Alternative to reluctor wheel?
08-23-2010, 04:12 PM
#1
Alternative to reluctor wheel? I've read that guys running high rpm road racers choose to go a different route than with a reluctor wheel. They have the hub and reluctor wheel taken off. What do they used instead? Why would they do that?
08-23-2010, 06:01 PM
#2
They use either the Dizzy conversion kit, or you can use an MSD timing wheel kit or a jesel front drive kit.
All of the are pricey options. The only reason they are used is if you are going massive RPM, or you want the nostalgic look.
Otherwise, stick with the tried and true method.
All of the are pricey options. The only reason they are used is if you are going massive RPM, or you want the nostalgic look.
Otherwise, stick with the tried and true method.
08-24-2010, 02:15 AM
#4
TECH Resident
08-24-2010, 09:11 AM
#5
At the higher rpms (twilight zone) the sensor gets too many pulses per second even that it just becomes an electronic blur due to the resolution of the signal, or something complicated like that
.
08-24-2010, 01:35 PM
#6
John, how does something like that work? Most of those run off of a magnetic pulse and then it would need a EFI that'll take a magnetic pulse for a trigger, right? Is there a system that doesn't use a magnetic pulse? There's a FAST conversion for the old SBC and use a trigger. Would you have to run a megasquirt system or is there a different EFI that you could use?
Last edited by bp944; 08-24-2010 at 02:09 PM.
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08-29-2010, 07:09 PM
#9
A crank trigger setup is usually used in ls setups to use a aftermarket ignition unit such as an msd programmable 7 or something of that nature were individual cylinder timing can be accomplished thus squeezing every last HP out of a engine were as stock pcm's won't tune individual cylinders.
On other engines that don't come with EFI as efficient as an ls1's pcm or didn't come efi at all this kind of ignition coupled with a FAST or Big Stuff 3 this is a great setup.
On other engines that don't come with EFI as efficient as an ls1's pcm or didn't come efi at all this kind of ignition coupled with a FAST or Big Stuff 3 this is a great setup.
08-29-2010, 10:51 PM
#10
Can someone explain how I would do this, part by part? I understand the concept but FAST, Jesel, and Big Stuff 3 sell quite a few products. The Jesel valvetrain link doesn't look like something you'd use in a daily driver. I want something that is dependable. There's a damper sold with magnetic pick-ups but what else will work? Would something like this fit on a LS block?
http://www.fuelairspark.com/Pages/35...n-Program.aspx
http://www.fuelairspark.com/Pages/35...n-Program.aspx
08-30-2010, 09:32 AM
#11
Yes that will work. You would order a ls style kit that way the inductor bracket will line up with the trigger wheel and you have to switch to a conventional style balancer with a 3 bolt holes. Here a pick from a engine that BES Racing Engines did. They placed 2nd in the engine masters challenge last year with a motor just like this but this engine is carb'd and runs a gmpp front cover with a modified ford distributor. I understand what you are saying about the belt drive distributor not looking streetable. I cannot tell you other wise but I imagine as long as you kept it clean and kept the belt serviced and always carried a spare you probably wouldn't ever have a problem with it.
http://www.besracing.com/customer-en...hallenge-motor
http://www.besracing.com/customer-en...hallenge-motor
Last edited by Oldsmobility85; 08-30-2010 at 12:37 PM.
08-30-2010, 09:43 AM
#12
If you run any type of timing set like that, you will have to make triple sure that it is timed correctly on the crank. Just like when they clock the reluctor wheel. To do that with a front drive system like that, you would have to pin the crank in a specific way to make sure its clocked right in the beginning then adjust with the bolt holes on the timing wheel.
Can you post a picture of the crankshaft? Maybe it will throw some more ideas out.
Can you post a picture of the crankshaft? Maybe it will throw some more ideas out.
08-30-2010, 12:57 PM
#13
adjusting the wheel with the bolt holes gets your timing close and in range. The inductive pickup bracket is then slid up or down to set the timing and on my sbc has a adjustment range of 20*. The tricky part is once you have the timing set close enough to start the engine you have to make sure that when the ignition box is firing the coil that your rotor is pointing directly at the plug wire terminal. Its not super hard but it takes a big getting used to. If the rotor and terminal aren't super close to each other when that coil fires the engine will not start and if it does will not run very well due to large spark gap inside distributor.
If you are intersted in the belt drive dist I would try to contact someone who has hands on used that setup. I think that the gmpp front drive setup with the modified ford distributor would be cheaper but Who Knows there all expensive.
good luck.
If you are intersted in the belt drive dist I would try to contact someone who has hands on used that setup. I think that the gmpp front drive setup with the modified ford distributor would be cheaper but Who Knows there all expensive.
good luck.
08-30-2010, 01:04 PM
#14
You dont have to use a "modified" Ford dizzy for the GMPP setup, it takes a standard 302 distributor. Pinning the crank is next. Then spacing the water pump. Then using a keyed balancer with timing marks and/or the timing wheel.
In this application the GM setup with the front mount dizzy would prob work better. It would take less cost to do for everything. Machining the crank with some sort of timing mark or for a wheel would be more costly and using any of the other setups would be as well.
You are looking in the wrong place to have made this cost effective really. It going to take quite a bit either way to get it going.
In this application the GM setup with the front mount dizzy would prob work better. It would take less cost to do for everything. Machining the crank with some sort of timing mark or for a wheel would be more costly and using any of the other setups would be as well.
You are looking in the wrong place to have made this cost effective really. It going to take quite a bit either way to get it going.
08-30-2010, 01:22 PM
#15
You dont have to use a "modified" Ford dizzy for the GMPP setup, it takes a standard 302 distributor. Pinning the crank is next. Then spacing the water pump. Then using a keyed balancer with timing marks and/or the timing wheel.
In this application the GM setup with the front mount dizzy would prob work better. It would take less cost to do for everything. Machining the crank with some sort of timing mark or for a wheel would be more costly and using any of the other setups would be as well.
You are looking in the wrong place to have made this cost effective really. It going to take quite a bit either way to get it going.
In this application the GM setup with the front mount dizzy would prob work better. It would take less cost to do for everything. Machining the crank with some sort of timing mark or for a wheel would be more costly and using any of the other setups would be as well.
You are looking in the wrong place to have made this cost effective really. It going to take quite a bit either way to get it going.
08-30-2010, 01:37 PM
#16
No. Not keyed like that. Pinned in time with what would otherwise be a timing wheel on it. They are different. Not just a keyway. There is a diagram inside the front dist cover kit that tells you how to do it, but you have to make sure you are on or at least close so the distributor can be timed. The crank companies would prob not be too interested in that.
It is a special setup that gets looked at alot but passed over due to cost. Most go with the timing box and ls coils. But that is not the case here since there is on provision for the timing wheel on the crank.
It is a special setup that gets looked at alot but passed over due to cost. Most go with the timing box and ls coils. But that is not the case here since there is on provision for the timing wheel on the crank.
09-04-2010, 12:17 PM
#19
The ATI setup works (just called them) and I think that may be the best way to go. I'd have to get a MSD trigger and work off of that. Where would I put the magnets as far as degrees go? Are the ATI dampers custom or can I get these used or discounted somewhere?
