could live with everyday. pointless waste of money.
and as you said its a production car so its been tested. there is no reason a properly built motor with a power goal in mind couldnt make that power reliabley. we all know the reliability of the LS series so it doesnt shock me at all that they made that kind of power in a production car. hell i saw a 427 lsx with twins make 1480 on pump gas on an engine dyno.
honestly get off the bugatti's nuts, its not that super amazing of a car in perspective and it was only even made as a technological exercise to prove that a 250+mph road car could be made that would be safe and that you could live with everyday. pointless waste of money.
Now, I'm not hating on the aero, I like the car and the motor is sweet. I guess we just have different views. For one, in my perspective I consider a car that can do 250+, that is safe, and liveable with everyday pretty amazing.
The price of a Bugatti is ridiculous though lol.
07-17-2010, 09:09 AM
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Good call on already pointing out that the Bugatti super sport already took back the record, and yes it did haves less power and more weight then the Aero while doing it.
A lot of posts here are pure opinion.
A lot of posts here are pure opinion.
07-17-2010, 09:35 AM
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Actually Bugatti has done a Veyron Super Sport, and it is officially the fastest production car in the world now. Also, you made me laugh when you said the Aero made "several" hundred more horsepower than a Veyron, when the original was rated at 1,001 and the Aero at 1,287. And then, the new Super Sport only makes 1,200 and still goes faster than the aero, while weighing a considerable amount more.
Now, I'm not hating on the aero, I like the car and the motor is sweet. I guess we just have different views. For one, in my perspective I consider a car that can do 250+, that is safe, and liveable with everyday pretty amazing.
The price of a Bugatti is ridiculous though lol.
Now, I'm not hating on the aero, I like the car and the motor is sweet. I guess we just have different views. For one, in my perspective I consider a car that can do 250+, that is safe, and liveable with everyday pretty amazing.
The price of a Bugatti is ridiculous though lol.
07-17-2010, 10:34 AM
#35
not only will the veyron do 250 mph, it will do it so smoothly and quietly you can drive with 1 hand on the wheel and hold a comfortable conversation with your passenger while listening to the radio, sitting on your heated/cooled seats.
07-17-2010, 11:56 AM
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Imma cut the chase short because this is looking like it will turn into the time less "more speed for less money" battle.
The veyron really has no competition in this field, as was previously mentioned it will go faster then the aero but it will feel like a luxurious suite at speed while doing it. Andy grandma could just hop in and hit 250 and feel comfortable and secure in one.
Comparing it to the aeros price a car which can go almost as fast if you survive the acceleration with minimal creature comforts is just not a valid thing to do.
Different cars exist for different reasons, if everyone just cared about straigh line speed for little monet everyone would be driving swapped hondas or old swapped mustangs
Seriously give some credit where credit will do, a modded F body will walk a brand new CTS-V or M5 but that doesnt make it the better car, do you really think people who cross shop those will think "oh but for so much less money i can build this F body to be faster, its a tough choice!"
The veyron really has no competition in this field, as was previously mentioned it will go faster then the aero but it will feel like a luxurious suite at speed while doing it. Andy grandma could just hop in and hit 250 and feel comfortable and secure in one.
Comparing it to the aeros price a car which can go almost as fast if you survive the acceleration with minimal creature comforts is just not a valid thing to do.
Different cars exist for different reasons, if everyone just cared about straigh line speed for little monet everyone would be driving swapped hondas or old swapped mustangs
Seriously give some credit where credit will do, a modded F body will walk a brand new CTS-V or M5 but that doesnt make it the better car, do you really think people who cross shop those will think "oh but for so much less money i can build this F body to be faster, its a tough choice!"
07-18-2010, 10:00 PM
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Veyron Impressive. But bugatti is stupid for manufacturing any car at a loss. If I remember correctly the areo broke the first record on a 3 mile run. Said that the car will do in the 260's range. Half the price, but half the options. Bugatti is very sexy and 5k pounds. To much money.
However, what about some kind of ls breed opposed 8. Porche, subaru, and the airplane industry has used them for years. They have proved to be very reliable. To me it just makes sense to have the combustion force driving towards each other to help absorb stress on the block. (but maybe it just makes more stress on the crank). They dont turn a lot of rpms but if you have enough power you can gear it however you want. I would also thing you could have a lower center of gravity for road racing cars. What do you think?
However, what about some kind of ls breed opposed 8. Porche, subaru, and the airplane industry has used them for years. They have proved to be very reliable. To me it just makes sense to have the combustion force driving towards each other to help absorb stress on the block. (but maybe it just makes more stress on the crank). They dont turn a lot of rpms but if you have enough power you can gear it however you want. I would also thing you could have a lower center of gravity for road racing cars. What do you think?
