ya, im pretty sure on the first cam discussion it was stated the tr224 lobe fell in the middle of the XE and XE-R.

 

.006 - .050 - .200
276* - 224* - 144*

Ed

 

and thats which one; TR or Comp?

if TR used the same 224 lobe the tr230 reverse split as the 224 single pattern i've got a doctor that reads

.006: 274.6
.050: 224
.200: 143.6

 

Hmm that's TR's 224 isn't it?

Comps looks something like 224 142 277 - .05 .2 adv

 

So that would be 50.6 variation and would indicate it's between XE/53 and XE-R/49

BTW JRP, QUIT POSTING AND GO PUT YOUR TRANNY IN

 

ok all, here I go!!!! I am by no means an expert in cam design or an engineer. But, I have had some education over the years from people who are engineers in the aircraft and automotive industry!!! However, I am ASE certified Master Tech and A toyota advance master tech with about 15 years of automotive experience and training.

When doing anything.....you need to have a plan, a since of direction, or a goal in mind!! If not all of the above. You got to be reasonable, realistic, and budget minded.......especially when picking a cam for your ride. I agree that alot of members here on the board have a cam that is to big for the combo that they're running.

Here is the quick and dirty method that I have been shown to get me close to selecting the correct cam!!!

1. How much power do you want? Be reasonable!!! Do I have to worry about emissions? Is it a daily driver, street/strip, or race? And is mileage important to you?

2. Small duration cams ususally are good low end cams...no power gains in upper rpms. Medium duration cams are shifting the power band into the mid range...slight loss in low end and slight gain in top end. Large duration cams are topend power...with a loss of low end to medium range power.

3. What is weight of the car? gearing? tire size I'm running? Stick or Auto? Converter needs to match the peak torque of the cam....converter/cam selection is even more important then a stick!!! Put all of this on a Excel speard sheet with rpm vs speed with the gearing all figured in....include the tire size too. Then look at the rpm you plan on shifting at.....and look up the speed of the car at that rpm.....then go to the next gear....find the speed vs rpm and now you have a good idea were the engine rpm will be when you shift into the next gear. Most stick cars are not setup to keep the rpm consistent at every shift...it verys some what...here is an example of my cars setup!!!

I plan at shifting at 6200 rpm in my car! Here is the car...I'm running a 3.27 rear diff. with 23" tall tires with a M6 gear box. The car weighs 2600lbs. so I knew traction was going to be a problem with 4.10's, 3.73's, and 3.55's .....that's why I went to a 3.27 gear. I wanted a slightly taller first gear to help with torque reduction to help with pull away. This is a street car that will go to the track every now and then....and some autoX and road course use. When I put everything on the excel sheet....I got 48.77 mph at 6200rpm....in second gear it puts me at 4100rpm at 48mph....then at 6200 rpm in second gear...its at 73mph....I look over to third gear and I'm at 4550rpm at 73 mph....then at 6200 rpm in third gear I'm at 100mph....shift to 4th gear and I'm at 4750 rpm at 100 mph. My gear spread is pretty wide so I need a cam that starts it torque peak at 4k and takes me to 6.2k.....however the cam I chose has a little over rev built into it too.....if I needed to hold the shift. It holds onto its peak hp for about 300 to 400 rpm. This may help the car too in the 1/4 mile too. The cam is at its peak...but doesn't nose over hard like some other peaky cams. This allows me to get alittle higher in the power band between shifts. I hope this example helps with how important your cam selection is.

Using the example above or a spread sheet of your cars gearing to rpm combo......now you have a good idea of the power band you need to select....this is were you need to find out more about the cams that are out there. Where do they make peak torque and hp......get copies of dyno runs that are properly tuned.....remember to look at the combos they used to get that power too.. Another example:

On a full bolt on and stock engine Cam A: may make peak 375tq at 4200rpm and 380 hp at 5800 rpm. Now you throw a set of afr 205 heads and the torque peak may be 390tq at 4400rpm and 405 hp at 6400rpm. The area under the curve may be different too. REMEMBER ANY CHANGE IN THE COMBO WILL AFFECT YOUR OUTCOME.... Positive or negative.

4. What type of engine are you using? Stock? Stroker? etc.? What type of heads are you using? Stock? ported stock? Cnc ported heads? Get the flow numbers!!!!! This helps the cam designer to take more advantage of your combo!!! What type of intake and exhaust are you using? All of these will affect your cam selection!!!

