Low Lash Solid Roller?Yes for the street.
9 Second Club
Joined: Nov 2003
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From: Norn Iron
The SR should offer better valvetrain stability, better valve control. But with a good HR profile, is it a problem ? I guess a lot of the hydraulic guys would probably say not ?
Ive found comparisons, but the SR has always had a more aggressive profile and longer duration etc...so you'd expect it to gain up top and lose out down low.
But can a SR offer win win everywhere ?
Would be interested in that myself.
The SR should offer better valvetrain stability, better valve control. But with a good HR profile, is it a problem ? I guess a lot of the hydraulic guys would probably say not ?
Ive found comparisons, but the SR has always had a more aggressive profile and longer duration etc...so you'd expect it to gain up top and lose out down low.
But can a SR offer win win everywhere ?
The SR should offer better valvetrain stability, better valve control. But with a good HR profile, is it a problem ? I guess a lot of the hydraulic guys would probably say not ?
Ive found comparisons, but the SR has always had a more aggressive profile and longer duration etc...so you'd expect it to gain up top and lose out down low.
But can a SR offer win win everywhere ?
To answer your question. Yes. In my opinion the low lash solid roller cam offered a win/win everywhere including increased power, increased rpm capability, peace of mind, a killer idle sound and a great conversation topic when bench racing. ;-)
9 Second Club
Joined: Nov 2003
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From: Norn Iron
My needs are slightly different.
With a turbo setup, I actually like the idea of some lash, ensuring 100% the valve gets proper seat time, especially exhaust valve.
I'm not after a big lopey cam. Quite the opposite. I want a smooth idle, I want a cam that will offer good spool...but I want a cam that will peak around 68-7000rpm, and carry me a few hundred rpm beyond that when needed. Mostly only 4th and 5th gear really.
4th at present will struggle to hit 150, so a few hundred more rpm would make a good difference. Changing to 5th on the 1/4 is just pointless
I'm beginning to believe what i want just isnt realistic with a hydraulic.
Plus I wonder how oil pressure affects a hydraulic lifter when pushed hard too.
SR just removes so many variables.
Maybe this winter I'll make the change.
With a turbo setup, I actually like the idea of some lash, ensuring 100% the valve gets proper seat time, especially exhaust valve.
I'm not after a big lopey cam. Quite the opposite. I want a smooth idle, I want a cam that will offer good spool...but I want a cam that will peak around 68-7000rpm, and carry me a few hundred rpm beyond that when needed. Mostly only 4th and 5th gear really.
4th at present will struggle to hit 150, so a few hundred more rpm would make a good difference. Changing to 5th on the 1/4 is just pointless
I'm beginning to believe what i want just isnt realistic with a hydraulic.
Plus I wonder how oil pressure affects a hydraulic lifter when pushed hard too.
SR just removes so many variables.
Maybe this winter I'll make the change.
Funny you mention this because Kip is going to be speccing me a new solid grind this winter. I am changing up my build and going boost. I am swapping to the trick flow heads, redoing my fuel system for E85 and adding a billet BW 480 and an auto. I think the solid will produce solid gains with boost. I am pushing for nines with this setup then eights next season
The video is a little dark but you can hear the idle just fine. We had just returned after logging and making some adjustments with HP Tuners. This video was taken just shortly after break in and before I had ran the power tour.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wCN...ature=youtu.be
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wCN...ature=youtu.be
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From: Baton Rouge La
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How much performance value in a LLSR for a daily driver, very limited autox/HPDE vehicle where I don't want to spin it over ~6400RPM? How involved is checking/adjusting lash, and how do you know when it needs to be done?
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Joined: Nov 2003
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From: Norn Iron
It's a tricky decision for sure, and the HR's seem to work great for many too. But you also seem to read a lot of people having problems whether spring, lifter, rocker etc related.
From what I understand, HR's can actually run much more aggressive lobes, simply because there is no clearance ramp involved that is needed with a solid setup.
That said, I've opted for a SR from Kip myself. Just waiting on new pistons before I can put it all together.
I opted to go down that road because I think it offers me the best chance of achieving good reliable higher rpm usage ( ie circa 7500rpm ) vs hydraulic.
My previous engine had oil pressure issues which I know was having an effect on actual valve timing. I know it's a separate issue, but again with a solid roller I can also have peace of mind oil pressure will never effect valve opening or closing as this will be purely mechanical.
From what I understand, HR's can actually run much more aggressive lobes, simply because there is no clearance ramp involved that is needed with a solid setup.
That said, I've opted for a SR from Kip myself. Just waiting on new pistons before I can put it all together.
