Advanced Engineering Tech For the more hardcore LS1TECH residents

Why use Al for pistons?

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Mar 20, 2014 | 02:08 AM
  #21  
blackonblacksls's Avatar
TECH Enthusiast
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 508
Likes: 1
Default

Originally Posted by ayousef
Okay how about a titanium alloy based piston? That should be lighter and stronger than aluminum REGARDLESS of the cost, would something like this work?
Titanium doesn't seem to like to rub against anything else.

Titanium valves have issues with guides, rods like to Gaul rubbing eachother too.

Can't imagine rubbing against a cylinder wall would it would last.

But I have no experience with it.

I have worked with inconel stuff before during machining.

It's rough to work with, kills bits and is rough on the equipment.
Reply
Old Mar 23, 2014 | 08:09 AM
  #22  
ez2cdave's Avatar
TECH Enthusiast
 
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 651
Likes: 10
From: North Carolina
Default

Originally Posted by blackonblacksls
Titanium valves have issues with guides, rods like to Gaul rubbing each other too.
I believe that's "Gall" . . .
Reply
Old Mar 24, 2014 | 03:43 PM
  #23  
iliveonnitro's Avatar
Staging Lane
 
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 93
Likes: 1
Default

I work with inconel (which is a trade name, btw. It goes by alloy 600/800/840/etc) on a daily basis for temperature sensors and electric heaters that go up to 900C, and James had it right. The stuff is a huge PITA to machine, especially in volume. It obviously conducts pretty well, but not as well as aluminum...plus, that much more rotating mass is a bear on a crankshaft.

It's nice that it doesn't creep under temperature and maintains its strength, but it's more suited to very high temperature applications...like in a turbocharger.

From what I remember in my materials classes and random things I've picked up, titanium would be good for short-term applications. Eg, open the tolerances 10% so it glides easier and run it for a few races or a single season. I don't think I'd want it on a car that will hit 30k miles or more.
Reply
Old Mar 24, 2014 | 10:55 PM
  #24  
HexenLord's Avatar
TECH Enthusiast
 
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 728
Likes: 3
Default

Wow, so many people greatly over thinking this.

Why is aluminum used for pistons? Because its not the weak point. Stock Hypereutectic pistons are capable of supporting close to 150 HP EACH. In 90% of OEM engine failures where high HP is involved, it tends to be the rod bolts that let go. In 90% of all OEM rotating assemblies, the rod bolts are the weak point. They give out because of the forces exerted on them during an intake stroke. At high RPM, even with a lightweight aluminum piston, they let go between the top of the exhaust stroke and the bottom intake stroke. Somewhere between the piston coming to a dead stop with no downward force being exerted, or the piston being accelerated back downwards with no downward force coming from above. All of the force in these 2 instances is on the rod bolts.

In aftermarket applications, stronger rod bolts can handle the load better. They can handle a 4" bore piston at 8k RPM all day long. The thing is, even the aluminum piston can handle this. What would happen here if you tripled the weight of the piston? Even that nice expensive ARP rod bolt is going to let go at 6000 RPM.

Changing the piston to a heaver, stronger material is not removing the bottleneck. The lighter the piston the better, in all applications. If aluminum is strong enough to handle whatever abuse is being thrown at it, there is no need for an upgrade. Top fuel dragsters produce 1000 HP per cylinder, and not only do the aluminum pistons hold up just fine, but so do the ALUMINUM connecting rods. The aluminum rods are strong enough to handle the abuse, and soak up extra vibration. This keeps the rod bolts in place.

You might as well discuss why engine blocks themselves are often made of aluminum in 3000+ HP builds and instead aren't made of solid Inconel or some 210,000 + psi tensile strength alloy. The fact of the matter is, the point is still moot because you aren't discussing any real weakness.
Reply
Old Mar 24, 2014 | 11:12 PM
  #25  
RedHotG8's Avatar
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,419
Likes: 1
From: Chicagoland
Default

I'm a machinist (actually a tool & die maker) and I make and sell aluminum strut brace mounting brackets for the w-body cars in my garage. I use high strength aircraft aluminum because it's strong and lightweight plus it doesn't rust. I have sold many thousands of these parts and have not had one single failure.

A lot of people don't realize how strong aluminum really is, even though it's softer and lighter than steel. In fact pound for pound it's actually stronger than steel, which makes it ideal for pistons.
Reply




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:28 AM.

story-0
Amazing '71 Camaro Restomod Is Modern Muscle Car Under the Skin

Slideshow: This heavily modified 1971 Camaro mixes classic muscle car styling with a fifth-generation Camaro interior and modern LS3 power.

By Verdad Gallardo | 2026-05-12 18:06:42


VIEW MORE
story-1
6 Common C5 Corvette Failures and What's Involved In Repairing Them

Slideshow: From wobbling harmonic balancers to failed EBCMs, these are the issues that define long-term C5 ownership and what repairs typically involve.

By Pouria Savadkouei | 2026-05-07 18:44:57


VIEW MORE
story-2
Retro Modern Bandit Pontiac Trans AM Comes With Burt Reynolds' Autograph

Slideshow: A modern Camaro transformed into a retro icon, this limited-run "Bandit" build blends nostalgia with brute force in a way few revivals manage.

By Verdad Gallardo | 2026-04-21 13:57:02


VIEW MORE
story-3
Top 10 Greatest Cadillac V Series Performance Models Ever, Ranked

Slideshow: Cadillac didn't just crash the high-performance luxury vehicle party, it showed up loud, supercharged, and occasionally a little unhinged...

By Pouria Savadkouei | 2026-04-16 10:05:15


VIEW MORE
story-4
Top 10 Most Powerful Chevy Trucks Ever Made!

Slideshow: Top ten most powerful Chevy trucks ever made

By | 2026-03-25 09:22:26


VIEW MORE
story-5
Hennessey's New Supercharged Silverado ZR2 Has 700 HP

Slideshow: Hennessey has turned the Silverado ZR2 into a 700-hp off-road monster with supercharged V8 power and a limited production run.

By Verdad Gallardo | 2026-03-24 18:57:52


VIEW MORE
story-6
Coachbuilt N2A Anteros Is an LS2-Powered C6 Corvette In Italian Clothes

Slideshow: A one-off sports car that looks like a vintage Italian exotic-but hides a C6 Corvette underneath-just sold for the price of a new mid-engine Corvette.

By Verdad Gallardo | 2026-03-23 18:53:41


VIEW MORE
story-7
Awesome K5 Blazer Restomod Comes With C7 Corvette Power

Slideshow: A heavily reworked 1972 K5 Blazer swaps its off-road roots for a low-slung street-focused build with modern V8 power.

By Verdad Gallardo | 2026-03-09 18:08:45


VIEW MORE
story-8
10 Camaros You Should Never Buy

Slideshow: There are thousands of used Camaros on the market but we think you should avoid these 10

By | 2026-02-17 17:09:30


VIEW MORE
story-9
10 LS Engine Myths That Refuse to Die

Slideshows: Which one of these myths do you believe?

By Verdad Gallardo | 2026-01-28 18:10:11


VIEW MORE