W8 vs. V8
07-19-2010, 11:29 AM
#41
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Veyron Impressive. But bugatti is stupid for manufacturing any car at a loss. If I remember correctly the areo broke the first record on a 3 mile run. Said that the car will do in the 260's range. Half the price, but half the options. Bugatti is very sexy and 5k pounds. To much money.
However, what about some kind of ls breed opposed 8. Porche, subaru, and the airplane industry has used them for years. They have proved to be very reliable. To me it just makes sense to have the combustion force driving towards each other to help absorb stress on the block. (but maybe it just makes more stress on the crank). They dont turn a lot of rpms but if you have enough power you can gear it however you want. I would also thing you could have a lower center of gravity for road racing cars. What do you think?
However, what about some kind of ls breed opposed 8. Porche, subaru, and the airplane industry has used them for years. They have proved to be very reliable. To me it just makes sense to have the combustion force driving towards each other to help absorb stress on the block. (but maybe it just makes more stress on the crank). They dont turn a lot of rpms but if you have enough power you can gear it however you want. I would also thing you could have a lower center of gravity for road racing cars. What do you think?
08-05-2010, 09:03 AM
#42
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Porche is also a 6 not an 8. RPM is really irrelevant for most street applications. As long as you can make power and gear it right you can go fast. Look at the diesel guys. If your on the race track rpm is a different story. Its hard to say if the opposed engine is really any better than the current lsx engines as far as reliability. I have thought about it hard and the traditional V engine design puts a lot of stress on the mains while the opposed engine puts it more on the crank. I dont know if porches have any crank problem when really sticking the juice to it, but I would guess they would. Just my .02
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08-05-2010, 02:41 PM
#44
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Isnt this the advanced tech section, all I see are opinions about the cars looks and google searches on records with no actual hard data comparing cylinder head flow, longevity or anything else.
08-09-2010, 10:44 PM
#45
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Further more, you guys saying the veyron will last 100,000km are clueless, you could have built 10 more 1000+hp LS motors for the price of JUST maintanence to the veyron. VW doesnt know how to make high HP cars, thats why the bugatti is so heavily dependandt on strong high tech expensive materials to make up for the lack of design. years of RnD and countless millions over a long period of time is how GM can do it easily now. You can go buy a 800+ci BBC that makes 2000hp N/A for under $100k and it will last longer than that bugatti. Hell you could buy GM's 572 crate motor and throw a turbo/supercharger on it with very low boost and make over 1000hp and it will last longer.
08-11-2010, 02:42 AM
#49
Yea exactly since the maker of the Aero said the car wasnt toped out, just ran out of room on a PUBLIC ROAD!(it was closed to public obviously though) but still a bumpy public road is not the best place to test something like that and he said it could easily hit 270+mph if they were givin a test track like that one the Veyron SS ran on.
Further more, you guys saying the veyron will last 100,000km are clueless, you could have built 10 more 1000+hp LS motors for the price of JUST maintanence to the veyron. VW doesnt know how to make high HP cars, thats why the bugatti is so heavily dependandt on strong high tech expensive materials to make up for the lack of design. years of RnD and countless millions over a long period of time is how GM can do it easily now. You can go buy a 800+ci BBC that makes 2000hp N/A for under $100k and it will last longer than that bugatti. Hell you could buy GM's 572 crate motor and throw a turbo/supercharger on it with very low boost and make over 1000hp and it will last longer.
Further more, you guys saying the veyron will last 100,000km are clueless, you could have built 10 more 1000+hp LS motors for the price of JUST maintanence to the veyron. VW doesnt know how to make high HP cars, thats why the bugatti is so heavily dependandt on strong high tech expensive materials to make up for the lack of design. years of RnD and countless millions over a long period of time is how GM can do it easily now. You can go buy a 800+ci BBC that makes 2000hp N/A for under $100k and it will last longer than that bugatti. Hell you could buy GM's 572 crate motor and throw a turbo/supercharger on it with very low boost and make over 1000hp and it will last longer.
No one is argueing with you that the Bugatti is over priced and that a GM engine couldn't make that power and a lot more. But its clear that you just dont get the Veyron or any type of car like it! Sorry but if the Veyron used a GM engine (and they NEVER would!!!!) it would not be the car it is.
This is nothing against GM orny engine they make. Kornegsega (whatever the name was) made it very clear to the public that they only used a ford V8 race blok in their engine and that it sheard NO other components with the Ford engine!!!! the only hyper car company to use another companies engine is Maclaren with the F1 (and that was a massively worked BMW RACE V12) and Pagani with the Zonda's V12, and again that is had alot of work done to it!
Chris.