5. If you can answer the ?'s above and stick too it.....then I recommended calling the venders and sharing the info that you have answered and get there recommendations!!! I would also ask some of the members here that are cam designers
if you want something even closer to what your combo needs to build you a cam...it may be worth the extra money if you're caught in between the cams that are out there by the venders.

6. A recap of all of the above: What do want to do with your car? How much power do you need and where do you need that powerband to be? What type of engine combo are you going to run? How much money do have to spend? Look for the best bang for the buck!! Bigger is not better....and match combo is!!!! The devil is in the details!!!! I've seen only a few guys out there that run really good on only a few parts added......and have seen lots of people spend lots of money and run close to the numbers the few guys who got there combo dailed in.

7. Go to a book store....there's a lot of books on cams/heads designs and combo's that work. The more info you can get the better......also the more ?'s you have too!!!!


I hope these examples help with selecting a cam that will come closer to what you really need....and not a cam that is a dyno queen!!!!

 

I think my question had too many variables... weight, gearing, etc are all a factor. Plus, there is the fact that for answers like that one often has to pay and test to find out...

 

The new comp lobes I spoke of earlier. Anyone car to shed any light on them.

Lobe#, Dur. @ .006", .050", .200", & Lift w/1.7 rocker
2124 265 215 142 .629"
2125 269 219 145 .632"
2126 273 223 149 .636"
2127 277 227 153 .639"
2128 281 231 156 .643"
2129 285 235 160 .646"
2130 289 239 164 .649"
2131 293 243 168 .653"
2132 297 247 171 .656"
2133 301 251 175 .660"
2134 305 255 179 .663"
2135 309 259 183 .663"
2136 313 263 186 .663"

 

Where did you find these at? Are they on the catalog?

 

2005 Master Lobe Catalog


Ed

 

Have you had any experience with these? I spoke with Geoff at Thunder about them but no one else has really talked about these yet. One of our memebers, Grannyshifting, on eastern fbody and a member of this board as well posted the lobe information. I do not have a new master catalog but one of the old ones.

 

I bet those lobes would make some great power in the right combination. You don't see to many cams here w/ 215 duration at .05 that have a peak lift of 629. Obviously a hell of alot more duration at higher valve lift.

 

I am putting in a 239/246 .649"/.613" 106lsa 106icl cam in with the intake lobe. I have home ported heads but I bet some nice ls6 2.5 heads would make some killer power with these lobes. I will be sure to dyno and make some passes at the strip.

 

I would immagine so, not like what I would call "Daily Driver"

SD tuning??

 

I haven't made up my mind one hundred percent yet. I do have a 12" section of 4" high temp silicon hose though if I can't get the maf to work. I have 5.3 litre heads that have been cut .030" to give me around 11.6 to 1, after my flycuts in the stock pistons, compression which my help me fight reversion a little. Should be interesting.

 

Keep us posted and get a VID so we can all see this beast "Shake, Rattle and Roll"

 

I don't know how to get a vid up but do have the ability to get the video with a digital cam. With your guys help I will do so. It will be with open headers though.

 

.................................

 

I have a question.

Which given duration is the most important? It seems some don't feel the duration @ .05 is as crucial as advertised or say, .200.

Why is this? Is it a matter of flow?

For example

Take a camshaft that has:
270* of duration @ .006
200* of duration @ .050


Now the other camshaft has:
260* of duration @ .006
210* of duration @ .050

Pretending the rest of the lobes are identical, which lobe will bring in more air, or release if we were comparing exhaust lobes?

Tell me if this doesn't make sense what-so-ever. I'm just looking to be edjumacated.

 

Just a question from someone that isn't all that well versed in camshafts. It seems that through all of these posts there is a common assumption. That assumption seems to be that rocker arms have a constant ratio. That doesn't seem possible since the pushrod seat end traverses a tighter arc than the valve tip end. According to a knowledgeable friend in Orlando, the LS1 rockers start to open the valve at a 1.54 ratio and finally get to a 1.69 ratio at .300" lobe lift. Since valve lift=lobe lift x rocker ratio; it seems that this is all sort of useless unless you know exactly where the valve really is. This same friend says that some well-respected shaft mount systems he has checked start the valve off the seat as low as 1.47:1. Could this be why some "supposedly" high ratio rockers do not show much of a horse power improvement and others do? If I'm wrong on this, please 'splain-it to me!!