07-18-2010, 10:00 PM
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Veyron Impressive. But bugatti is stupid for manufacturing any car at a loss. If I remember correctly the areo broke the first record on a 3 mile run. Said that the car will do in the 260's range. Half the price, but half the options. Bugatti is very sexy and 5k pounds. To much money.
However, what about some kind of ls breed opposed 8. Porche, subaru, and the airplane industry has used them for years. They have proved to be very reliable. To me it just makes sense to have the combustion force driving towards each other to help absorb stress on the block. (but maybe it just makes more stress on the crank). They dont turn a lot of rpms but if you have enough power you can gear it however you want. I would also thing you could have a lower center of gravity for road racing cars. What do you think?
However, what about some kind of ls breed opposed 8. Porche, subaru, and the airplane industry has used them for years. They have proved to be very reliable. To me it just makes sense to have the combustion force driving towards each other to help absorb stress on the block. (but maybe it just makes more stress on the crank). They dont turn a lot of rpms but if you have enough power you can gear it however you want. I would also thing you could have a lower center of gravity for road racing cars. What do you think?
07-19-2010, 06:17 AM
#39
Veyron Impressive. But bugatti is stupid for manufacturing any car at a loss. If I remember correctly the areo broke the first record on a 3 mile run. Said that the car will do in the 260's range. Half the price, but half the options. Bugatti is very sexy and 5k pounds. To much money.
However, what about some kind of ls breed opposed 8. Porche, subaru, and the airplane industry has used them for years. They have proved to be very reliable. To me it just makes sense to have the combustion force driving towards each other to help absorb stress on the block. (but maybe it just makes more stress on the crank). They dont turn a lot of rpms but if you have enough power you can gear it however you want. I would also thing you could have a lower center of gravity for road racing cars. What do you think?
However, what about some kind of ls breed opposed 8. Porche, subaru, and the airplane industry has used them for years. They have proved to be very reliable. To me it just makes sense to have the combustion force driving towards each other to help absorb stress on the block. (but maybe it just makes more stress on the crank). They dont turn a lot of rpms but if you have enough power you can gear it however you want. I would also thing you could have a lower center of gravity for road racing cars. What do you think?
i honestly hope they never make a reliable production 1000hp car that the average person can buy. there is no need for it and all we need is a bunch of idiots buying them. is it possible to make a 1000 hp production ls1 and make it reliable? i have no idea and 6 years ago i never thought i see a 630 hp engine in a corvette but who know they may one day have a 1000hp engine.
but i can tell you this if a manufacture thinks then can make money off producing an engine that make 1000hp then i have doubts if they care if it will last 1000k. back in the day my father bought a sport furry with a 440 race engine in it and it came with no warranty. Chevy build a 1000 hp camaro they could easily sell it with a 3 year 36k warranty instead of the 100k 5 year if they wanted. the point of it lasting a 100k miles is pointless.
07-19-2010, 11:28 AM
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the problem is that the w8 is supposed to save room while the opposed 8 would most likely be a very large engine. i personally am very impressed with the one in my buddies Subaru sti. his modded sti blows the doors off my camaro.
i honestly hope they never make a reliable production 1000hp car that the average person can buy. there is no need for it and all we need is a bunch of idiots buying them. is it possible to make a 1000 hp production ls1 and make it reliable? i have no idea and 6 years ago i never thought i see a 630 hp engine in a corvette but who know they may one day have a 1000hp engine.
but i can tell you this if a manufacture thinks then can make money off producing an engine that make 1000hp then i have doubts if they care if it will last 1000k. back in the day my father bought a sport furry with a 440 race engine in it and it came with no warranty. Chevy build a 1000 hp camaro they could easily sell it with a 3 year 36k warranty instead of the 100k 5 year if they wanted. the point of it lasting a 100k miles is pointless.
i honestly hope they never make a reliable production 1000hp car that the average person can buy. there is no need for it and all we need is a bunch of idiots buying them. is it possible to make a 1000 hp production ls1 and make it reliable? i have no idea and 6 years ago i never thought i see a 630 hp engine in a corvette but who know they may one day have a 1000hp engine.
but i can tell you this if a manufacture thinks then can make money off producing an engine that make 1000hp then i have doubts if they care if it will last 1000k. back in the day my father bought a sport furry with a 440 race engine in it and it came with no warranty. Chevy build a 1000 hp camaro they could easily sell it with a 3 year 36k warranty instead of the 100k 5 year if they wanted. the point of it lasting a 100k miles is pointless.
then buy a 4 banger and squeeze 1000hp out of it, and you will see how expensive the upkeep of that motor will be, not to mention the shitty power curve.
so the motor lasting 100 000km is not pointless to most of us