I opted to go down that road because I think it offers me the best chance of achieving good reliable higher rpm usage ( ie circa 7500rpm ) vs hydraulic.
My previous engine had oil pressure issues which I know was having an effect on actual valve timing. I know it's a separate issue, but again with a solid roller I can also have peace of mind oil pressure will never effect valve opening or closing as this will be purely mechanical.
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Joined: Feb 2014
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From: Baton Rouge La
I would say you would like it much better. After you set the lash. You may need to adjust it after a short brake in. What I mean by that is the new push rods ends will lap themselves into the lifter cups and the rocker cup. After that when the springs where out reset the lash. Maintance should be a non issue with the LL roller.
Thread Starter
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 328
Likes: 1
From: Baton Rouge La
It's a tricky decision for sure, and the HR's seem to work great for many too. But you also seem to read a lot of people having problems whether spring, lifter, rocker etc related.
From what I understand, HR's can actually run much more aggressive lobes, simply because there is no clearance ramp involved that is needed with a solid setup.
That said, I've opted for a SR from Kip myself. Just waiting on new pistons before I can put it all together.
I opted to go down that road because I think it offers me the best chance of achieving good reliable higher rpm usage ( ie circa 7500rpm ) vs hydraulic.
My previous engine had oil pressure issues which I know was having an effect on actual valve timing. I know it's a separate issue, but again with a solid roller I can also have peace of mind oil pressure will never effect valve opening or closing as this will be purely mechanical.
From what I understand, HR's can actually run much more aggressive lobes, simply because there is no clearance ramp involved that is needed with a solid setup.
That said, I've opted for a SR from Kip myself. Just waiting on new pistons before I can put it all together.
I opted to go down that road because I think it offers me the best chance of achieving good reliable higher rpm usage ( ie circa 7500rpm ) vs hydraulic.
My previous engine had oil pressure issues which I know was having an effect on actual valve timing. I know it's a separate issue, but again with a solid roller I can also have peace of mind oil pressure will never effect valve opening or closing as this will be purely mechanical.
With the LL Roller you can run a MUCH more aggressive lobe with out any problems. Why because the lifter is solid😄 it can take it. They are quiter than most Hyd cams because they have a smooth opening and closing ramp and the lifter can't bleed down like the Hyd's 👍
I am struggling to see the value in a SR cam in a mild LS engine. I have studied several comparisons online between both setups. On the mild combos solids never seem to gain any torque at all and only make a few horsepower at very high rpms. The examples that did show a sizable gain were ones that took a mild cam out and swapped over to very lumpy cam that was out of the range that the HR was designed to spin to. I attribute most of the gain on a SR combo to be from maintaining valve control. The gains would be even less had they used an LS engine that featured an exemely light valve train with hollow or titanium valves or the very light on the nose factory LS rockers. For a full on race motor it makes a lot more sense as the engine may exceed the valve control limits. A properly set up LS can spin pretty high before that range has been passed though. The LS3 vette in the original post could easily make the same power reliably for a whole lot of miles without spending a couple grand on a SR setup. Now I question the extra wear that will be put on the valve train. Maybe it is quieter but I just don't hear anything in my cammed vette to alarm me. I believe mine sounds like every other engine I have ever heard. To me it's a normal sound. I see many people that are really embracing the change lately but I question the value in the switch for anything other than a full on race car that is spinning to 8000rpms. If I was building a race motor with billet heads that flowed 450 cfm at .800 lift it makes a lot more since to want to run a SR with a lot of lift to exploit that setup. I just don't see the value in it on 99% of the builds on this web sight though.
I picked up both torque and horsepower when I switched to the LLR. While my cam specs did change, not enough to account for the increases in power that I gained across the board. After the cam change, my car was .02-.03 quicker in the 60', 2 tenths quicker in the 1/4 and 2 MPH faster in the 1/4". In a car that is already as quick as mine is, that is a tremendous gain. And, I shift at 6600-6800 RPM on a stock bottom end 6 liter which is certainly not an 8000 RPM purpose built race engine.
Well that's the results I have wanted to see. I wanted to believe there is something to gain but all the articles I have found online show virtually nothing. If your gaining .03 in your 60' in the same DA than there must be something there. Maybe the many articles are manipulated to not show any gains.
I saw increased power as well but even if there wasn't power increase the other benefits far outweigh the additional rocker costs, in my opinion. Adjustable rockers obviously cost more but if I remember correctly you can buy solid lifters for less then good hydraulic lifters. I am glad to see others realizing the many benefits of running a solid in the LS engine platform. The hydraulic lifter has been a troubling issue for many years especially when considering the aggressive profiles of aftermarket hydraulic cams.