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For those who want big nasty cams with lots of lift, etc...

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Old 10-02-2003, 06:00 PM   #21
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Default Re: For those who want big nasty cams with lots of lift, etc...

Will the Ti valves beat the seats up faster due to their hardness?
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Old 10-03-2003, 08:23 AM   #22
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Default Re: For those who want big nasty cams with lots of lift, etc...

No, in fact for Ti valves it is best to use a BeC valve seat. They shed heat better, and they take abuse better than a steel seat.
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Old 10-03-2003, 09:28 AM   #23
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Default Re: For those who want big nasty cams with lots of lift, etc...

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Thats my whole deal, I think you can use a stock lifter, and a 918 with any of the cams currently out (even the really big ones) if the rest of the valvetrain is light enough. Say a Ti retainer, and either a NaK filled steel valve or a Ti valve...
That seems to me to be true by definition. The question is whether the rest of the valve train can be made light enough and whether one can afford it.
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Old 10-03-2003, 09:44 AM   #24
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Default Re: For those who want big nasty cams with lots of lift, etc...

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Thats my whole deal, I think you can use a stock lifter, and a 918 with any of the cams currently out (even the really big ones) if the rest of the valvetrain is light enough. Say a Ti retainer, and either a NaK filled steel valve or a Ti valve...
Absolutely dead nuts spot-on.

Now, here's the question, and folks like Comp better know the answer, and I would appreciate them publicizing it for once and for all.

What, SPECIFICALLY, is that valvetrain mass?

PS - this is exactly how GM designs springs.
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Old 10-03-2003, 11:50 AM   #25
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Default Re: For those who want big nasty cams with lots of lift, etc...

very informitive post j-rod, thanks for all that info...very interesting reading material
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Old 10-03-2003, 03:56 PM   #26
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Default Re: For those who want big nasty cams with lots of lift, etc...

J-Rod, heck of a post, top man! I've printed it for future reference.
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Old 10-17-2005, 12:08 PM   #27
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TTT for new forum
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Old 10-17-2005, 10:26 PM   #28
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Old 10-18-2005, 01:22 AM   #29
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Has anyone found affordable Ti/NaK valves since then? I know the market value for those has to have dropped at least a bit. Or maybe, has anyone found a lighter and more affordable valvetrain combo that has worked well for them? If so, what was the combo, from cam specs to the type of retainers used?
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Old 10-18-2005, 02:00 AM   #30
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Since ti prices have gone up, they might be even more now.
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Old 10-18-2005, 09:12 AM   #31
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Good info....you should note the first part of that is a quote from David Reher of Reher-Morrison.
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Old 10-18-2005, 10:25 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PacerX
There are a few things I really wish for in this life:

First being a properly designed spring, spec'd out to the point of...

a. Maximum valvetrain mass
b. Maximum rpm for a given valvetrain mass
c. Most aggressive lobe profile possible
d. Maximum lift

Then you could have a (fairly) simple chart...

If your valvetrain weighs "x", then the maximum lift becomes "y", your max reliable rpm becomes "z" using lobe profile "a" at lift "b".

This is the type of issue that bothers the hell out of me. If ANYONE actually did their homework while designing springs, they HAD TO go through this process.

Otherwise, they're just shooting in the dark.

Sadly, most of the aftermarket shoots in the dark.


Just like pushrods. There ought to be a dmaned chart out there that says:

Deck the head .010, go to a .020 smaller base circle cam, with stock lifters and stock thickness gaskets and "Brand "x" rockers and your correct pushrod length is "y".

Holy hell. Somebody get GM to give me the CAD model and I'll calculate it out.
I'd like to see something like this
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Old 11-05-2005, 01:16 PM   #33
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What a great thread. I found it during my quest to learn which cams would deliver the kind of performance gains I want while maintaining reasonable valve train stability/dynamics/geometry. IE I want good "steetable" performance and low wear.

I see there's much more to it than just picking the right cam.

To do it right, I guess I'd be looking at using light weight valves, harder valve seats, strong valve springs with quality retaining hardware, and maybe even better lifters.

But since my desire is not to have an insane high RPM drag car, like most of you madmen lol, I may not need all the stuff I listed above. Nevertheless, excellent info in this thread.

Props!!!

...back to lurking and learning about cams. ....hmmm ramp rates, durations, lift, lsa

Last edited by ShevrolayZ28; 11-05-2005 at 01:21 PM.
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Old 11-05-2005, 01:36 PM   #34
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excellent read. i'll have to go back and re-read it as i skimmed through it. A lot of it was myth I always questioned.

One thing I'm glad to hear is that the mass/spring/damper systems I studied in differential equations is true! In reading your write up, I flashed back to diff eq. mY'' + dY' + KY = F(t). sweet.


One question: consrvation of every. Takes energy (gas) to compress the spring. where does it go when its decompressing?

For example, losses to compress a mixture in a cylinder are typicaly not taken into the pumping loss concideration because aside from the heat loss- it is regained durring expansion. Whats going on with this spring. I like convervation laws, they make things easy. Cancel out = good.

Last edited by treyZ28; 11-05-2005 at 01:42 PM.
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Old 11-05-2005, 01:47 PM   #35
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On a side and somewhat related note:
I've noticed a terrible tendancy for people to make poor camshaft selections.
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Old 11-05-2005, 02:06 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by treyZ28
On a side and somewhat related note:
I've noticed a terrible tendancy for people to make poor camshaft selections.
Yes. And I see a good number of lifter problems popping up lately for guys with high ramp rate cams (most of the latest and greatest performing cams).

And your differential calculus? Don't go there! The sping and dash pot problems...yuck!
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Old 11-06-2005, 04:24 PM   #37
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Ferrea makes hollow stem valves for the LSx

http://www.ferrea.com/catalog/2004Domestic.pdf

Page 26. I got a quote from a LS1tech vendor for $32 a piece.
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Old 11-06-2005, 09:41 PM   #38
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Anyone have experience with them, especially with high duration/lift cams (such as 24x/24x and low .6xx lifts) and dual springs?
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Old 11-07-2005, 07:09 PM   #39
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When does lift enter into the picture? My cam has .608/.612 lift using XER lobes. I'm running Ferrea dual valve springs with stock lifters and spin it up to 7K. It has ferrea 2.055/1.575 valves.

From what I've read, the 918s don't have enough seat pressure or can handle the lift.

Last edited by 04Yukonxl; 11-07-2005 at 07:25 PM.
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Old 11-07-2005, 07:27 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by treyZ28
On a side and somewhat related note:
I've noticed a terrible tendancy for people to make poor camshaft selections.
Just to educate me, on what basis did you make this comment? What do you consider to be a poor camshaft selection?
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