pushinfreight

So what are small things that you have heard builders doing to maximize performance. I have seen where they wrap heat reflective material on air intakes or coatings for pistons. What else have people seen?

Tyler Dietzenbach

iTrader: (5)

I'm going to say something that's extremely obvious but gets overlooked by far too many...
Make sure your combo MAKES SENSE as a whole. Too many just throw heads, intakes, and cams together and expect to make good power.. but often times that combo is drug down by one of many things. The entire combo should be looked at and not just thrown together.

G Atsma

^^^^^^^BOOM!!^^^THIS!! ^^^^^^^
If EVERYBODY adhered to this bit of not-so-common sense, hot rodding screwups would be a rare item. And we'd have a lot more faster AND more efficient cars.

pushinfreight

So let's assume head size, cam size and displacement are all right. What other so called tricks do you see builders do to get that extra little performance gains. For example I have heard about "knife edging" cranks to shed oil quicker as they spin. I have also heard of people putt mylar under the intake to reflect heat away from the incoming air charge. Things like this. There has to be some racing guys here that can tell us some things we can do for that extra 5 hp.

G Atsma

Meticulous detailing of ports in manifolds and heads- remove all casting/machining imperfections
Careful shaping of the backs of valve heads for best flow
Most "tricks" are more about attention to detail than trickery

wretched73

The pros put in countless hours and invest tons of money to find out how to squeak out 5 hp more than their competition on an equivalent setup. Those secrets are not given out for free on a public forum.

pdxmotorhead

The last 1% increase in the result, is 80% of the budget..

Che70velle

iTrader: (6)

This. All day. I’ve got a lot of time and money invested in this type of stuff that can’t be shared for free. There are a lot of obvious things that if you pay close attention to details in builds and even reading articles or tv shows, you’ll pick up on some things. I’ll say this much for free here, as I’ve said it before. Balancing an assembly with a GOOD shop…meaning expensive equipment and pricing to go with that…will pick you up some power. Bearing clearances setup to run a thinner oil will make a few ponies. Driveline friction reduction and weight reduction are both priceless.

RedXray

Especially in racing...

NASCAR's first All Star race 1985 (non points race) Darrell Waltrip grenades the engine while taking the checkered flag. Coincidence, was he cheating or maybe hiding some of Junior Johnson's engine secrets from leaking out? I was at the track that day and it was clear he pushed in the clutch and BOOM! The next day Darrell won the Coca Cola 600.

Same All Star race 2011 (non points race) Carl Edwards dominates the field taking the checkered flag then shoots through the infield grass smashing the car head on into the wall. After the race he claimed he hit a man hole cover that sent him into the wall. NASCAR after inspecting said there was no man hole cover nor any other obstacles in the grass. The front end was mangled and probably hiding some sweet "innovation" Jack Roush wanted to keep from NASCAR and fellow competitors.

Che70velle

iTrader: (6)

The gentleman who I worked for in the early 90’s doing the development work for Cup shops, also ran Cup himself. In 1978, he was behind Cale Yarborough at Daytona…not sure if it was the 500 or the Firecracker…when Cale absolutely exploded an engine. Cale dropped down quick, yellow came out, and the race went on as usual. After the race, Jim (the guy who owned the R&D shop) went over to Cales garage stall and asked him what he thought broke. Cale replied “we broke the rods out of it”. Jim said “rods…you think more than one let go”? Cale replied “yeah, we broke at least 7 of them. We were experimenting with Carbon Fiber rods”. Again…this was 1978. That’s cool!
Lots of stuff goes on as you spoke about. I’ve seen guys doing victory do-nuts after the race, purposely swing the car out tooo wide and tag the barrier to push the rear end housing over because it was setup illegally and pre-race tech didn’t catch it. Others as you mentioned, mysteriously lose an engine at the end, or just before the end of the race…leading or not…because of experimental parts inside the engine. Multi-car teams doing their own on-track R&D stuff. Push the clutch in and grenade it. In the end, the teams got data.
The big teams payed millions upon millions for power. Shoot…in ‘91, we had multi-million dollar contracts with teams to find power…over 30 years ago. Man I’m getting old.

pdxmotorhead

"He who reads the rules thoroughly, finds the most opportunity" I've found a lot of speed in the SCCA rule book.. Since 1999.

NSFW

I'm a little surprised the organizers don't add a rule that disqualifies anyone who doesn't bring an intact car to a post-race inspection.

pdxmotorhead

Its nascar.. LOL They have dinged teams in the past but its 1 click from being reality TV these days.. Which is sad because driving a oval at 200 MPH in a tank like a stock car takes some skills, many F1 drivers have tried and couldn't do it.. But "spec" cars do take a lot of the fun out.. I love the prototype classes in Lemans/American Lemans. Build it and race it, has to sorta look like a car and have a driver.

Che70velle

iTrader: (6)

Well said sir.

LLLosingit

iTrader: (4)

I thought more boost was the answer...it seems to work for most people.
Seriously, Unless you are hunting every last HP just getting the combination of parts that compliment each other is most important....reduce weight....oh almost forgot and add more boost

jhshnh

One simple thing I see on here all the time is low hp from poor assembly. Specifically valvetrain geometry. Not setting up your valvetrain with proper clearance and correct measurements is something everyone especially beginners can prevent. Best of all… it’s practically free!
But how many times have we seen on this forum over the years where a guy buys expensive valvetrain and heads then can’t get the power out of it because he just threw it together.

pdxmotorhead

And DEGREE the darn camshaft.. I've seen soooo many of them out of time,, had marks incorrectly stamped, were using a mismatch set etc..

G Atsma

True..... however I understand cam quality is much better now than 30 years ago due to CNC machinery that affords far better precision in accurate cam timing/clocking.

AwesomeAuto

Its absurd how much extra power can be found in small things.
Even if race teams and various pros wanted to share this info, it wouldn't necessarily matter for most. They would be wasting their tame.
What they used to gain 25 HP through improved oil control at 8500+ RPM while going through corners or pulling 4+Gs in a straight line is not going to apply to most others.

02EBC5Z06

iTrader: (1)

Agreed, I had the front cover off the motor a couple years ago doing some cleanup work and such, I asked Tooley if I should degree the cam to squeeze any more out of it, he told me it wouldn't be worth it.