08-11-2010, 08:11 PM
#50
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But damn that Veyron block is BEEFY
Last edited by OKcruising; 08-11-2010 at 08:16 PM.
08-11-2010, 11:03 PM
#52
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buy this
http://nelsonracingengines.com/price..._454lsx_tt.pdf
and put it in this
http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/200...rL_468x582.jpg
http://nelsonracingengines.com/price..._454lsx_tt.pdf
and put it in this
http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/200...rL_468x582.jpg
08-14-2010, 09:41 PM
#53
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From personal experience i can honestly say these engines are an absolute pig and there is still not enough to make them a reliable worthwhile engine. How long has the W8 been around 8 years? the V8...108 years...although many changes.
These volksys have a bit of a hunger for head gaskets, costly and engine removal makes your life much easier.
IMO steer clear, the Veyron is a supercar that costs around 5million USD to build then VW sell it as a loss because they want it to be the greatest automobile experiment ever.
So you cant really compare that to what we use, concept vs mass production. That just doesnt make sense does it
These volksys have a bit of a hunger for head gaskets, costly and engine removal makes your life much easier.
IMO steer clear, the Veyron is a supercar that costs around 5million USD to build then VW sell it as a loss because they want it to be the greatest automobile experiment ever.
So you cant really compare that to what we use, concept vs mass production. That just doesnt make sense does it
08-15-2010, 09:00 AM
#54
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I think the W8 is a complicated answer looking for a question. The W8 was used in the Passat and the Audi A6 which are both B5 platforms.
Audi had already put their 4.2l V8 in a B5.
I worked for VW/Audi during the time they were talking and developing the W8 and the Phaeton both of which were flops.
The W8 was made by lopping 2 cylinders off the15* narrow angle VR6 making it a VR4. Then they mated 2 VR4 blocks together to make a W8, 2 VR6's= W12 etc. The W family of engines isn't really ground breaking it is just a complex design for the sake of being complex. Audi's 5v per cyl is the same way.
Here is the inspiration for the Bugatti super exotic wunder motern
http://www.6066gmcguy.org/TwinSix.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puJaDfB4UFM
Me too
Audi had already put their 4.2l V8 in a B5.
I worked for VW/Audi during the time they were talking and developing the W8 and the Phaeton both of which were flops.
The W8 was made by lopping 2 cylinders off the15* narrow angle VR6 making it a VR4. Then they mated 2 VR4 blocks together to make a W8, 2 VR6's= W12 etc. The W family of engines isn't really ground breaking it is just a complex design for the sake of being complex. Audi's 5v per cyl is the same way.
Here is the inspiration for the Bugatti super exotic wunder motern
http://www.6066gmcguy.org/TwinSix.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puJaDfB4UFM
Me too
08-16-2010, 03:34 AM
#57
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making reliable 1000hp is not cheap, so you can forget about paying twice the people or the price difference
a 1000hp v8 in not going to be reliable, it will need a rebuild pretty often. reliable engine in a street car is one that can do at least 100000km's without a rebuild. and the veyron motor can do that.
like i have said before, i am not a big fan of the w engines and would never buy one, but it will be very hard to make reliable 1000hp on 8 cylinders
a 1000hp v8 in not going to be reliable, it will need a rebuild pretty often. reliable engine in a street car is one that can do at least 100000km's without a rebuild. and the veyron motor can do that.
like i have said before, i am not a big fan of the w engines and would never buy one, but it will be very hard to make reliable 1000hp on 8 cylinders
http://jalopnik.com/5449046/veyron-o...travel-cheaper
Apparently, the English Bugatti owner was tired of paying $21,000 for a routine service, $38,500 for a set of four tires and $46,000 every fourth tire change to have his wheels x-rayed to check for stress fractures. In comparison, an annual service on a Ferrari Enzo costs just $2,730.
Provide proof that the Veyron's W16 can do that mileage without a rebuild..
08-30-2010, 12:39 AM
#58
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And back to advanced engineering tech... The VW R32 is a nice design as it reduces the cost of multiple cylinder heads and valvetrain components. Only downside I can see is that it would be a taller engine: high center of gravity and fitment issues:
10-05-2010, 08:47 PM
#59
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10-06-2010, 02:56 AM
#60
It would be intrsesting to see what a W12 engine would look like compeard to a LS engine. two R32 (or even R36) engiens would give you 6.4 (7.2) ltrs with 48 valves! think people are pushing about 800bhp out of these engines so it should be pretty eqsy to get over 1000bhp out of a W12. Obviously as discussed before main bearing support is going to be the problem. the maincap are going to have to be special to take the load. Maybe a built in cradle could be used that linked all the mains together and boted to the block aswell..... Cross bolting would also help......
Chris.